Macross Frontier (Macross 25) general discussion [No Spoilers]

[KaoruLia]

I prefer to think of it as HaruhixHikaru from Ouran... but meh. Just because the seiyuus married each other doesn't mean it'll affect the pairings in manga/anime anyways...

Anyways, it's weird that there has been two big seiyuu news in this month. I've been absent from the manga/anime scene for months now, being lured to the j-pop/Johnny-idol scene by Arashi (MatsuJun!!!1) and Mr.Children, but even the j-entertainment news site I follow have been covering Maaya/SuzuKen's marriage and Aya Hirano's sex scandal for a while now.

@Tak: Maaya has an attitude? How so?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by KaoruLia

@Tak: Maaya has an attitude? How so?

If you ever seen her backstage, or behind the scenes...

- Tak

[Father Hentai]

Sounds like you see her as the azn incarnation of Britney Spears. :P

[sa547]

Originally Posted by Tak

Well, I used to like Sakamoto.

Then she proved to have quite an attitude...

- Tak

Makes me think of her role in Eva 2.22

[Tak]

Originally Posted by sa547

Makes me think of her role in Eva 2.22

I have to admit, she is a very versatile voice actress, who is able to take upon multiple roles with relative ease.

Ok, not as flexible and versatile as Naomi Shindou, but right up there with the best...

- Tak

[magnuskn]

I must say, the previews for the Aquarion sequel have a certain Frontier-ish tone to them. Which, given the people involved, should probably surprise absolutely no-one.

[raile]

^NakaMegu voices a character whose name rhymes with Ranka.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by raile

^NakaMegu voices a character whose name rhymes with Ranka.

Ranka Sazanka?

She is a minor character though.

- Tak

[magnuskn]

Until only her singing can save the fleet, err, world and then she fails horribly.

Or somesuch. ^^

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I must say, the previews for the Aquarion sequel have a certain Frontier-ish tone to them. Which, given the people involved, should probably surprise absolutely no-one.

Except it gives those like me, people who liked the first Aquarion, irritation. I don't like to see two animes that have nothing to do with one another cross like that. It doesn't look right. Perhaps if I hadn't seen both, I wouldn't say that.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Except it gives those like me, people who liked the first Aquarion, irritation. I don't like to see two animes that have nothing to do with one another cross like that. It doesn't look right. Perhaps if I hadn't seen both, I wouldn't say that.

Since I think the first Aquarion sucked balls, I am not too aggrieved by the different tone I felt from this preview.

[raile]

Aquarion - great music, but WTF story sums it up for me.

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Since I think the first Aquarion sucked balls, I am not too aggrieved by the different tone I felt from this preview.

I slightly agree that the story sucked, but the animation was good compared to Frontier or even Zero. Makes me often wonder if Kawamori spends more money on it than Macross. But regardless, Sayonara no Tsubasa had a lot of Aquarion tones, including the final battle scene. So I'm often wondering if Kawamori wants the two to cross at any point. But I still thought Aquarion had better character backgrounds and personalities than Frontier.

The new tone implies that the characters will be much like that of Frontier, so far as I can tell. I don't want to see Ranka in Aquarion... that's too weird.

Originally Posted by raile

Aquarion - great music, but WTF story sums it up for me.

I liked the story of the past lovers... the present story, not so much.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

I slightly agree that the story sucked, but the animation was good compared to Frontier or even Zero. Makes me often wonder if Kawamori spends more money on it than Macross. But regardless, Sayonara no Tsubasa had a lot of Aquarion tones, including the final battle scene. So I'm often wondering if Kawamori wants the two to cross at any point. But I still thought Aquarion had better character backgrounds and personalities than Frontier.

The new tone implies that the characters will be much like that of Frontier, so far as I can tell. I don't want to see Ranka in Aquarion... that's too weird.

If you are thinking of that green haired girl in the preview, she looks much too assertive to be a Ranka expy.

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

If you are thinking of that green haired girl in the preview, she looks much too assertive to be a Ranka expy.

No, what I've seen of their expressions so far seems to lead me to believe they are Frontier trio material. I hope not though. I don't think I want to see the Frontier trio play out in Aquarion.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Since I think the first Aquarion sucked balls, I am not too aggrieved by the different tone I felt from this preview.

My thoughts exactly.

[magnuskn]

First episode of that series gave off a good vibe. Almost Macross worthy.

[raile]

Top 10 Romance Anime Which Still Have a Place in Your Heart

1. Toradora!
2. Clannad
3. Ai yori Aoshi
4. Onegai Teacher
5. Macross F
6. Kimi ni Todoke
7. Emma
8. True Tears
9. ef – a tale of memories
10. Ichigo 100%

[karice67]

er...I wanted to take advantage of the peace...but I have the feeling I've just missed it...*sighs*

Anyways, here's to hoping that this clears up more myths than it creates!

