Code Geass - Spoilers & Speculation (ver 2 old)

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Franckisted

If so, Nunnaly is EVIL because she was being selfish and manipulating her brother ( back in S1) so he could be near her.

Did she force anything on her brother? No? Yeah, didn't think so. Seriously, the comparisons of taking someones free will away with Geass is not the same thing as Nunnally wanting to be near her brother.

[dec4rhapsody]

AHAHAHAHA, people here are in heated debate ~

Originally Posted by Orga777

http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1167847389820na4.jpg



All I need to know now is what they are saying.<.<

This was full of crackness~A crossover between Zero no Tsukaima and CG~
I'll try to figure it out with my poor Japanese
There may be tons of mistakes because I never watched the former..

Louise (the pink haired loli) was trying to summon a familiar but got Zero instead. (Which is a pun because Louise was nicknamed Louise the Zero for she always fails. <- All hail wikipedia. )

And then our Zero began yacking about his Kishidan.

Zero: The Black Knights call on!

Zero: Where the heck am I?
Louise: Who are you?
Zero (in a rather arrogant manner): My name is Zero. Call me zero.

Kirche: You've done as expected Louise~ Louise the Zero has summoned the familiar named Zero~ (pun)

Zero(yacking): Everybody out there, all who desire for the defeat of Britannia and the liberation of Japan should join the Black Knights!

Zero(half mocking): Is there not a single warrior who demands to join the Black Knigts?
Louise: Seems that nobody is going to be your comrade.

Zero: That bold uncle over there...Aren't you joining the Black Knights? I'll make you a cadre at once!
Teacher: You are very rude! Which school do you belong to?

[Stretch5920]

Originally Posted by Var

He could always slap her and say no.

Now I want some fanart or a 4koma of this

[whiter]

Originally Posted by Var

Ugh. Pretty sure I did before, but here, let's do it again:
A desire is something one wants for themselves, even if it reaches a level where that desire becomes 'instinctual', it is still at its core a desire. In the case of C.C. it is a selfish desire. It is something sculpted by the conciousness, and therein, is not an instinct as conciousness would imply cognitive thought in the process, where an instict forgoes thought and simply acts. The very fact that she was able to go against her desire to die, means that it was not an instinct.

Whereas, on the other hand, an actual instinct in its truest form, such as the instinct a body has to survive, is not influenced by a person's thoughts. If the body triggers this instinct then it will do whatever it can to survive. There is no free will when instinct is involved.

Do you know what happens when someone commits suicide? Their body begins to panic and they die from the shock. This is a desire fighting and instinct but the instinct always kicks in.

Instic can be influensed by thoughts. Even if you'r afraid of a snake, you can calm yourself down and stop panicing. It just depends how strong you'r fobia/instict/fear is.
But well, lets just leave it to this. We'r going arguments formed by the same basics over and over again.

[Kusa-San]

Originally Posted by Ruvixur

Because he is also evil. And he is weak against girls, even though he is dumb concerning feelings.

And again is not that easy. I agree with you that Lelouch do bad thing. We all know that. But for me the "word" evil mean that the person have always bad intend. Is CC have always bad intend and want to control the world ? No. CC want to be loved. She don't want become a powerful empress and destroy everything aroud her so, like (as ?) that her and Lulu will be alone. I mean people for the most part, are not white or black, they are grays. Saiying CC is evil, is saiying that CC is only black and it's not true. CC is like the other people in CG, gray.

[Franckisted]

Originally Posted by Var

She was not taking away his free will. He could always slap her and say no. The people under C.C.'s Geass had no choice.

She has taking advantage of his soft spot, she knows that she wasn't gonna slap her or something, so it's evil in this way...


Aaaa... i wonder why do I even bother to try... it's futile. Believe what you want... even if it doesn't make any sense at all

[gabbytay]

Lets leave this discussion why C.C is evil. Since everyone against kallen is evil anyway

[Dream_Traveller]

Are people not entitled to a sensible opinion, Franckisted?

[Var]

Originally Posted by Franckisted

She has taking advantage of his soft spot, she knows that she wasn't gonna slap her or something, so it's evil in this way...


Aaaa... i wonder why do I even bother to try... it's futile. Believe what you want... even if it doesn't make any sense at all

How is wanting your brother to be at your side, at all similar to taking away a group of people's free will?

Lelouch has the ability to make a decision, those people had no such right.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Var

Technically both are evil in this C.C..

If we are talking about the young C.C. who was given Geass, then she is not 'evil' persay. She did wrong things but she was a child with little understanding. She was, like Lelouch, being exploited by the C.C. of that era. She is guilty, but not nearly as much as the one withholding the truth.

Yes, I do agree with you on this point. C.C. was some one who had pure intentions at first to be loved only to be twisted in the end. Much like Lelouch and Suzaku.

Actually, now that I think about it, episode 15 made C.C. almost as complex as Lelouch and Suzaku on the whole moral issues.

