(L) Otherside Picnic

[stray]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

So yeah, the anime made a mess of things and is now struggling to make sense of it all. It's not just the order of events but they kinda messed up Sorawo's characterization too. She really only cares about Toriko and that's about it.

Except... I'm pretty sure part of the point of bringing in the original author for 2 anime original episodes (of banter) was to expand Sorawo's characterization.

Also, bringing up skipped (delayed) content goes against the spoiler policy and will probably be deleted; but that said, whatever content was skipped is probably going to be changed and expanded at this point.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by stray

Except... I'm pretty sure part of the point of bringing in the original author for 2 anime original episodes (of banter) was to expand Sorawo's characterization.

Except Sorawo was the way she was for a reason. That gets kinda screwed up in the anime. It doesn't mater that it's the original author who did it.

Originally Posted by stray

bringing up skipped (delayed) content goes against the spoiler policy.

The anime already set up the girls going back for the soldiers. That's not spoiler.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Except Sorawo was the way she was for a reason. That gets kinda screwed up in the anime. It doesn't mater that it's the original author who did it.

What reason is that, exactly?

I don't understand the nerdrage; the anime is way better than the manga, at least, when it comes to characterization, to where I'm not even bothering with the manga anymore. Yeah its got flaws with reordering, but again I expect there's going to be changes to the rest of the Kisaragi Station story, probably some lead in to Satsuki.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by stray

the anime is way better than the manga, at least, when it comes to characterization

I don't think so. Sorawo was supposed to be almost a sociopath who didn't care about anything due to her particular background. Her family were a bunch of cultist and Sorawo was about to burn them alive but found they were already dead (implied they were murdered by someone else). The anime went over this too, but they just glossed over it without giving it much importance. That's not "better" characterization. That's just sloppy writing.

The point of Sorawo and Toriko's relationship is how Toriko's is pretty much Sorawo's moral compass and emotional crutch because Sorawo is pretty much dead inside.

In the anime, when Kozakura remarks that Sorawo doesn't care about others, it comes across as forced because the anime screwed up Sorawo's characterization and portrayed her almost like a normal kid that just happens to be a little awkward. Some people here in the forum were even confused about that. And that shows how sloppy the writing is. It should have been clear to anyone that Sorawo doesn't really care even without Kozakura mentioning it.

The anime also fucked up by adding too much comedy. They ruined the scary vibe of the story.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

The anime went over this too, but they just glossed over it without giving it much importance. That's not "better" characterization. That's just sloppy writing.

If you want backstory to define a character basically 100% that's not good writing, that's... some Jun Maeda shit. Personally I prefer characters whose exposition happens in the present, and who aren't the sum total of tragic backstory and zany SoL antics. (Jun Maeda's not the only writer overreliant on backstory but he's one of the most egregious.) Part of it is probably preference, but conversely I've seen a lot of people who struggle to actually relate or follow characters without knowing their backstory.

Anyway, good writing to me is backstory that might tell you something about who a character was while exposition in the present shows you who they are. Which is part of why I really like the anime original banter.

The anime also fucked up by adding too much comedy. They ruined the scary vibe of the story.

I think it was more eerie than scary from go but Kozakura is basically comic relief in the source as well so... I dunno.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by stray

If you want backstory to define a character basically 100% that's not good writing, that's... some Jun Maeda shit. Personally I prefer characters whose exposition happens in the present, and who aren't the sum total of tragic backstory and zany SoL antics. (Jun Maeda's not the only writer overreliant on backstory but he's one of the most egregious.) Part of it is probably preference, but conversely I've seen a lot of people who struggle to actually relate or follow characters without knowing their backstory.

It's not a matter of the backstory defining the character, but more like informing why the character is the way it is. From the beginning of the novel, we already can see that Sorawo is a pretty strange person (not in the usual awkward otaku kinda way, but genuinely strange). We know that from her actions, from her introspections, from the way she interacts with Toriko and Kozakura. That's what defines her character, not the backstory.

