Little Busters ~Refrain~ - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[BloodyKitty]

A great compilation of all hints and foreshadowing for the Secret of the World in both seasons, with explanation. Read it to see how many things you might have missed.

I do have something to say about this adaptation, but judging from the overall reactions to the recent episodes, I will hold off my thoughts until the end, so nothing hurts.

[~Yami~]

egh... Keys... why you are so cruel???
why should you separated them???

too much feels... and bromance as well
I think Riki only saying he's in love with Rin once.... once to Masato... and lastly countless times to Kyousuke

aaahhh too much tears... damn
and Rin still clueless

[Crashmaking Zoomatic]

Is something wrong with me if I didn't bawl? I mean, I usually have over all of the Key's 'big scenes', and while LB isn't really as sad as most of them in the first place, when I played this scene in the VN, it managed to get to me once Kengo broke down. But even then, it wasn't -too- bad, and I quickly regained composure after Kyousuke finished up his speech. For someone who's always been super emotional, it feels weird to barely have even wet eyes in the anime version..maybe I've just grown a really tough skin...

Still great episode, though!

[MartianMage]

I didn’t like how Rin was almost irrelevant this episode. Like she almost never spoke for herself and she just did what she was told to do…

[BloodyKitty]

Originally Posted by MartianMage

I didn’t like how Rin was almost irrelevant this episode. Like she almost never spoke for herself and she just did what she was told to do…

To be honest, Rin always seems dull to me compared to the other characters, but I admit she does have good development overall the 2 seasons. That's why her inability to do anything this episode just kind of make me upset. Masato and Kengo are two close childhood friends to her, her reactions should be more extreme than that.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Crashmaking Zoomatic

Is something wrong with me if I didn't bawl? I mean, I usually have over all of the Key's 'big scenes', and while LB isn't really as sad as most of them in the first place, when I played this scene in the VN, it managed to get to me once Kengo broke down. But even then, it wasn't -too- bad, and I quickly regained composure after Kyousuke finished up his speech. For someone who's always been super emotional, it feels weird to barely have even wet eyes in the anime version..maybe I've just grown a really tough skin...

Still great episode, though!

This episode never made me cry either. Nonetheless, it was a very good climatic episode for the story it was telling. On the whole, it handled the emotions of the characters very well. Kyousuke's big moment near the end was definitely a great one in that regard.

The thing with this climax, as some of us have pointed out in recent weeks, is that it was telegraphed and heavily foreshadowed. And so I was very mentally prepared for it. That makes it less likely that I'm going to be moved to tears.

Another factor is that, even by Key's standards, this is very supernatural. The sadder moments in Clannad, and some of the sadder moments in Kanon, felt a bit more like very sad times you could conceivably encounter in the real world, so perhaps they hit home a bit harder for me.

I suspect what might make me cry is next episode. I'm thinking we're going to see Riki and Rin in the real world, trying to cope with their great loss. Now that might hit home for me, because that sort of sad tragedy is something you can find in the real world.


Still, this episode was expertly executed and hit all the right emotional notes. With one possible exception - That being Rin. I do get the criticisms that MartianMage and BloodyKitty are making about how her character was handled here.

I suspect this is largely a medium-based perspective issue. With most VNs, you take on the role of a particular character, and see everything through his or her eyes. Based on the anime, LB! appears to be no exception, with Riki being this character. So interactions between two other characters in the VN can get short-changed a bit. And perhaps that's what we're seeing reflected here in this anime.

[AC-Phoenix]

Now that the episode is over and they didn't reveal it...
Why was Kyousuke on the same bus as them, while being in another grade oO?

As for Rin...

Rin aquired a new title - Total obliviousness

Going from the next episode title and Clannad next episode will probably bring forth the happy end.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Now that the episode is over and they didn't reveal it...
Why was Kyousuke on the same bus as them, while being in another grade oO?

I believe it'll be explained next episode...not sure.
But if not, it was in the VN so a VN player will likely explain it then.

[BloodyKitty]

Actually there has been changes to some characters' actions that was done to go well with the anime (like Kud's reaction to Kanata in the first season, or Kurugaya's ending). If they do have that good attention to details to add and modify scenes to make the anime work, then I think they could have done it here with Rin. A bit of a pity.

