Nanoha StrikerS - Generic Discussion

[Comartemis]

You'r missing my poit, I'm speaking of a general audience, general audience will know who is Goku, Sailor Moon or Sakura (card captor Sakura), I live in Mexico, here are iconic characters like Naruto (although I hate to damit it), Sakura, Goku, Mazinger Z, Astroboy and some gundams (the robots, not the pilots) Nanoha could got the chance to be the new Sakura but the problem started since 7arcs made her older

And you are also missing the point. A "general audience" will be very different depending on where you're conducting this hypothetical survey. Japan is the home of anime; you're going to have a lot more people who are familiar with such and such character than you will in the west unless you're talking about specific series with extraordinary popularity in the west, like Sailor Moon or DBZ.

Another point for you, yes, if they want monet, then for the love of God, do the things well, I saw the first season of Nanoha on internet, I liked it so I seek for anime DVD distribuitors on my country and buy season 1, I saw Nanoha A's on internet, I loved it so I seeked for the same Anime DVD distribuitors and bought Nanoha A's, I saw StrikerS on internet, and I swear that I would not pay a single peny for it

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it, but the DVD sales indicate that lots and lots of people disagree with you.

[Evil Rick]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Um.... yes? Master Chief is one of the X-Box's flagship characters, nearly the equal of Mario or Sonic the Hedgehog. Yet there's a number of novels in the Halo universe where he--and the Spartans in general, for that matter--never show up.

In the Star Wars Expanded Universe you have entire lines of best-selling novels--the X-Wing series, for one--where Luke Skywalker only gets mentioned in passing. And if you don't think Luke counts as an "iconic history character" then maybe your definition of the term needs some reworking.

You'r missing my poit again, noone of those novels or examples you mentionated had been as good as the original ones

That depends on where you're asking these questions. I imagine you'd get very different reactions if you asked who Jack Sparrow and Amuro Ray were in Tokyo, for instance.

Ask someone in Tokio about Captain Jack or any of the characters I mentionated
Plus I just grab that guy of Gundam as an example, I have no idea of who is he

Wrong. I have mentioned multiple examples of series which flourish despite having switched the main characters around through their histories. Your argument fails, Rick. Now go find a new one.

No, your argument is the one who fails, as I sai, noone of those examples you have mentionated had been good, and in the Gungam series, the people like the mechas, not the pilotes

Originally Posted by Comartemis

And you are also missing the point. A "general audience" will be very different depending on where you're conducting this hypothetical survey. Japan is the home of anime; you're going to have a lot more people who are familiar with such and such character than you will in the west unless you're talking about specific series with extraordinary popularity in the west, like Sailor Moon or DBZ.

Noone of your examples would be good even in Japan, the fans will always say that the originals were best

That's you opinion and you're welcome to it, but the DVD sales indicate that lots and lots of people disagree with you.

People bought the DVD because they wanted Nanoha, do you know the level of disapointment about StrikerS?

StrikerS DVD sales indicate that a lot of people disagree with your evaluation of the series, myself among them. And so long as Nanoha continues to be profitable, 7Arcs will continue to milk her for all she's worth.

Yes, they'll milk her and her name util people is alredy tired and drop the series to a place that noone of us wants to see it

[Tempy]

Eehh Comar, I think this one we'll just have to chalk up as a lost cause. Like Ark and Haru, it's feeling like we're arguing with a brick wall. No matter what counterarguments we give, it'll somehow be refuted, no matter how weak it is and how illogical it may sound. Honestly, there's better things we can spend our energy on.

LIKE WRITING. GET YOUR STUFF DONE. Or watch more Higurashi. It's more productive and better on the stress levels than this.

Besides, we've been over this already some 3 pages ago. Now we're just beating a dead horse.

[Evil Rick]

Originally Posted by Tempest Dynasty

Eehh Comar, I think this one we'll just have to chalk up as a lost cause. Like Ark and Haru, it's feeling like we're arguing with a brick wall. No matter what counterarguments we give, it'll somehow be refuted, no matter how weak it is and how illogical it may sound. Honestly, there's better things we can spend our energy on.

LIKE WRITING. GET YOUR STUFF DONE. Or watch more Higurashi. It's more productive and better on the stress levels than this.

Besides, we've been over this already some 3 pages ago. Now we're just beating a dead horse.