But we just don't know why she is the way she is, hence the backstory. And what makes it more unsettling is not even the backstory itself, but the fact that Sorawo doesn't find the events of her past unusual or strange in any way. That's where the anime royally screwed up as it didn't make nearly enough emphasis on how Sorawo was nonchalantly telling a story of real-life horror and murder, her very own past, and she was like "well, everyone goes through shit like that, right? It's nothing unusual."

Ultimately the problem with the anime's writing is lack of consistency. Basically, it contradicts itself. On one hand, you have Kozakura making a honest remark about Sorawo not giving a fuck about others (which is true) but the anime has failed to show this fact through Sorawo's characterization. The novel was absolutely consistent in the fact that Sorawo was indeed a very screwed up person AND everyone around her (expect maybe Toriko) found her to be a very screwed up person. Writing has to be consistent with itself.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I don't think so. Sorawo was supposed to be almost a sociopath who didn't care about anything due to her particular background. Her family were a bunch of cultist and Sorawo was about to burn them alive but found they were already dead (implied they were murdered by someone else). The anime went over this too, but they just glossed over it without giving it much importance. That's not "better" characterization. That's just sloppy writing.

The point of Sorawo and Toriko's relationship is how Toriko's is pretty much Sorawo's moral compass and emotional crutch because Sorawo is pretty much dead inside.

In the anime, when Kozakura remarks that Sorawo doesn't care about others, it comes across as forced because the anime screwed up Sorawo's characterization and portrayed her almost like a normal kid that just happens to be a little awkward. Some people here in the forum were even confused about that. And that shows how sloppy the writing is. It should have been clear to anyone that Sorawo doesn't really care even without Kozakura mentioning it.

The anime also fucked up by adding too much comedy. They ruined the scary vibe of the story.

Anime only viewer here. I agree, she doesn't come across as sociopathic or uncaring at all. Just more concerned about self-preservation than Toriko, but honestly, Toriko's the weirdo here.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It's not a matter of the backstory defining the character, but more like informing why the character is the way it is.

There's plenty of people who've had traumatic events happen to them who don't have PTSD and mostly just go on with their lives. In that sense backstory does not fundamentally have to inform anything about a character and can exist solely for flavor.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Toriko's the weirdo here.

This.

[Top Sergeant]

I am glad to see the girls haven't forgotten about the Marines in the otherside. Looks like an extraction mission next week?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Anime only viewer here. I agree, she doesn't come across as sociopathic or uncaring at all.

Exactly. I bet most anime-only viewers thought Kazukura was pulling that out of her ass, but actually the problem is the anime played down Sorawo's characterization.

Originally Posted by stray

There's plenty of people who've had traumatic events happen to them who don't have PTSD and mostly just go on with their lives. In that sense backstory does not fundamentally have to inform anything about a character and can exist solely for flavor.This.

That's besides the point. Like I said in my previous post, the problem is the inconsistency between how Sorawo is portrayed and how she's perceived by others. It shows the writing is sloppy. If they wanted to make the story more light-hearted, they had the right to do so. Clearly there's an audience for that, you're one of those. But they should have put more thought into it to avoid the obvious inconsistencies we're seeing now with Kozakura still treating Sorawo as kind of a freak (like in the novel) despite the anime's watered down characterization of Sorawo not supporting that reaction.

On a side note, I personally think this watered down version of the story is considerably inferior to the novel. That's just my personal preference though.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

That's besides the point. Like I said in my previous post, the problem is the inconsistency between how Sorawo is portrayed and how she's perceived by others. It shows the writing is sloppy. If they wanted to make the story more light-hearted, they had the right to do so. Clearly there's an audience for that, you're one of those. But they should have put more thought into it to avoid the obvious inconsistencies we're seeing now with Kozakura still treating Sorawo as kind of a freak (like in the novel) despite the anime's watered down characterization of Sorawo not supporting that reaction.

Are you actually referring to the source of the current arc or are you talking about some shit that happens volumes down the line? Because unless you're hung up on this whole backstory I don't really get the "Sorawo is a sociopath" thing at all.

Sorawo did kind of forget about Kozakura during the Time Space Ojisan part but that was mostly played for laughs both in anime and source AFAIK.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Still this means they are going to do something about that, right? They can't simply bring that up and then forget it again, right? Right?