I've been alluding to this from time to time over the last few months, but there are a couple of myths about Macross Frontier that I've been wanting to address. Namely,

1. that Yoshino was the one responsible for the triangle non-resolution in the TV series, and
2. that Yoshino outrightly stated where Alto's feelings lay at the end of the TV series

From what I can tell based on everything I've read so far, the first is simply wrong, and the second is unsubstantiated (specifically, everyone just maintained the 'sky end' - not that I think it matters anymore given that the 2nd film is out, but anyways).

These myths have been used primarily by shippers on BOTH sides to support their ships, leading to arguments that have gotten out of hand on more than one occasion. Since I see myself as having some responsibility for this (having alluded to the myths and having linked the previous translation of the interview in question), I'm hoping to make up for that by setting the record straight here.

That these were myths started dawning on me about mid-way through last year, when I started going through all the behind-the-scenes material I could get my hands on. And that was confirmed when I finally read the original of a certain Yoshino interview - the one from the fanbook.

Once again, here it is...but with a new translation.

The relevant section of Yoshino's fanbook interview
　
Heading: If we'd settled the triangle, the concert at the Budoukan would have been...

--I'm sure this question has been asked of and answered by you many times already, but why did you not settle the love triangle between Alto, Ranka and Sheryl?
Yoshino: The truth is, we were debating whether to settle it or not right up to the end. Then, as we were all focusing on the endgame, even though none of us every put it unambiguously into words, everyone began to feel the same way. That it wasn't something that would end along the lines of someone winning, along the lines of Alto ending up with one or the other; that it need not end in that manner.
　A lot of people on all sides even started joking that, if that quiet and unsociable Alto were to act naturally, he'd like the sky more than either girl anyway. And the result was that [we] decided not to force a conclusion, but to let them all go on and move forward in accordance with their character personalities.
　At that time, [we] all wondered, "Won't the viewers be angry?" "Probably. But that's fine, [we're] prepared for that"＊. But after than, when the feedback from the viewers had come in, Kawamori-san may have gotten rather down. It seems like he was really bothered [by what everyone said]. However, whilst watching both girls on stage during the concert at the Budoukan, we had the following conversation: "It's good that we didn't settle it, huh?" "True that. If we'd settled it, this concert would definitely have been rather strange."＊ (laughs).

＊Yoshino does not specify who said any of these quotes. Please see the notes below --karice


--But even if you put it that way, whilst "Alto-kun who loves the sky" is certainly appropriate up to a point, from around episode 22, it seemed like [his relationships with each] were the focus of his thoughts and actions, right? In episode 22, he even spent the night with Sheryl...when I spoke to the voice actors [for this book], that episode came up. The clamour it caused is quite interesting.
Yoshino: (laughs). Well, that scene certainly developed in a way that made everyone very concerned about what happened next. For my part, I don't want to talk about it, so I'll leave it to [your/everyone's] imagination.
　When we recorded the dialogue＊, the key animation and storyboarding had already been done (NB: the animation was still incomplete), and a somewhat sensational rough cut had been selected for the recording. And the reactions from the voice actors, and from the staff on this side of the booth, included quite a few "Oooh...!"s.
　But no, I do wonder what actually happened that night (laughs). Only Alto and Sheryl know the truth.

＊'afureko' 101 part 2...the dialogue recording for a particular episode usually occurs a number of weeks before the episode airs, when the animation is still being worked on. So as to help the voice actors with the timing for their lines, a rough cut is usually put together for the recording, and the seiyuu will stand in a line behind the mikes, watching that cut on the screen. (Please watch some of "Anime Ad-lib Laboratory" for an idea of what a recording studio looks like.)


--Won't that 'sensational cut' be resurrected for the BD or DVD perhaps!?
Yoshino: Well...I wonder what we should do with that. But rather than placing your hopes on the TV version...it might be better if to invest them in the films. We could also use it for publicity (laughs).


--And even after than, Alto's strange advance continues. In episode 23, he said that he entered S.M.S. for Ranka's sake, but follows that by telling Sheryl that he'll return to her side in episode 24. And then we have his "You are both my wings!" in the final episode!
Yoshino: I think that Alto doesn't have much self-awareness. [That unconscious part though, is rather bad/mean. (laughs)] Speaking for myself, however, until the conversation between Sheryl and Alto before he goes off to battle, I really didn't know how their parting would turn out.＊
　But you know, I do think it's good that we didn't settle it. It's great that viewers can see the ending the way they want, according to whomever they were supporting, be it "he was heading to Ranka's side, right?" or "No, Sheryl's the one who won." Since everyone will see things in a different way anyway, there's a feeling on this side that we need not settle it either.