Yes, call me brik to release your frustration, do it to try to hide the fact that you know I'm right, because the fact of you posting that POINTLESS message tells nothing more than that

[TheShinySword]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Yes, call me brik to release your frustration, do it to try to hide the fact that you know I'm right, because the fact of you posting that POINTLESS message tells nothing more than that

No E_R you are fighting a pointless cause. We've proven that strikerS was in fact very popular already today you can look back several pages if you want to see it. People didn't buy the Dvds to see Nanoha. They bought it because they liked it. you're not proving anything they've fought you back example for example sometimes you need to back down and conceded defeat.

[Tempy]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Yes, call me brik to release your frustration, do it to try to hide the fact that you know I'm right, because the fact of you posting that POINTLESS message tells nothing more than that

Alright now you're just snarking with nothing to offer to the topic. I'm giving up because I feel nothing I say will change your mind and I frankly do not want to waste energy or the mental processes trying to convince you. DO NOT talk down to me or to anyone here. That shows utter disrespect of those even taking the time to talk here.

Complain and cry some more. That's all I hear from you now.

[Evil Rick]

Originally Posted by TheShinySword

No E_R you are fighting a pointless cause. We've proven that strikerS was in fact very popular already today you can look back several pages if you want to see it. People didn't buy the Dvds to see Nanoha. They bought it because they liked it.

No shiny, I'm not fightimng a pointless cause

I saw StrikerS, I posted my opinion and I'm not gonna change it just because Comartemis or Tempest Dynasty say it, like I had never tried to make them change their opinion, and not for that I call them "Bricks"

[Comartemis]

Alright Tempest, just one more shot before I give this conversation up as a bad job.

You'r missing my poit again, noone of those novels or examples you mentionated had been as good as the original ones

I'd like to see some evidence of this. Certainly the X-Wing novels were never as popular as the original Star Wars trilogy was--that kind of success would be almost impossible to duplicate--but they are well-loved and respected by the fan community.

Ask someone in Tokio about Captain Jack or any of the characters I mentionated

Hmm.... was PotC ever even released in Japan?

Plus I just grab that guy of Gundam as an example, I have no idea of who is he

A pity. Perhaps if you knew who he was you would have a better appreciation for everything that came after him.

No, your argument is the one who fails, as I sai, noone of those examples you have mentionated had been good, and in the Gungam series, the people like the mechas, not the pilotes

Yet I don't see any of the main mechs coming back in successive series. The RX-78 Gundam certainly hasn't shown up in Gundams Wing, SEED, or 00, (the only ones I have real familiarity with) yet the series continues to sell quite well. SEED Destiny included from what I've heard on ANN, all perceived lack of quality aside.

People bought the DVD because they wanted Nanoha, do you know the level of disapointment about StrikerS?

The fact that people bought the DVDs indicates that they weren't disappointed with the series, Rick. How hard am I going to have to hit you to beat some common sense into that thick skull of yours? Why in the world would people buy DVDs of a series they didn't like?

[TheShinySword]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

No shiny, I'm not fightimng a pointless cause

I saw StrikerS, I posted my opinion and I'm not gonna change it just because Comartemis or Tempest Dynasty say it, like I had never tried to make them change their opinion, and not for that I call them "Bricks"

no rick you entered a debate and were not willing to listen to others opinions and the facts they have to back them up then expected to have them listen to yours without a fight. I don't know if that was your intention but that's what you did.

However we've gone off topic and I'm dropping the subject here.

[Evil Rick]

Okay, now I'm really pissed

I came her to tell my opinion, to leave my arguments, always posting them in the right and propery way, I never came here with the intention to change anyone's mind, I just came here to tell what do I think, but I didn't came here to be insulted!

Comartemis and Tempest Dynasty, in all the post I have made to you both, I always speak to you with respect and in a nice way with the intention to exchange opinions, I never insulted you so you both have no right, NO ONE to call me Brick or thick skull, you both insulted me in a high level

I came to these forums top make friends and know people for all the world who like the same things I like, so I have always tried to help the others, to hear them, to be nice with them, always with respect, and you know that very well Shiny

Comar and Tempest, what did I do to deserv be insulted? Just because I disagree with your arguments?! I leave my opinion and I demand it to be respected, I'm not gonna change my mind just because you too say that I must, I never came her saing "I think this, and this is the truth, you must asept it" No but you too didn't see that at all, you too just say that I'm a brick and a thick skull just because I disagree with you, you bothe disapoint me, really and it's sad to me, see things like this against someone who just want to exchange opinions

[Krinen]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Okay, now I'm really pissed

I came her to tell my opinion, to leave my arguments, always posting them in the right and propery way, I never came here with the intention to change anyone's mind, I just came here to tell what do I think, but I didn't came here to be insulted!

