Sword Art Online - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[Ray]

Originally Posted by kitten320

1) True but it is a bit too much.
I could have ignored it but the way MC acted at the end just made me want to punch the coward in the face. That is not the best way to start a show... Right now I don't see why would he even do that. Was it to make everyone fear him so they would not hurt him?
If I were them, I would tie the guy and force the answers -_-

The reason he acted why did was to make himself out to be the worst of the worst (a beta player who's also a cheater), so that they'd unite, direct their hatred at him, and forget about the possibility that there may be other beta players in their midst and prevent the non-beta tester players from going on a stupid witch hunt for beta players because of their advantage over normal players. He didn't care about not getting hurt. If anything, he wanted people to HATE him, so that they'd spare anyone else who was thought to be a beta tester.

2) In one hit? But MC also was damaged, why didn't he lose all the life? The blue haired guy block with a shield =/

Yes, in one hit. Diabel (the blue haired fellow) was hit by the boss' special attack, while Kirito was hit by a counter. Diabel attempted to block that attack, but failed. And I guess that was because the damage from the boss' attack far surpassed Diabel's defense (which is usually how blocking works). The boss was jumping around, causing it to gather lots of momentum and power.

And how is he pathetic? He did what he did for the better of everyone else. And well, to a much lesser extent, for himself (since he seems to be a lone wolf type of guy). He is anything but pathetic for attempting to focus all of their frustration on himself. It take real guts to do that.

[kitten320]

Then the change is too sudden since just at the start of the episode he was shaking like a baby when beta players were mentioned.

[Karakuri]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Then the change is too sudden since just at the start of the episode he was shaking like a baby when beta players were mentioned.

Well, in a game which means death, if they know there's a beta player, and they want you to show yourself, give all your items and stuff, would you not be scared if they found out about you?
You'd be left with nothing. Pretty hard to make up for that one.
Plus, he's a kid...you expect a kid to not be scared about elders thinking about revenge? In a Death-game?

[kitten320]

That's why I'm saying that the change is too sudden because now he is not scared of something he was minutes ago. It is too fast even for an anime.

Just because he took all blame doesn't mean that he is safe. They can kill him just like before yet he is all fine with it now.

A huge change like that does not happen in a minute, it needs time.

[Karakuri]

Originally Posted by kitten320

That's why I'm saying that the change is too sudden because now he is not scared of something he was minutes ago. It is too fast even for an anime.

Just because he took all blame doesn't mean that he is safe. They can kill him just like before yet he is all fine with it now.

A huge change like that does not happen in a minute, it needs time.

However, he did it to redeem for his acts. - He didn't do it thinking he'd be safe. That's why he bit his lips, he knew he would be in danger because of that.
He left Klein alone with his friends, and moved on to level up on his own.
He put the hatred towards him so he could repay for his sins and to " honor " that " Blue hair guy's " ( Diabel's ) death.
Diabel even though he was a Beta Tester he didn't leave them alone, this was the only way he could repay for his sins, and try to help other Beta Testers, since some of them could be just like Diabel, who wouldn't leave other people behind. ( Unlike Kirito, though he left them behind because he didn't know if he could handle it with more than 2 players )

[Adigard]

Originally Posted by kitten320

That's why I'm saying that the change is too sudden because now he is not scared of something he was minutes ago. It is too fast even for an anime.

Just because he took all blame doesn't mean that he is safe. They can kill him just like before yet he is all fine with it now.

A huge change like that does not happen in a minute, it needs time.

If you don't see the motivation, it's highly possible this particular programs "show, don't tell" approach won't work for you, and you'll remain irritated from here on out. Not trying to offend, just making an observation.

Kirito is willing to have a bunch of people dislike him, rather than having a witch hunt start vs. a chunk of the population. Simple 'nuff, no? Because, let's be honest here, a witch hunt intent on tracking down a chunk of the population is going to cause a whole lot of problems. You don't start a bunch of hostages on a bloodbath and expect folks to recover.

Vs. a witch hunt intent on tracking down one guy... when that one guy is going to be a target either way? And if you've presented yourself as a powerful cheater in a death game... you're probably safe from the random folks who don't like you... because it's still a death game. and you apparently can cheat, no? At the end of that boss fight Kirito was going to be on the pointy end of any retaliation, at least this gives the others in the room something to think about first. Because, it's not like the anti-beater witch hunt won't start with him after that boss fight anyway.....

Really, it's not that hard to notice.

[Znail]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Then the change is too sudden since just at the start of the episode he was shaking like a baby when beta players were mentioned.

Bravery is not the absence of fear, but the abbility to do what is needed despite being afraid.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Znail

Bravery is not the absence of fear, but the abbility to do what is needed despite being afraid.

This. Exactly this.

[kitten320]

You guys are missing my point. In real life would you really beat your fear in few minutes?

He ignored people and hid and then all of a sudden he became saint! Diabel's words were a push but are those words really enough to change a coward into an all carrying brave man in just a second?

In some time yeh, but in a second? He didn't even know Diabel well! If it was a friend, yeh I could see that but a total stranger?

[lightbringer]

You're also missing a few points, for that matter. This is fiction, not real life. People do stuff in fiction that is larger than life, which is why we read/watch it

While it was a few minutes of air time, in game many hours have passed since they have to move from the meeting place through the dungeon tower to the boss room, clearing respawns in multiple tower floors along the way. So it was not a one-moment-to-the-next kind of thing, certainly not a matter of seconds.

We don't really know why he's shaking at the start - you seem to assume he's worried for himself and that he's just a coward, but maybe he's actually afraid of a witch hunt starting against all beta testers and the bloodbath that might follow? If he was really a coward, he'd be cowering back in starter town instead of being out there leveling, risking his very life every day. Plus it's not like he beat his fear, more like he made some kind of resolution and decided to move forward. We call that character growth

[Karakuri]

Originally Posted by kitten320

You guys are missing my point. In real life would you really beat your fear in few minutes?