＊this was the part that, in the original translation, gave the impression that Yoshino had stated where Alto's feelings lay. --karice

Spoiler for Original Japanese text:

決着をつけていたら武道館ライブは．．．

——すでにいろいろなところで聞かれたり、お話しになっているかと思いますが、まずはこっちの三角関係につ いて。アルトとランカとシェリルの恋愛に、なぜ、決着がつかなかったんですか？
吉野：決着をつけようかつけまいか、結構ギリギリまで決めてなかったんです，本当のところ。で、終盤を見据えて いくにつれ、みんなの中で、これははっきり言葉化したわけじゃないんですけど、なんか、どっちが勝って、ど っちとくっついて、という風にはならないんじゃないか、ならなくてもいいのかな、という感じに なってきて。
　あの朴念仁のアルトがナチュラルに動くとしたら、女の子よりお空のほうが好きでしょ、という突っ込みがス タッフ各方面から入ってきて。じゃあ、無理やり決着つけないで、彼らは彼らなりに行っていただこうか、とい うことになったんです。
　「お客さん、怒るかな」
　「うん。まあ、いいよ、覚悟の上だ」
とか言いながら。ただ、その後、皆さんのいろんなご意見が入ってくると、河森さん、わりかしヘコんでたかも 。ちょっと、気にしてたみたいです。
　ただ、武道館のライブを見ながら、シェリルとランカが同じステージにいるのを見て、河森さんと「決着つけ なくてよかったね」「そうだね。そうしてたら、このステージ、やっぱり微妙だったもんね」と（ 笑）。

——しかしです、確かにある時期までは「お空の好きなアルト君」でよかったんですけど、22話の辺りから、 どちらとも深みにはまっていく感じじゃないですか。22話でシェリルと一夜を過ごしちゃうし．．．。今回、 声優さんに話を聞いても、あの話でてくるんです。みんな喧々囂々で面白いんですけど。
吉野：（笑）。たしかに、あのあとふたりの間に何があったか、すごく気になる流れですよね。こちらからどうこう と語る気はありませんし、そのあたりは想像にお任せしますが．．．。
　アフレコは、あの話数の頃はもう原撮やコンテ撮（註：映像が完全に仕上がっていない状態）になってて、ち ょっと煽情的なラフが入ってたりしたんで声優の皆さんからも、ブースのこっち側にいるスタッフからも、「お 〜っ」と、溜息が漏れたりしましたが。
いやぁ、本当に何があったんでしょうか（笑）。真実はアルトをシェリルだかが知ってます。

——その「煽情的なカット」、BDとかDVDで復活できませんかね！？
吉野：う〜ん、どうでしょう。TV版で期待するより、劇場で何か．．．と思って貰った方が良いかもしれません。 宣伝的にも（笑）。

——あのあとも、アルトの怪進撃は続くわけですよ。23話で「ランカのためにS．M．S．に入った」と言い 、24話で「お前のところに帰ってくる」とシェリルに言い．．．。最後は「お前たちは俺の翼だ 」！
吉野：アルトにはあまり自覚がないと思うんですよ。無自覚な分、タチが悪いんだけど（笑）。ただ、僕自身として も、24話のシェリルとアルトの別れ、出撃前のふたりの会話まで、どう転ぶかわからなかったの が本音です。
　でもね、やっぱり、つかなくてよかったんですよ。どちらかを応援してくれてたお客さんが、最後は「ランカ のところに行ったろう」「いや、シェリルが勝った」とか、見たいように見ていただければ一番ですよ。見てく ださった人たち、それぞれの結末でもあると思いますから、あえてこっちではオチつけなくてもという感じです 。

NOTES
This translation is mostly mine, with slight reference to the original translation and also to a rough translation from someone who has worked on many things for a certain Eva community (said translator being a friend of a friend). His comments, which accompanied the translation, went along the following lines:

• what it shows is that the staff were seeing things heading towards something like a conclusion, but thought that it need not fall into that pattern
• The keyword is the phrase「ということになったんです」, which is literally something like "that is the result" (See underlined phrase above. The nature of English being what it is, I decided to use the pronoun "we". --karice), which is an objective statement used in Japanese to remove the identity of the person(s) who made the change. As such, the comments that come after that statement, about 'the viewers being angry' and 'I'm prepared for it' might not have actually been said, or might have come from different staff or from Kawamori or Yoshino themselves - we don't know.
• The important thing is that Yoshino was being careful not to pin the responsibility for the decision on anyone, instead speaking of it as a group decision.
• But Kawamori would naturally have felt that he was responsible for all decisions regarding the story => he understandably felt down after hearing all the negative opinions about the ending.

Finally...please don't engage in finger-pointing etc. Unlike the Shaloom issue, this was the result of a genuine mistake on several of our parts. I'm just hoping to clear it up because I've come across those myths (and variations there of) too many times for my liking.

Over to the rest of you if you'd like to comment.

[Xardie]

ahhh, you finally came out with the info. Great, just great - even if I'm slightly worried about the public response (but more than that: it's going to be fascinating )

Originally Posted by karice67

This translation is mostly mine, with slight reference to the original translation and also to a rough translation from someone who has worked on many things for a certain Eva community (said translator being a friend of a friend). His comments, which accompanied the translation, went along the following lines:

I can guarantee the quality and accuracy of his work on this matter, of course. Those of you who have interest in Puella Magi Madoka Magica have probably stumbled upon numerous translations by him as sizable amount of material avalaible on PMMM wiki is his work.

Kawamori is the King Troll and poor Yosino has got too much honor for Sky End troll thanks to past mistranslations