[Magicflier]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Now that the episode is over and they didn't reveal it...
Why was Kyousuke on the same bus as them, while being in another grade oO?

Originally Posted by Randrak42

I believe it'll be explained next episode...not sure.
But if not, it was in the VN so a VN player will likely explain it then.

It's in the visual novel, but it's very likely it'll be revealed in the last episode. It'll also tell you about why Haruka was together with them in the bus as well, despite being from another class. You can easily guess Haruka's reason why she escaped her own class though... Rewatch the first season if you don't remember.

[Julio C]

Originally Posted by Crashmaking Zoomatic

Is something wrong with me if I didn't bawl? I mean, I usually have over all of the Key's 'big scenes', and while LB isn't really as sad as most of them in the first place, when I played this scene in the VN, it managed to get to me once Kengo broke down. But even then, it wasn't -too- bad, and I quickly regained composure after Kyousuke finished up his speech. For someone who's always been super emotional, it feels weird to barely have even wet eyes in the anime version..maybe I've just grown a really tough skin...

Still great episode, though!

Same here, it was just never to Kanon or Clannad standards, those sad scenes on those shows wanted to make me cry, but no this show. I guess it's just as the other poster said, it's just too supernatural which is harder to relate. It was still a great episode.

So we will see the real world on the next episode and perhaps the actual crash scene?

[Narzia]

This reminds me, can we expect an actual explanation for the Unlimited Masato Works scene at this point in time or did the anime completely gloss over it?
Because that's one of the few things I actually can't make sense of.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Narzia

This reminds me, can we expect an actual explanation for the Unlimited Masato Works scene at this point in time or did the anime completely gloss over it?
Because that's one of the few things I actually can't make sense of.

The anime kind of glossed over it, but I'll explain in spoiler tag just in case (It really isn't a spoiler).

Spoiler:

Kyousuke basically altered the world to F with masato and reawaken his childhood trauma. He set Masato up as a trial for Riki to overcome.

[Magicflier]

Originally Posted by Narzia

This reminds me, can we expect an actual explanation for the Unlimited Masato Works scene at this point in time or did the anime completely gloss over it?
Because that's one of the few things I actually can't make sense of.

Please read the compilation that BloodyKitty linked from above here, and please share it to others who keep asking the same questions. It would be appreciated:

Originally Posted by BloodyKitty

A great compilation of all hints and foreshadowing for the Secret of the World in both seasons, with explanation. Read it to see how many things you might have missed.

[Dark Faith]

Originally Posted by Crashmaking Zoomatic

Is something wrong with me if I didn't bawl? I mean, I usually have over all of the Key's 'big scenes', and while LB isn't really as sad as most of them in the first place, when I played this scene in the VN, it managed to get to me once Kengo broke down. But even then, it wasn't -too- bad, and I quickly regained composure after Kyousuke finished up his speech. For someone who's always been super emotional, it feels weird to barely have even wet eyes in the anime version..maybe I've just grown a really tough skin...

Still great episode, though!

Surprisingly, I was the other way around. Key drama™ scenes in Air, Kanon and Clannad never got a reaction out of me. I didn't cry in Little Busters either, but after going through Refrain I felt genuinely sad for these guys.

True, there's a lot of Key magic™ in LB, way more than usual, but what got me was the fact that we were dealing with a group of childhood friends (the original little busters, I couldn't care less for the girls ) that had to come to terms with their "fun days" being over and having to say their goodbyes instead of the typical heroine you met a couple weeks/months ago and happens to have a tragic backstory.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Dark Faith

Surprisingly, I was the other way around. Key drama™ scenes in Air, Kanon and Clannad never got a reaction out of me. I didn't cry in Little Busters either, but after going through Refrain I felt genuinely sad for these guys.

True, there's a lot of Key magic™ in LB, way more than usual, but what got me was the fact that we were dealing with a group of childhood friends (the original little busters, I couldn't care less for the girls ) that had to come to terms with their "fun days" being over and having to say their goodbyes instead of the typical heroine you met a couple weeks/months ago and happens to have a tragic backstory.