He ignored people and hid and then all of a sudden he became saint! Diabel's words were a push but are those words really enough to change a coward into an all carrying brave man in just a second?

In some time yeh, but in a second? He didn't even know Diabel well! If it was a friend, yeh I could see that but a total stranger?

I think the fact other people could get into danger, or even get killed because they knew there were more Beta Testers, just like Kirito, would lead him to do that, no?
It doesn't really matter if he doesn't know Diabel though - He was trying to do what Diabel asked him to. Diabel asked him to help them, and that's what he did -> Those were his last words, why not try to fulfill it ?
Kirito was the only one they knew at that point, he couldn't deny it, why not stop them from creating a problem out of it? In a game which death in-game means death in real life, if you have everyone who wants to clear the game, fighting agaisn't each other, or not trusting, would be quite dangerous.
Also, just as it was mentioned, if he acted like a " Beater " he would be a bit more safe, since they'd think he could cheat.
And also, that's why he's the MC. He does things people normally don't, isn't that the point of being a MC? Doing things people wished they could ? Who wouldn't like such an act of bravery?
But if you think what he's doing is kind of " stupid " ( Can't find the right word, so used " stupid ", sorry ) or something like that, well...I honestly don't think you'll like the other episodes...But even then, I think you should watch it. Maybe you'd lose that feeling about Kirito.

[Adigard]

Originally Posted by kitten320

You guys are missing my point. In real life would you really beat your fear in few minutes?

He ignored people and hid and then all of a sudden he became saint! Diabel's words were a push but are those words really enough to change a coward into an all carrying brave man in just a second?

In some time yeh, but in a second? He didn't even know Diabel well! If it was a friend, yeh I could see that but a total stranger?

This is what I meant by the whole "show / don't tell", won't enjoy the show.

Look. Diabel has friends in that room, we know this because at the start of the episode he told us that he and his party found the boss. The odds on the raid leader NOT taking his party full of friends into the boss fight are somewhere near zero. We know these friend's were NOT with him prior to the official SAO start, so they've known him for less than a month, but they've probably spent a fair amount of time with him in that month. And since his plan all along was to fight the floor boss, it's a fairly safe assumption that he'd gather a party of friends.

With me thus far? We've made a few assumptions getting here, but they aren't terribly outlandish ones.

Now, Diabel dies... and (in the raid group's opinion) it's all Kirito's fault. Because Kirito is a dirty rotten Beta Tester who let the raid leader die because he refused to share what he knew about the boss. Obviously Kirito knew all about the boss, because he knew what to do. Obviously he did not plan on sharing anything about the boss, because he had tons of opportunities to do so during the strategy meeting. In fact, Kirito is a loner, only teaming up with one other player when everyone else is teamed up in full parties... So not only is he a bastard beta tester hoarding information, he's a solo player who doesn't play well with others.

Those dirty rotten beta tester's knew alllll~ about the game, from spending a month in SAO beta... and they leveled solo faster because they abandoned the regular player's, who, by the way, have been dying in droves trying to learn the system.

Now... we have Kirito, a beta tester, a solo / friendless player, who just let their buddy and raid leader die.

Odds on Kirito surviving to make it out of that room? Pretty damn near zero. Vegas bookies are not going to touch his odds of survival. And his murder is probably going to spark off a bloodbath against beta testers. Because you can't just murder one guy in a blood-crazy spate of vengeance.

Kirito growing a pair to save his own life? Sure, I can totally see it. As an added bonus he can fulfill Diabel's dying request / and while the attention will be focused on him for a little while, he's a solo player anyway, and the whole fear of cheating will scare most folks off. The added bonus that he can stave off a brewing bloodbath against a decent sized chunk of the hostage population is likely just an added bonus. Yes, he's a good guy for doing it, but he might not have lived to walk out of the room if he didn't. Kirito was screwed regardless.

Does it make sense, now?

Originally Posted by kitten320

2) In one hit? But MC also was damaged, why didn't he lose all the life? The blue haired guy did block with a shield =/

It's fairly obvious it was more than one hit. It ~might~ have been three, although we clearly see two unblocked hits landing. The third is a transition hit, so it may be the POV change that makes the first hit look like two, hard to be certain, but we certainly hear the 'sound' of three hits landing. But regardless of how you look at it, it's definitely two solid body blows landing on Diabel.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by kitten320

You guys are missing my point. In real life would you really beat your fear in few minutes?

He ignored people and hid and then all of a sudden he became saint! Diabel's words were a push but are those words really enough to change a coward into an all carrying brave man in just a second?

In some time yeh, but in a second? He didn't even know Diabel well! If it was a friend, yeh I could see that but a total stranger?

Adigard pretty well covers it, though changes between the short story they adapted and the anime also play a role.

A small bit of clarification to what Adigard said. There are two types of beta testers. Those that hoarded their information, and used their knowledge to immediately rush out and level up as fast as possible, thereby increasing their own chances of survival, and those that stayed around town, and did stuff like create that manual, or at least help out a few people. Kirito is the first type. He made his choice when he opted to part ways with Klein, rather than help Klein and his friends. This is something that Kirito feels guilty about. Part of the reason he feels guilty, is that a number of players had the same sort of trouble that Klein initially had with the boar. Low level monsters, but their too inexperienced to know what to do. And unlike Klein who had Kirito explaining things, many players had no one, and ended up panicking and dying vs those low level monsters.

So his reactions aren't simply colored by fear, they're also colored by guilt.