Valvrave the Liberator - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Lets not forget Madoka which was able to use the loss of humanity without murder and/or rape.

To be fair though, a lot of posters were a little befuddled about the supposed lack of humanity. Not everyone was convinced.

[SABER60069]

Would have been hilarious if just for this episode they returned to "Boku Janai" for the ED

[ReddyRedWolf]

An interesting analysis is that Facility (Kikan) may have a double meaning.

In the EULA the pilot must follow the Facility's orders and it reserves the right to take away the life of the pilot.

Kikan could also mean Engine. What does the Valvraves have? The Rave Engine.

If VVV-tan is the Engine of VVV-I then Haruto is pretty much a slave to her whims.

[NeutralZero]

Now that's a bummer... so he needs to satisfy OS-tan's hunger or else... or he needs to tame her the very least...

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

The concept of "loss of humanity" happens well before that twist in Madoka.

It's there all along. It just doesn't become obvious until the aftermath of episode three.

My issue with this episode is that rape is a plot device that shouldn't be used lightly, and I don't feel the show has earned the right to use it. It's really hard to feel anything for these characters in the first place, and the plot itself is already quite ridiculous, but it seems like the show uses death and mayhem for shock value, forcing emotions because of a horrible act juxtaposed with a rousing speech.

At this point, Valvrave is competing with Guilty Crown as one of the worst things I've ever watched.

[FiveOVER]

I guess I can never understand this overreaction. Sigh, I still have much to learn...

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Solace

It's there all along. It just doesn't become obvious until the aftermath of episode three.

My issue with this episode is that rape is a plot device that shouldn't be used lightly, and I don't feel the show has earned the right to use it. It's really hard to feel anything for these characters in the first place, and the plot itself is already quite ridiculous, but it seems like the show uses death and mayhem for shock value, forcing emotions because of a horrible act juxtaposed with a rousing speech.

At this point, Valvrave is competing with Guilty Crown as one of the worst things I've ever watched.

Created by the same people lol. The writer was the assistant writer for guilty crown. I guess Code Geass was really just a fluke.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by FiveOVER

I guess I can never understand this overreaction. Sigh, I still have much to learn...

no, you are not the only one, pal. i keep wondering why can't they accept things as fact.

[FiveOVER]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

no, you are not the only one, pal. i keep wondering why can't they accept things as fact.

I think they are just in denial. I guess they really do care about the characters after all.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by FiveOVER

I guess I can never understand this overreaction. Sigh, I still have much to learn...

Originally Posted by dragon1412

no, you are not the only one, pal. i keep wondering why can't they accept things as fact.

Originally Posted by FiveOVER

I think they are just in denial. I guess they really do care about the characters after all.

Then enlighten me. How is it an overreaction? What am I supposed to accept as fact? How am I in denial? What makes you think I care about the characters after all?

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Solace

It's there all along. It just doesn't become obvious until the aftermath of episode three.

My issue with this episode is that rape is a plot device that shouldn't be used lightly, and I don't feel the show has earned the right to use it. It's really hard to feel anything for these characters in the first place, and the plot itself is already quite ridiculous, but it seems like the show uses death and mayhem for shock value, forcing emotions because of a horrible act juxtaposed with a rousing speech.

At this point, Valvrave is competing with Guilty Crown as one of the worst things I've ever watched.

okay then, calm down first, now let's think of the sequences of events that happen :
- Haruto gone berserk
- During his berserk he attack Saki
- Saki resisted at first, but eventually accept
- Saki look sad afterward.
This is fact, basically, unchangeable regardless of your will. there is no she is sad because of something or i think they are both victims. Accept this first. you said that "My issue with this episode is that rape is a plot device that shouldn't be used lightly" - as you said, " my issue" indicating that your own thinking have mixed in, thus no longer fact in pure definition term and i think you already know this.
Now, you said that "rape is a plot device that shouldn't be used lightly" this is your opininon and i agree with you on this point, it shouldn't be use lightly. however, you can call it lightly in your view, but other might not think so. If you ask for evidence, both sides will point out evidences of their own and the other side will try to denied it. This is what i called " diffirent in opininon", as both sides cannot be said to be correct or wrong.
There is also the definition of care, how you define it make it diffirent, for some people, care is affection but for some others, care is having emotion towards something, so i think the more correct term is that your feeling roused when you watched this episode.

[Pacify]

Well damn. Didn't expect sunrise to pull off a full on rape. Interesting take on a vampire, more interested in da booty then sucking blood lol

[FiveOVER]

Murder, torture, abduction, blackmail, terrorism, bully, brainwash, rape, dictatorship, imprisonment, adultery, racism, violence, cannibalism, group suicide, war and many, many other immoral acts. And rape is somehow singled out among them as the most disgusting, inhumane and the one with the most negative impact on the people involved.