If this was a cartoon, I'm pretty sure they were going to set-up one of those jokes where the next time the army is on screen, they're just bones because its too late.

[Jan-Poo]

I'm an anime only viewer as well and I can agree that there's a glaring consistency issue in this anime.

Kozakura remarking that Sorawo only thinks for herself sounded extremely odd when it came immediately after she showed concern for the trapped soldiers and the intention to go rescue them and her determination to go rescure Akari by delving into a completely unknown territory. This inconsistency finds an explanation in the fact that Sorawo in the original script wasn't meant to act like that, which I would have never known if it wasn't mentioned by Kazu-kun. Now, I personally believe that adaptions should stay close to the original material, but while I can accept that this is a debatable matter, not cleaning up inconsistencies that may arise from the changes is not. If the idea was for Sorawo to no longer be a patently selfish person in this anime, then the dialogues should have been adjusted accordingly.

The other inconsistency here is the fact that Sorawo claims that the Toriko still has the hat, when not only we have seen it falling apart, there's even a dialogue where Sorawo comments that the hat is destroyed and they can no longer sell it to Kozakura. Apparently this is because the beach episode was supposed to happen later in the original story? But if they had planned this change how could they not realize the inconsistency it would create? It shouldn't have been that hard to simply show that the hat is still in one piece and replace Sorawo's lines with something else.

[stray]

They were supposed to go back to Kisaragi Station right after Spacetime Ojisan and before the beach trip, like 5 episodes ago. That's creating the biggest discrepancies. I still kind of expect some rewrites for however they do the climax but we'll see I suppose.

Its actually possible they changed the ordering due to covid too. It was pretty clearly Junichi Suwabe playing the captain and its not like there's many other male voices in the show.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by stray

They were supposed to go back to Kisaragi Station right after Spacetime Ojisan and before the beach trip, like 5 episodes ago. That's creating the biggest discrepancies. I still kind of expect some rewrites for however they do the climax but we'll see I suppose.

Its actually possible they changed the ordering due to covid too. It was pretty clearly Junichi Suwabe playing the captain and its not like there's many other male voices in the show.

Maybe but there are all kinds of little things spread out across the season that make no sense because of changes they have made but then ignored. The hat and guns thing from the beach are the biggest ones but not the only ones. It is like they have different people writing the episodes from the source material but with no cross communication about changes they make for each episode.

[Liddo-kun]

a few more thoughts on episode 10..

somehow, I found this to be one of the more terrifying episodes.. a strange dimension where a strong monster lurks, and wtf is there a barber shop there?! It looks like the barber tools have been used recently.. makes me wonder if some unfortunate barbers were sent to this place, and got devoured by that thing.

[Kanon]

The hat popped back up in mint condition without any explanation whatsoever. They could at least try a little. Another thing that confused me was the soldier telling them it's been a few days since they last saw them and Sorawo concluding time flows at a different rate on the Otherside. Is it supposed to flow faster or slower? Going by the anime, it should be slower since quite some time has passed since they came back. However, it's possible they went back for them straight away in the novel in which case it's the opposite.

[serenade_beta]

I'm assuming that they switched the episodes around to make this story the finale of the anime.
But the main problem is that this isn't really any more of an interesting story. In the preview, they're like "Wow, this is getting exciting", but I'm like, "......Okay."

[BBOvenGuy]

The business with the hat is sloppy and therefore annoying, especially since it would have been easy to get around. When they're talking with to Kozakura about how to get to Otherside from the restaurant, they could have said, "Well, we could have tried that hat. Too bad it got destroyed. We'll just have to hope this other way works." On the brighter side, though, this was the most tense and scary episode we've had in a while, and as far as I'm concerned that made up for the goof.

When the Marines couldn't remember whether they were at the portal where they first arrived, I briefly wondered whether they really were a bunch of Marines...

[Liddo-kun]

episode 11:

sadly, the base was exploded. So many useful equips still left there, like for example.. the electric generator.

the marines have so much firepower, but it's useless if Sorawo isn't looking at the creatures - fortunately she is there, so things went well. Surprised how their vehicle easily went through the fence, US technology is good.

one more boss fight.

looking forward to next week!