Comartemis and Tempest Dynasty, in all the post I have made to you both, I always speak to you with respect and in a nice way with the intention to exchange opinions, I never insulted you so you both have no right, NO ONE to call me Brick or thick skull, you both insulted me in a high level

I came to these forums top make friends and know people for all the world who like the same things I like, so I have always tried to help the others, to hear them, to be nice with them, always with respect, and you know that very well Shiny

Comar and Tempest, what did I do to deserv be insulted? Just because I disagree with your arguments?! I leave my opinion and I demand it to be respected, I'm not gonna change my mind just because you too say that I must, I never came her saing "I think this, and this is the truth, you must asept it" No but you too didn't see that at all, you too just say that I'm a brick and a thick skull just because I disagree with you, you bothe disapoint me, really and it's sad to me, see things like this against someone who just want to exchange opinions

Rick, the reasoning behind most of the argument itself, was more in disagreements with your unintentional bias with most of the answers. I don't suppose they actually intended to be insulting with, and as contradictory as this sounds, their "insults". Tempers have been running high, because it seems that with every point that they have made, you have not made an effort to at least see anything in it. They are not trying to change your opinions, they are trying to convey theirs without being misunderstood, which it seems has been rather difficult.

Now, chances are I'm incorrect on a point or too, as I have not been here for the entirety of the argument, but I really don't feel comfortable with everyone being angry with one another because of mixed signals. So, that's my two cents on the table.

[Comartemis]

I came her to tell my opinion, to leave my arguments, always posting them in the right and propery way, I never came here with the intention to change anyone's mind, I just came here to tell what do I think, but I didn't came here to be insulted!

Note: "leave my arguments". If all you wanted to do was post your opinions then all you had to do was post and leave. Instead you responded to comments we posted in reaction to your posts and the "leaving of arguments" turned into a debate.

As soon as the discussion becomes a debate, you can either defend your viewpoint or simply abandon the discussion. You did the former, and you did so badly, continuing to argue that your views are correct--and by extension, that ours are wrong--in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Comartemis and Tempest Dynasty, in all the post I have made to you both, I always speak to you with respect and in a nice way with the intention to exchange opinions, I never insulted you so you both have no right, NO ONE to call me Brick or thick skull, you both insulted me in a high level

You continued to argue that your views were correct using points and evidence that we have long since dismantled piecemeal. Your insistence, for example, that people were disappointed by StrikerS is very obviously refuted by the high sales numbers of StrikerS DVDs posted a few pages back, yet you continue to cling to it, saying "StrikerS sucks! StrikerS sucks!" over and over again like a broken record and offering nothing in the way of evidence to defend your views. This is why you are being called thick-skulled, Rick. It's because you suck at debating. You don't know how to admit that you are wrong, and you refuse to admit that the other person may have a point.

But nobody is trying to make you change your opinions. If you don't like StrikerS then you don't like StrikerS and nobody's gonna be able to convince you that it's a great series. Like I said earlier, you have an opinion and you're welcome to it, even if everyone else were to disagree with it. But the second you start debating about the quality of StrikerS--not whether you liked it or not but whether it was good or not--you'd better have some good solid arguments to bring to the table. Not liking the Forwards or not liking that Nanoha is all grown up (frankly I don't like Adult!Nanoha half as much as ChibiNanoha, so you aren't alone there) doesn't cut it here, you've got to have evidence that StrikerS is terrible and isn't liked by anyone, and frankly you haven't shown us any of that.

[Evil Rick]

Hah! And tell me, do you asept when you are wrong Comartemis?

