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View Poll Results: Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 24 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 11 | 22.45% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 20 | 40.82% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 13 | 26.53% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 3 | 6.12% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 2.04% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 2.04% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll |
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2013-03-16, 23:43 | Link #41 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Austria
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Kiroumaru's honest, now, because he's got nothing left to lose, and in this situation, he's better off if the kids trust him. He is more "honourable" than Yakomaru in the sense that he understands the value of honesty and collaboration. I'm pretty sure Yakomaru thinks of other people in terms of risks and behaviour probablility. Let me put it his way: Kiroumaru plays poker; Yakomaru plays chess. The former assesses the opponent more, the latter assesses the board. It's not a perfect analogy, but that's the impression I get. |
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2013-03-17, 00:15 | Link #42 | |
Hiding Under Your Bed
Join Date: May 2008
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Did you get your account hacked?
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2013-03-17, 01:11 | Link #43 | |
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And whatever you think of Yakomaru, he also is honest when he feels that is the most pragmatic thing to be. Kiroumaru's admittance here really cuts down on significant differences between him and Yakomaru. Yes, there are still some differences there, but Kiroumaru is no longer as compelling/interesting an antithesis to Yakomaru as what he was before this episode, in my view. To be fair, Kiroumaru is still a very good character. But I liked the sharp contrast between him and Yakomaru, and this reveal dulls it a bit, imo. Yes, there are times I like idealistic heroes, to be sure. But I don't think that blends well with the "Murphy's Law" narrative we have here. Everything that could go wrong does go wrong... until Saki throws caution completely to the wind, and puts her heart ahead of everything. That's the vibe I'm getting right now. My suspicion is that Saki is going to "win big" in the finale (well, win as much as is possible given the tragedy that has already occurred, anyway). To me, it's like you have this mature, balls-to-the-wall story that pulls no punches... and then decides to have an ending that's downright shounen-esque in its "love and friendship conquers all!" vibe. It's a bit too sugary even for me. I could well be wrong here of course, but I have a strong gut instinct that Saki wins big next episode.
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2013-03-17, 03:14 | Link #44 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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Just because both of them wanted a countermeasure against the humans doesn't mean they are the least bit similar.
Kiroumaru wants to preserve the safety of his fellow man. Squealer wants to preserve his own safety even at the cost of his own fellow man. It doesn't have anything to do with how honest they are. |
2013-03-17, 06:46 | Link #47 | ||
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Like it or not, it makes them more similar. Quote:
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2013-03-17, 06:56 | Link #48 |
Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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In that particular case, he placed the mission ahead of losing a good portion of his fellows, but that was specifically stated to be unusual for him in episode 23. Inui said that "A single loss of life would normally prompt Kiroumaru to retreat immediately. Something very important must have motivated him to keep exploring at the cost of a third of his force. ".
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2013-03-17, 07:13 | Link #49 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Do you actually think if the situation was reversed he would tell them the truth? Even in the queen situation he told them only after he could not hide the truth and he still tried to make excuses. Kiromaru told them the truth and made no excuses. Quote:
No Kiroumaru isn't a yes man to the humans but that is not what made him different from Yakomaru.
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2013-03-17, 07:14 | Link #50 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United States of America
Age: 32
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I don't have much time atm so I shall leave it at that for now
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2013-03-17, 08:04 | Link #51 | |||||
DRRR!!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Netherlands
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> Yakomaru doing exactly that is different. You seem to have mixed feudalism and democratcy a bit. Also blind presumptuous Yakomaru hate has gotten rather dull. All the cool kids are hating Saki now for being offensively girly in the face of adversity. |
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2013-03-17, 08:10 | Link #52 |
zutto soba ni ite ne
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Kinoumaru admitted about searching WDM in Tokyo before because he knew that Saki and Satoru believe in co-existence of queerats and humans. He wouldn't tell that if Inui was there. It is true that Yokomaru and Kinoumaru share the same views on humans but if human and queerats have to strive for peaceful co-existence, the suitable leader will be Kinoumaru who is not cunning and honest. But thanks to the Yokomaru revolution, even if it is failed, human have to surrender their God-like status and acknowledge that rats are no longer inferior beings.