As if it can only be used in the most well-written and deserving story ever. As if it is the sole thing the media has to avoid as if it doesn't exist. As if it is the sole thing that could make or break a show. As if it is the greatest humiliation a character can ever suffer from. As if its the only thing that is not needed in ANY story. As if its the only element that must be for shock value in a show. As if the death of characters be any less sadder or repulsive as rape. As if rape must be told in the most meaningful way ever and as if the other crimes aren't of importance at all.

so WHY.

Edit: I need to calm down.

[frubam]

I guess I can see what the disgust is based on. Rather than look at the act of rape itself, I'd rather focus on the implications it will undoubtedly cause. Shouko is the equivalent of Kotonoha; Saki, Sekai. Saki seems like she has accepted 'that' part of Haruto, willing to be the scapegoat for Haruto's urges, so does that mean that this will happen again? Will Saki accept being a sexual partner to vanquish his carnal desires? Is she subtly pulling a Sekai, and will try to whisk him away using herself as bait? I can't even imagine how Shouko will feel when all of this is revealed to her =0(.

[NeutralZero]

that's like an insult to Saki to be compared to that Sekai..
true she did resign to her fate during that part but she was not the one that lead the MC to ruin unlike Sekai...

[frubam]

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

that's like an insult to Saki to be compared to that Sekai..
true she did resign to her fate during that part but she was not the one that lead the MC to ruin unlike Sekai...

It's a general comparison, not an exact one. There are similarities in the relationship structure here; it's just that School Days was the show I first thought of(which coincidentally also contains rape).

[Fjoergyn]

Questioned chapter 10 but it seems that nobody say ima, Soko ni Iru Boku, if you generate a strong impact on the sexual abuse her character. Real life is more frightening every day and you arguing for an animation.

excuse my English but not my tongue

[FiveOVER]

Originally Posted by Fjoergyn

Questioned chapter 10 but it seems that nobody say ima, Soko ni Iru Boku, if you generate a strong impact on the sexual abuse her character. Real life is more frightening every day and you arguing for an animation.

excuse my English but not my tongue

Reading the summary of ima soko ni iru boku, it seems to be a very dark and intriguing series. I will surely check it out during my break.

For your second sentence, I think you mean that the horror in real life is incomparable to that in anime. Yes, I think i can agree. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[NeutralZero]

Originally Posted by frubam

It's a general comparison, not an exact one. There are similarities in the relationship structure here; it's just that School Days was the show I first thought of(which coincidentally also contains rape).

out of topic but wasn't the one doing the rape thingy in SD was that jerk and a karma Houdini in the vn version Taisuke or whatever the name was?
and it was done to take advantage of Kotonoha's condition of that time?

[Folenfant]

Originally Posted by FiveOVER

I guess I can never understand this overreaction. Sigh, I still have much to learn...

I don't really either, but at the same time it's not like it's anything new for this show. I mostly don't understand the argument one particular person is trying to make though. It's like all over the place and keeps changing to include totally different angles yet still no actual points.

Originally Posted by dragon1412

okay then, calm down first, now let's think of the sequences of events that happen :
- Haruto gone berserk
- During his berserk he attack Saki
- Saki resisted at first, but eventually accept
- Saki look sad afterward.
This is fact, basically, unchangeable regardless of your will. there is no she is sad because of something or i think they are both victims. Accept this first. you said that "My issue with this episode is that rape is a plot device that shouldn't be used lightly" - as you said, " my issue" indicating that your own thinking have mixed in, thus no longer fact in pure definition term and i think you already know this.
Now, you said that "rape is a plot device that shouldn't be used lightly" this is your opininon and i agree with you on this point, it shouldn't be use lightly. however, you can call it lightly in your view, but other might not think so. If you ask for evidence, both sides will point out evidences of their own and the other side will try to denied it. This is what i called " diffirent in opininon", as both sides cannot be said to be correct or wrong.
There is also the definition of care, how you define it make it diffirent, for some people, care is affection but for some others, care is having emotion towards something, so i think the more correct term is that your feeling roused when you watched this episode.

This is a pretty good post. I think some people just have trouble seeing this situation anyway other than their own.

Rape is a touchy subject for some people I guess and some will just never accept it as an element that can be included in a story. I remember there being a scene in Wings of Honnemaise that happens (and in this one the character is fully under their control) for a little over a minute and because that one scene is in the movie many people have sworn it ruined the entire film for them and that they will never watch it again.