No, you belive that you are in a very hig level above the rest of us, for your information, I recognise when I'm wrong, I have done wrong things here and I have apologised for my errors, not like you who will always say that your arguments are the corrects and that the ones who try to show you why they think you'r wrong are Idiots or thick skulls

I posted my opinions and argumenst, I said, "I think StrikerS is not that God because this... this... and this, show me a single post of me saing "StrikerS Sucks!" If you had the intelligence to backlog, you would see that I recognised that StrikerS had good things but never said that it totally sucks! In fact, I rated it as "Good" on the StrikerS overall rate and impresion

I think I agree with many of the things you and tempest posted, I gave my opinions to respond yours, like a debate, but no, when you saw that you could not change my mind, you just called me Brick and thick skull and that is an insult in anyway you look at it

[Krinen]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Hah! And tell me, do you asept when you are wrong Comartemis?

No, you belive that you are in a very hig level above the rest of us, for your information, I recognise when I'm wrong, I have done wrong things here and I have apologised for my errors, not like you who will always say that your arguments are the corrects and that the ones who try to show you why they think you'r wrong are Idiots or thick skulls

I posted my opinions and argumenst, I said, "I think StrikerS is not that God because this... this... and this, show me a single post of me saing "StrikerS Sucks!" I you had the intelligence to backlog, you would see that I recognised that StrikerS has good things but never said that it totally sucks! In fact, I rated it as "Good" on the Dtrikcers overall rate and impresion

I think I agree with many of the things you adn tempest posted, I gave my opiniuons to respond yours, like a debate, but no, hwne you see that you could not change my mind, you just called me Brick and thick skull and that is an insult in anyway you look at it

To beat a dead horse more, they weren't calling you a brick itself, they were commenting, using an analogy, on how difficult it is to get a point across to you correctly. Though it could have been said more tactfully, yes, it was not an insult to you directly.

[Estavali]

Looking back....

Spoiler for Ramblings.... =3:

Season 1 laid the basis for the series, introducing the world of a more technology-based form of magic and setting the tone (girls, little girls, kicking ass? HELL YES). To achieve this, we had the cast of the first season.

A's introduced Belka (though not very deeply) and used the Yagami-ke for this purpose, with the Knights as its representative. I would even go as far as to say that, when people say Belka, the Wolkenritter are the first people and image that comes to mind, not the Church, not Carim nor Verossa, not Vivio and perhaps (sadly) not even Hayate.

StrikerS' purpose is to expand the universe using the settings now provided by the first 2 seasons. We get an inner look at the TSAB by having the Aces join that organisation and have them take a more active role in tackling the problems that organisation faces. Midchilda becomes the main stage with at least one of them move to Midchilda permanently. More importantly, the new characters are introduced, to allow the world to expand beyond the old cast. And with SSX, some of the mist of mystery surrounding the lost world of Ancient Belka is lifted.

(And people might begin to realise that Nanohaverse has more than just fanservice and girls kicking ass. But I digress.)

What's my point? My point is, characters are instrumental in creating a world that's diverse and alive, but that does not mean the world should always be centred around one person or one group of people. By creating the Forwards (more prominently, imho, Tiana Lanster), the Numbers (particular the reformed ones, as I see them entering the stage more than their imprisoned sisters... unless the Doc makes a comeback) and Lutecia, 7Arcs ensures that Nanohaverse will now have more outlets for creativity, more possibilties to explore and to expand on. SSX is one example (though honestly I still haven't really get myself to listening to it. I prefer to know what I'm hearing. On a sidenote, Nagumo-chan, ganbatte! ) Tiana and Subaru, graduated from the events in StrikerS, are now prepared to take up the roles that their mentors, chiefly Nanoha, had intended for them: people capable of living, working independantly, shining by their own merits.

It is my opinion that StrikerS was to prepare for the launching of a new era, the expanded world of the franchise, by opening alternative routes for the writers to work on, instead of permenantly focusing on just one group, one pair, or one person. Yes, we can always cheer on the merry adventures of the White Devil befriending the unconverted masses, but take it too far and people will start to feel bored. "What, Nanoha is going to befriend someone.... AGAIN?!" The story will become predictable, and the last thing anyone what to see is a stale, predictable plot. And there's also the problem of what to do with them when you have new characters, especially new lead characters. Who will take the limelight? Is there enough time to share screen-time equally and not screw things up royally? What if *gasp!* we have to shaft them in order for the story to move in a reasonable pace and direction ? Will that lead to daggers under our pillows ?

(In my humble opinion and not just mine alone I'd say, Gundam Seed Destiny made the mistake of putting Kira back into the limelight instead of giving Shinn, who should have been the real star of the show, better character development. It pleased the Kira fanboys and girls. It also caused the rest of the world to throw their hands up in disgust.)