[Ruvixur]

Originally Posted by Var

Geass, in being able to destroy the 'gods', has to have been created by those gods. This is like the Greek pantheon, the only way to defeat a god is by their own devices. There is no other explanation as to the source of Geass, anyway.

Uhhh. I'll post my explanation.
It's Power of Human Race! The power to oppose fate ( death).
Think about it as spiral power.....
But more cool.

And even if it where created by Gods, it's still against them. Or, if you look at it in another POV, they are just bored.

[gabbytay]

Originally Posted by Var

How is wanting your brother to be at your side, at all similar to taking away a group of people's free will?

Lelouch has the ability to make a decision, those people had no such right.

They still have free will to obey him unconditionally

[Franckisted]

You don't understand what I'm talking about. She is profiting of Lelouch attitude toward her to make it "worse" for him.

Just go see the definition of "evil" before saying "she/he is evil".

Last message about this "evil" thing for me! Goodbye!

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Franckisted

She has taking advantage of his soft spot, she knows that she wasn't gonna slap her or something, so it's evil in this way...

You know that makes no sense right? I think I need to spam another definition...

Free Will:
1. free and independent choice; voluntary decision: You took on the responsibility of your own free will.

2.Philosophy. the doctrine that the conduct of human beings expresses personal choice and is not simply determined by physical or divine forces.

See that bolded part? Yeah... Just because Nunnally wants Lelouch near doesn't mean he HAS to be. It is his choice.

Aaaa... i wonder why do I even bother to try... it's futile. Believe what you want... even if it doesn't make any sense at all

Actually, what we are saying does make perfect sense.... What you are saying on the other hand...

[Ruvixur]

Originally Posted by Var

How is wanting your brother to be at your side, at all similar to taking away a group of people's free will?

Lelouch has the ability to make a decision, those people had no such right.

They can make decision. How to kill yourself, for instance. The can shoot themselves into head, or into heart, or into bellybutton...Not a good example?...

[Franckisted]

Pff... just go learn human psychology and come back after. It's far more complex that just "if he doesn't want blablabla".

Ah, and... you have the free will to kill yourself, no?

Oh well, bye.

Nuna-chan, C.C. , Shirley, Euphie, Arthur (the cat) etc... they are all evil anyway...


EDIT: just a question: If you control people will, so you are evil? Is that it? That just so superficial...
Just to point another anime/manga... Gunslinger Girl. ( The walfare agency is an evil organization, yes? )

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Var

Lelouch has the ability to make a decision, those people had no such right.

We dont know if C.C. Geass was constantly active or not. Maybe because it was in her left eye, it was passive at first then it starded to go out of control.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

We dont know if C.C. Geass was constantly active or not. Maybe because it was in her left eye, it was passive at first then it starded to go out of control.

Well, if her Geass is "Love Me" then I doubt it ever stopped. Look at her history while with Geass, she had everything. So I'd say she never had it 'run out'.

[brandon279]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Are you blind or something? Are you even watching the same show? LELOUCH sacrifices people. Suzaku REGRETS killing people whether it is a sacrifice or not. It is the way it is.

i am not blind, and i watch code geass, lelouch of the rebellion R2 (and R1)

so stop personal flame, it is anime discussion, anime discussion does not require any personal attack.

i agree that lelouch sacrifices people, but he admits that to defeat evil when you are weaker, you need to be tainted with evil, UNLIKE some1 who will sticks with "the means justifies the end" then ends with hurting what he says that he will protect.


regret means stooping, if no stoping then the regret is not present, it is just feeling bad BUT NO REGRET

Originally Posted by Orga777

He WANTS TO DIE because of that! How is that NOT regretting doing it?

really ?!
last time i know, if some1 really wants to do something against his geass (has the resolve for it), he can do it, just watch euphi scene, or just watch how suzaka stood in face of bismark while his geas was telling him to escape, and it was fully active one.

if suzaka wants to die, he can die with thousands of ways, and geass wont prevent, he can cut his hands and legs then tells any1 to shoot him, and i wounder how will the live geass save him, shirly had live geass but she died, the geass just brings the best of current capabilities, but it is interesting that he never tried to suicide.

plus he can just quite being soldier, quite killing people for living, it will be the same as he died, but hell no, he will try to get new promotions, he does not want to die before being KoO.


best thing for you,to do is to Quote Suzaka line in episode 8 R2 (when soldier tried to assassinate him.

suzaka comments by : when i was seeking the punishment of death within my heart, you put a geass on me commanding me to live (then he goes back to show the moment when leluoch gave him the live geass).

just read his comment, ...... tragic isnt it ?!

but IT IS PURE LIE.

what happened at that moment was not suzaka seeking death, because he could die in the whole 17 episodes of season one while no one would care about him, but in that momment he got an ORDER from brittanian officer ( to paralyze / hold lelouch and stay still till they destroy the whole area .

here is the REAL scene:

officer : major Kururugi, we are about to launch an attack to drive of the terrorist forces, you are to keep zero there.

zero: !!! he is ordering his men to die .