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2013-03-17, 09:39 | Link #53 |
DRRR!!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Netherlands
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The thing is: their co-coexistence was already peaceful. Sure the occasional odd colony was wiped out for 'obscure' reasons and then there was that whole defiance means death thing-y going on. But just killing Yakomaru, neutralizing the threat posed by Maria & Mamouru's lovechild, ending the revolt and going back to the way things were while minding Kiroumaru's feelings a bit more won't change anything for the better. And what we have here with the ancien régime killed off and the balance of power slightly in the queerats' favor is a once in a lifetime opportunity for reform.
(In the end Yakomaru's brave and defiant struggle might be what will save humanity from slowly withering away and going extinct.) And some thoughts on perspective. Considering honesty and straightforwardness desired traits could be rephrased as to consider simple predictability a desired trait. Being predictable is being boring and uninteresting. Predictability in my view can only be as desired trait in people you either don't care for or people you hope to control or manipulate. If that's what Saki needs or thinks she wants, they could just kill Kiroumaru and replace him with some scaredy cat figurehead that's not a war hungry wolf-rat-lion. Fact is: the humans need someone or something to keep their arrogant and genocidal tendencies in check, it might be a bit much to extend their genetic programming to enforce nonviolence against queerats, just jet but something has to happen for this not to happen again. |
2013-03-17, 10:21 | Link #54 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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I don't find anything "brave" about Yakomaru. He stayed mostly hidden during this whole campaign never risking his own life but being okay with risking the life of his men.
The only reason he came out this time is because his trump card was on the line and he had no other choice.
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2013-03-17, 10:44 | Link #55 | |||||||||
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Yakomaru has told the truth at times before. He has told the truth about very troubling matters (such as what was done to his Queen).
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2013-03-17 at 10:56. |
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2013-03-17, 11:00 | Link #56 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Kiroumaru and Yakomaru/Squealer are opposites, but not as much in their relationship with humans, as in their personality and most importantly in their worldview - they should address this in the next episode (at least I hope they will). But in any case I think it's beyond dispute that of the two of them Kiroumaru is the more noble and respectable one. On the other hand, I think it's worth noting that Squealer has his own side of the story that we haven't fully heard yet. Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-03-17 at 11:11. |
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2013-03-17, 11:07 | Link #57 | |
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Yakomaru and Kiroumaru both had good reasons for prioritizing their own survival in recent instances of doing so. They're both pragmatic in that way. So they certainly don't seem like "complete opposites" to me.
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2013-03-17, 11:09 | Link #58 | |||||
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Kiroumaru did not have to tell them the truth to gain their trust. And even still he told them the truth straight without buttering up his words or trying to make himself look better. Quote:
Now I understand they need the queen for the species to survive but if he was "honest" he would have said this from the beginning that the tribe decided they didn't want the queen to rule over them and they didn't kill her because they needed her to make babies, not try to sweeten it up with "equal rights" nonsense. Quote:
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In fact Dawnstorm and I had this discussion a couple weeks back that I didn't want him to betray them because that would take away from Kiroumaru's honor but she didn't think he should be portrayed like the "loyal savage". I think what happened in this episode met with both of our wishes. Kiroumaru would never betray Saki and Satoru not because he was "loyal to humans" but because it goes against who he is as a character. If Kiroumaru says he is on your side then he is on your side and he is honest about it. It's not in Kiroumaru's nature to conduct elaborate schemes to make characters think he is on their side when he is not. In fact he is being honest in saying I am helping you here but not because I am loyal to humans. The difference is Yakomaru always tried to butter up to the humans and those above him. His words were those of a flatterer but his true intentions were anything but honorable. Yakomaru would lie and say I am on your side when he really never was. Kiroumaru would say I am not on your side but here is the reason I am helping you.
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2013-03-17, 11:15 | Link #59 | ||
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Perhaps, but still he's not exactly risking his life. Also, he may be a mastermind but it's not like he's doing everything on his own, there are bakenezumi working under him who can continue the fight if he dies. It's just that he (quite understandably) doesn't want to die. |
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2013-03-17, 11:22 | Link #60 | |||||||||
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But no, he recognized that this is one time where it would probably be best for him to take a bit of a personal risk. Keep in mind that Tokyo is potentially deadly to Yakomaru for reasons beyond just Saki, Satoru, and Inui. The various monsters there could have conceivably killed, or at least wounded/injured, Yakomaru. Quote:
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"Well, we probably wouldn't have attacked you anyway, due to our low perceived chances of success". That was the jist of what he said. Quote:
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He clearly was not entirely sincere in what he said to the humans or he never would have went searching for WMDs. Quote:
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