For example, can Nanoha, Fate, Hayate, and any of the pure-human cast see the world from the eyes of the Numbers, reformed and otherwise? Would a story focusing on prejudice and the hard work of struggling against the colored eyes of the masses work as well with the darlings of the TSAB as it would with the reformed Numbers who, on top of having a whole (possibly confusing) new world opening up to them after their defeat, were also dangerous criminals whose very existance is an eye-sore for the conservatives who sought to uphold the "magic-only, no bullets thank you" world of theirs?

However, this does not mean the old guard should now bow out and retreat from the stage. Now that we have so many people, with so many ways of approaching the world the series has created, why waste them? Thus like a tree sprouting new branches, the franchise can now spread itself over diverse routes focusing on different groups as their core. For example, we can have one that focus on Nanoha and Vivio and from that alone branch out to have one to have Vivio as its star and another that is centred more on Nanoha, AND have stories that link both together. Same goes for the Forwards, and in fact everyone else, including the infamously tight-knitted Yagami-ke. In fact, by breaking set groups apart and remixing their components/members with those of other groups, one creates more opportunities for more in-depth exploration into the series, and a story with more varieties.

Different characters, different character groupings begets different tellings of the story, with differing (sometimes conflicting) perspectives being just one of many factors. The more ruthless Tiana, for example, will have a different approach dealing with cases when compared to the more compassionate Fate, despite both being Enforcers and former members of RF6. And imagine, what if you put both of them under the same case, and have their personalities and methods clash? That is also where the danger of sticking one character/group in every story prominently lies. So as long this person/group remains at the heart of the story, there will be a limit to how much you can re-tell the story without going OOC, as Avatar has pointed out somehow.

The most important task 7Arcs and even fandom (like fanfic authors) is presented now is how to flesh out existing characters and settings before moving onto the next batch.

For the individual audience, it ultimately boils down to what attracts him/her. If it's just one character, indeed such a person will enjoy seeing season after season focusing on that character. But even beating dead horses have its limits, and unless that person is slavishly obsessed with his/her favourite, there will come a day, imho not too far into the future, when that person will grow sick of seeing the same thing over and over again, press the "Off" switch, and move onto something else.

Now, if only stories can flow from my fingers as well as speeches do.... >=3

[Comartemis]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Hah! And tell me, do you asept when you are wrong Comartemis?

Sometimes it takes a while, but yes Rick, I do on some occasions admit that I am wrong.

Take, for example, my behavior when I first joined Outer Cadia. I came into Cadia thinking it would be a wonderful, fun little place where I could make characters by whatever set of rules I wanted to, more like a Free-form RPG than... well... what Cadia actually turned out to be, which is far more hidebound and rules-oriented than I had ever expected.

I was determined to do things my way, I never had any intentions of creating a character who was weaker than the Wolkenritter, much less the Aces, and I argued at length over many portions of StrikerS canon the others had long since ironed out for themselves. For instance I once tried to create a character who used actual firearms instead of magical ones, on the grounds that the TSAB's mass weapons bans only extended to weapons of mass destruction, and that magical weapons were used in lieu of mundane weapons largely because mundane weapons were seen as being inferior to magical weapons. I've also argued and debated over numerous other, lesser points, for instance the power outputs of specific spells and what kind of impact is appropriate for a spell of B-rank or S-rank or whatever.

And you know what? Sometimes it takes a while, and sometimes I have refused to see reason until a while after the fact, but I have, on numerous occasions, been talked down from a position I held to with the absolute certainty that I was right and the others were wrong.

But look at you, now. We've demolished every single point you tried to present to us. You argued that people didn't like StrikerS and we showed you the DVD sales. You argued that a Nanoha series without Nanoha would never work and Kero pointed out SSX's popularity to you. And then you tried to insist that a series could never succeed without its' star character and I presented numerous examples of shows and spin-off series which did just that. Yet despite having your entire argument torpedoed one point at a time, you continue to hold to your beliefs with more stubborn denial than I at my worst have ever displayed.

At this point you are not debating any more, Rick. You are simply clapping your hands over your ears and screaming at the top of your lungs to drown out all opposing viewpoints. And for this, you have the same contempt that I grant to Haru and arkhangelsk.