* suzaka hurries to obey the order*

suzaka: i cant accept your method, all i can do is -------

lelouch: you are going to die with me !, do you really want that !

officer: Kururugi, your death wont be in vain ....etc

suzaka: A SOLDIER FOLLOWS ORDERS TO THE VERY LAST

lelouch: it is nice and easy having some1 else giving the orders?

suzaka : wrong, i have decided this myself.

lelouch: suzaka, you are going to die?

suzaka: IT IS BETTER THAN BREAKING THE RULES.

lelouch: you dolt

*lelouch gives him the live geass*

that was from episode 18 R1, shinsen subs, time : 18:54 to 22 .



compare the 2 scenes, and tell me, what you understand, do you realize that the 2 scenes does not fit ?!, do you realize that suzaka is just liar ?

and it is good to see that he lied when mentioned that his father wanted to surrender, then zero told him "no, your father was killed because he didnt surrender/ would never surrender"

Originally Posted by Orga777

Yes. Yes he would.

on what bases ?

he didnt change a bit, he was following his decision from episode 1 in R1 till episode 20 in R2, only at that point he he acknowldged that he was wrong while zero's ideology is the right thing.

Originally Posted by Orga777

Yeah? And? He still rarely went into the kill against them. Go watch it again. He took out a whole group of them just by knocking them into each other. Some he blew up, but hey, that is war man. But hey, them firing on him first... well, that would be self defense too wouldn't it?

wow, how much would you go to cover for him, all frames that are destroyed with no ejections = death of the pilot, can you tell me how many ejections were zero, help me counting them because i see none,
the white shinigami comes from 2 roots, white : color of the lancelot, shningami from death he causes, = he kills all what comes in the way of his "promotion"


do you know that it was BRITTANIA WHOM WAS INVADING EU, suzaka was the one who got on their way, he was the one who charged them, enslaving them into numbers,

so in short words, he will do anything for brittania, kill enslave, betray, all for thye orders, hoping for a little promotion.

Originally Posted by Orga777

Saying that it was "in the past" was the worst thing he could have done. Suzaku was already upset enough. Lelouch made it WORSE. It wasn't like it happened years ago. It happened HOURS ago. And it was the biggest dick move to do.

so because suzaka was upset for euphi, he totally ignored Nunnly.

yeah, yeah, thats right, lets cheer for suzaka for his superub protection of nunely

Originally Posted by Orga777

The fuck? He KNEW Nunnally was safe where she was at the moment. That is why he did what he did.

oh, lelouch told that she was KIDNAPPED (episode 24-25 R1 animekaiten subs time 43:52

lelouch: the very Nunely you speak of has been kidnapped, suzaka, ... do you agree on cease fire ? i want you to help me to save Nunely, together there is nothing we cant do

suzaka: you should have joined euphi

lelouch that is in the past, you killed your father too, there is time for regret latter

suzaka: thats impossible for you, you have betrayed the world for the very last time, so the world has betrayed you, your wish can not come true.

*lelouch puts the bomb and asks for suzaka help again*

suzaka: everything after this point has nothing to do with you, your very existence is a mistake, you have been shunned by the world, i will save nunley
*gun shot*

he wanted to get rid of lelouch (promotion time), then "saving nunnley" get after that,

but what happened, it was promotion time, and again NO saving for Nunely,


suzaka went to get the promotion, and totally ignored Nunly, = he is a liar, he didnt care to save Nunely, OR suzaka knew that V,V kidnapped her, suzaka didnt consider the kidnapping as a threat, so he did nothing, and that shows how much hipocrite he was, (1-he knew that Nunnely and lelouch were on the run from the royal family, but he gave a blind eye because the royal family promotes, 2- he lied to lelouch and used the word "save" while means ignore/ give a blind eye).

Originally Posted by Orga777

Well, you aren't. But what you are saying is a bunch of narrow-minded bs.

so everything which is not in your liking is BS, are you trying to impose your taste on me ?
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ok, i am getting enough negative reps.

i an getting exhausted, and the posts are very away from each other, then no one will ever read them as a whole.

guess it is time to stop discussion any character in a spoiler thread.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Franckisted

Pff... just go learn human psychology and come back after. It's far more complex that just "if he doesn't want blablabla".

It is? Lelouch of course, is Nunnally's guardian. He has the obligation to protect her. That isn't manipulation, it is instinctual actually. He is more than just a brother to her, he was also her father figure. See the difference? Blood bonds are more than what you say. Sorry.

Ah, and... you have the free will to kill yourself, no?

We have been SAYING that! But you don't USE people and drag them down with you to GET that selfish desire. We have been saying this since the beginning now.