I'm pretty much in this camp. I love Kanon, but you can really tell which routes were Maeda (Makoto especially) and it was the subtler Hisaya stuff that really got to me. Clannad just generally had too many push-button "cry now" moments to be really affecting.

LB, now... I know it's mostly a Maeda composition but there'a an innocence and purity to it that makes it far more powerful than Clannad. It feels as if these tears are much more well-earned, and the themes of the story - for all the magical realism - are incredibly universal.

[elior]

it just my guess but i have a feeling rin will discover everything in the next episode becouse of the episode title

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Dark Faith

True, there's a lot of Key magic™ in LB, way more than usual, but what got me was the fact that we were dealing with a group of childhood friends (the original little busters, I couldn't care less for the girls ) that had to come to terms with their "fun days" being over and having to say their goodbyes instead of the typical heroine you met a couple weeks/months ago and happens to have a tragic backstory.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

LB, now... I know it's mostly a Maeda composition but there'a an innocence and purity to it that makes it far more powerful than Clannad. It feels as if these tears are much more well-earned, and the themes of the story - for all the magical realism - are incredibly universal.

I understand and respect that you're both trying to convey why you found this episode so effective, but still, some of the criticisms being made here aren't ones that I think are fair or accurate to make of Clannad (Kanon, maybe).

Spoiler for Clannad comparisons:

Nagisa was steadily developed into a much deeper character than just "a typical heroine you met a couple weeks/months ago and happens to have a tragic backstory". This criticism probably applies to some Key heroines, but not Nagisa, and most of the sadder moments in Clannad are tied to her.

I also think that Clannad: After Story is quite innocent, pure, and universal in the story and themes that it presents. At least in its second half.

[Crashmaking Zoomatic]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I understand and respect that you're both trying to convey why you found this episode so effective, but still, some of the criticisms being made here aren't ones that I think are fair or accurate to make of Clannad (Kanon, maybe).

Spoiler for Clannad comparisons:

Nagisa was steadily developed into a much deeper character than just "a typical heroine you met a couple weeks/months ago and happens to have a tragic backstory". This criticism probably applies to some Key heroines, but not Nagisa, and most of the sadder moments in Clannad are tied to her.

I also think that Clannad: After Story is quite innocent, pure, and universal in the story and themes that it presents. At least in its second half.

Spoiler for Clannad:

I'll have to agree on that front, since Clannad is probably still my favorite out of all the Key works. I think Nagisa is a character that really develops, and it's a joy to watch, making her my favorite Key-character. I think Clannad was bogged down with a lot of extraneous stuff, though, but I won't go into that now. Maybe button-pushing melodrama just really works for me (my buttons are easily pushed, I guess...)!

That aside, Little Busters is more of a celebration of life than anything else, to me, and even though these characters all have their lives tragically cut short, their fulfillment is satisfying. The regret's hit hard, but also as Triple said, everything's been pretty telegraphed up to this point, so that helps. But as a climax, yes, it was great, and I can't look forward to the last two episodes! It might still squeeze tears out of me yet!

[BloodyKitty]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I understand and respect that you're both trying to convey why you found this episode so effective, but still, some of the criticisms being made here aren't ones that I think are fair or accurate to make of Clannad (Kanon, maybe).

Spoiler for Clannad comparisons:

Nagisa was steadily developed into a much deeper character than just "a typical heroine you met a couple weeks/months ago and happens to have a tragic backstory". This criticism probably applies to some Key heroines, but not Nagisa, and most of the sadder moments in Clannad are tied to her.

I also think that Clannad: After Story is quite innocent, pure, and universal in the story and themes that it presents. At least in its second half.

Spoiler for some things related to Clannad:

I really agree with your point here. Even when Nagisa is not my most favorite female in the entire cast, it's her character development and her importance to the story that makes Clannad AS so effective. To this day I still consider her the best main heroine of all Key works.

Also, I do think the theme presented in Clannad AS's latter half is relatable to many people and it was handled exceptionally well (before that ending, at least). It did not work for some, but it did work for so many people.

Regarding LB, I do agree at the places this season does well, but there are things that keep me from enjoying it to the fullest feelings like others. I can't pinpoint exactly what bothers me, but I frankly admit through previous I don't think the characters engaged me enough for me to care about them like I did with other Key works, except for Kyousuke this season at least.