[Evil Rick]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Sometimes it takes a while, but yes Rick, I do on some occasions admit that I am wrong.

Take, for example, my behavior when I first joined Outer Cadia. I came into Cadia thinking it would be a wonderful, fun little place where I could make characters by whatever set of rules I wanted to, more like a Free-form RPG than... well... what Cadia actually turned out to be, which is far more hidebound and rules-oriented than I had ever expected.

I was determined to do things my way, I never had any intentions of creating a character who was weaker than the Wolkenritter, much less the Aces, and I argued at length over many portions of StrikerS canon the others had long since ironed out for themselves. For instance I once tried to create a character who used actual firearms instead of magical ones, on the grounds that the TSAB's mass weapons bans only extended to weapons of mass destruction, and that magical weapons were used in lieu of mundane weapons largely because mundane weapons were seen as being inferior to magical weapons. I've also argued and debated over numerous other, lesser points, for instance the power outputs of specific spells and what kind of impact is appropriate for a spell of B-rank or S-rank or whatever.

And you know what? Sometimes it takes a while, and sometimes I have refused to see reason until a while after the fact, but I have, on numerous occasions, been talked down from a position I held to with the absolute certainty that I was right and the others were wrong.

But look at you, now. We've demolished every single point you tried to present to us. You argued that people didn't like StrikerS and we showed you the DVD sales. You argued that a Nanoha series without Nanoha would never work and Kero pointed out SSX's popularity to you. And then you tried to insist that a series could never succeed without its' star character and I presented numerous examples of shows and spin-off series which did just that. Yet despite having your entire argument torpedoed one point at a time, you continue to hold to your beliefs with more stubborn denial than I at my worst have ever displayed.

At this point you are not debating any more, Rick. You are simply clapping your hands over your ears and screaming at the top of your lungs to drown out all opposing viewpoints. And for this, you have the same contempt that I grant to Haru and arkhangelsk.

So, you are telling that I must shut up and leave my argumenst to myself just becaus you "demolished" them, so I have no right to try to put my opinions and backup them, okay, go ahead, call yourself the winner of this, go and say that Evil Rick claps his hand over his ears and screams at the top of his lungs, say that you'r the "champion" of debates and that I'm an idiot who can't asept Comatremise's opinions, do it if that make you happy, you will never change the fact that you and tempest were the ones who insulted when I always replied your opinions with respect and arguments

Just remember this, the same way you have right to come and tell you like StrikerS and a fourth season without Nanoha, the same way I have the right to come and tell that I misslike StrikerS and a fourth season without Nanoha, that's respect of opinion, something that you and Tempest obiously do not have

[wanwan1203]

*delurks*

Originally Posted by Tempest Dynasty

Eehh Comar, I think this one we'll just have to chalk up as a lost cause. Like Ark and Haru, it's feeling like we're arguing with a brick wall. No matter what counterarguments we give, it'll somehow be refuted, no matter how weak it is and how illogical it may sound. Honestly, there's better things we can spend our energy on.

LIKE WRITING. GET YOUR STUFF DONE. Or watch more Higurashi. It's more productive and better on the stress levels than this.

Besides, we've been over this already some 3 pages ago. Now we're just beating a dead horse.

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Yes, call me brik to release your frustration, do it to try to hide the fact that you know I'm right, because the fact of you posting that POINTLESS message tells nothing more than that

ummm evil_rick, you got lost in translation for a bit there ^^;;; brick wall/talking to a brick wall is an english idiom: http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/...o+a+brick+wall

http://www.usingenglish.com/referenc...rick+wall.html

http://www.freeonlineenglish.com/Pod...rick-wall.aspx

so they weren't exactly "insulting" you. they are not attacking you, they just want you to back your claims and defend them, give evidence and stuff.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

The answer is simple Comnartemis, change the star, and the serie will fall

Of course, all your arguments have been using movies rather then series, so lets look at a series for a change.

I'll pick Star Trek.

The first Star Trek season and the next generation have two vastly, no wait, completely different casts. According to your analogy, 'they changed the star, so the series would fall'

I don't think I need even tell that Star Trek hardly fell.

And this wasn't the only time they pulled a stunt like that. Voyager? Completely different cast. Deep Space 9? Yup. Though Worf managed to sneak back in that one.

One series that switched casts completely no less then four times, that changed the star no less then four times, and the series did not fall.

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Keroko, the sound stages SUCKS, they are only escuses of 7arcs to make money, that's why 3/4 of the people I know who like Nanoha have no idea of what are the Sound Stages

Have you ever tried listening to them while reading the translations? They are well put together mini-arcs that yield an incredible amount of background information on the cast, and those are just the Sound Stages for the series.. SSX was a two-hour long Sound Stage with a well put together story featuring the forwards, numbers and Vivio. Whether one likes it is up to that person, but it was a good written story.

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Now I ask you people, Do you really want to see Nanoha dissapear only to leave space to a forward?

Yes. As I pointed out with several examples, there are many stories you can tell if you divert away from Nanoha.

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

If you know me, you should know that I'm of the ones who oposes to a 4 season of anykind, in my opinion, Nanoha has made her part on the Anime history, and she should end since A's

.... So if you agree that Nanoha has made her part, why are you so set against the anime moving away from Nanoha and exploring new characters?

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Noone of your examples would be good even in Japan, the fans will always say that the originals were best

StrikerS sales beg to differ.

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

People bought the DVD because they wanted Nanoha, do you know the level of disapointment about StrikerS?

You yourself said you wouldn't pay for StrikerS because you think it sucked. By your own admision, people who think StrikerS sucks wouldn't buy the DVD's, which means that since the DVD's sell better then the previous seasons, people do like StrikerS.

After all, you said so yourself that you don't buy what you don't like.

[Kagerou]

This thread hurts my soul. So I have a great idea to fix it all.

Evil Rick: Shut up, sit down, and listen. You're entitled to your own opinion, okay? We get that. We know you don't like StrikerS. Neither do a lot of people, but understand that in the scheme of things what we feel and what Japanese fans feel are two completely different things. Personally, I had a love/hate relationship with StrikerS because I wanted more of the Original Three and the Wolkenritter; instead, I got new characters. Granted, I did over time grow attached to them (Teana is my favorite thank you very much), but to me they'll never replace Nanoha, Fate, Hayate, Signum, Vita, Shamal, Arf, Yuuno, Zafira, and Chrono.

However, let it be said that this did not in fact make the story they wanted to tell worse. If anything, the only bad things about StrikerS are the rather obvious inconsistencies they left in the series proper (mostly for them a case of Did Not Do the Research, and yes, I am invoking that trope right now). The story is fine, the characters are fine, but that doesn't mean that you'll like it.

Going with your Star Wars example, do you know how many people thought that Return of the Jedi was absolute suck? My father, a huge SW fan since before I was born, hates the last movie, and he especially doesn't like the Prequel Trilogy. However, he still likes the movies as a whole, because it tells a story he likes.

You're not going to like every aspect of MSLN. That's a fact. In fact, I'd be more worried if you did like every aspect of it, because that makes you a blind fanboy unwilling or unable to see the things they did wrong or just did poorly. It's when you go out and say you hated an entire aspect rather than just parts that I begin to wonder about how much you like the series.

That's right: I'm calling you out, Rick. I don't think you really like MSLN anymore. To me, you've just hit a point where you are no higher on my list than Arkhangelsk or however you spell it: You don't like the series, you refuse to look at it from the in-story universe's perspective, and you are entirely unwilling to listen to anyone else about their views on it. Quit it. Grow up.

Everyone's entitled to their own goddamn opinion. Live with it. You might not like third season or the Sound Stages, but a lot of people do, and that's a fact, and as long as people keep liking it 7arcs will continue to make more stories about the Nanoverse. You don't have to listen to it: Lord knows I don't read/listen to the sound stages, but that's only because I'd rather watch them than listen to them. But you are obligated to understand each others' views and agree with them in a calm and orderly fashion. Putting your hands over your ears and going "LALALALALALALA" very loud isn't going to change anyone's opinion and make you look like an idiot.

Comartemis: Don't be mad. Realize that you were just like him once, and of anyone, you should be the one to help him. Don't think of it like talking to a brick wall, because I've given you the hammer to bust that wall down. Get your senses together and help us out here.

Keroko: STOP MAKING SENSE.

Right, I'm done. I've declared that this is the end of the discussion. Everything else goes to PMs before Skyfall goes "lol no" and locks the thread.

Any further arguments and I'll begin to flame.