Madoka Magica - Episode 03 Discussion / Poll

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by jedinat

I'm getting seriously frustrated that 3 episodes have gone by and the protagonist still hasn't become a mahou shoujo... this was the episode to do it. Two episode stalling was enough to firmly establish that, yes, this is not your average magical girl show. Now I'm just kind of annoyed.

Considering all we've seen, Madoka becoming an MG could quite possibly lead to some serious shit. I'm starting to think she probably won't become one any time soon. Who knows, maybe that's the climax of the series....

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Clarste

She needs something important to spend her wish on. Mami's death is surely that something important, regardless of how such a wish might end up.

Possibly so, but I somehow doubt it. If she's trying for it, I believe that her wish is going to be denied at this stage.

The thing is that on the meta-level, Mami's role is fulfilled. Bringing her back now would send exactly the wrong message: The show is working to establish that being a MG leads to isolation, despair and death - not to battlerezzing friends fighting together in teamwork. It would also significantly lessen the impact of her death and make followup storytelling much more difficult.

No... I'd rather expect Sayaka's time to come now. My hunch about her story isn't too pleasant, either. I believe that she is going to wish for Kamijo-kun's recovery. However, it will be worded in such a way that after his recovery, he will not fall in love with Sayaka, like she wishes for. (Remember Mami's explicit warning from ep3?)

Instead, I expect him to move on, pick someone else, be cold and ungrateful to Sayaka and maybe even (if Urobuchi feels nasty) to give her a cruel rejection. Which leaves Sayaka crushed and stranded in the grinder for nothing. And for maximum impact, maybe in ep5, I'd expect Sayaka to become the demonstration object for "Magical Girl turns into a witch due to passivity". In any case, I'd expect Sayaka to be the first girl to jump in and get royally burned. Sorry to say, but I don't see her reaching the goal line. Fully true to the "Mahou Shoujo is a lonely business" tune that Mami already mentioned.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Considering all we've seen, Madoka becoming an MG could quite possibly lead to some serious shit. I'm starting to think she probably won't become one any time soon. Who knows, maybe that's the climax of the series....

The way I see it, Madoka's wish is going to be the only ray of hope for the entire show. So, if she can somehow become a Magical Girl without "committing" her wish prematurely, she might jump in in 2-3 eps. Still, I expect Sayaka to go first.

Maybe the trick is really to wish for becoming a Magical Girl, without wishing for anything else in addition. Maybe that way she becomes a "real" MG who has the ability to cause a true Miracle. Something along these lines.

[Miyuki-ism]

My only complaint now is that we'll no longer see any of Mami's awesome gunplay.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Maybe the trick is really to wish for becoming a Magical Girl, without wishing for anything else in addition. Maybe that way she becomes a "real" MG who has the ability to cause a true Miracle. Something along these lines.

I agree, but if something like this does happen, I think it should happen towards the end of the series, otherwise it would kill the suspense IMO.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I agree, but if something like this does happen, I think it should happen towards the end of the series, otherwise it would kill the suspense IMO.

Naturally. But it would enable Madoka to participate in the action in the earlier episodes without losing her "big bang" to use later. Let me put it this way: I would be very surprised if Madoka became a MG early while using up her wish early.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Mentar

The thing is that on the meta-level, Mami's role is fulfilled. Bringing her back now would send exactly the wrong message: The show is working to establish that being a MG leads to isolation, despair and death - not to battlerezzing friends fighting together in teamwork. It would also significantly lessen the impact of her death and make followup storytelling much more difficult.

I disagree. I think, if properly handled, resurrecting Mami would not interfere with the drama of her death, and could be used as a stepping-stone for even more drama. More importantly, however, I don't think it would make sense for Madoka to NOT wish for Mami to come back to life. Forget the meta-level: she just saw a friend gruesomely killed in front of her. She knows she has the power to bring that friend back. Do you really expect her to not use it?

[Hypernova]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Maybe the trick is really to wish for becoming a Magical Girl, without wishing for anything else in addition. Maybe that way she becomes a "real" MG who has the ability to cause a true Miracle. Something along these lines.

You are still forced to fight witches till you drop.

The only winning move is not to play.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

I disagree. I think, if properly handled, resurrecting Mami would not interfere with the drama of her death, and could be used as a stepping-stone for even more drama. More importantly, however, I don't think it would make sense for Madoka to NOT wish for Mami to come back to life. Forget the meta-level: she just saw a friend gruesomely killed in front of her. She knows she has the power to bring that friend back. Do you really expect her to not use it?

I'm no against this, but note the one talking in the preview is Sayaka, not Madoka... I expect Sayaka to be the one wishing for Mami to come back (or attempting to at least) next episode. Let's wait and see!

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

I disagree. I think, if properly handled, resurrecting Mami would not interfere with the drama of her death, and could be used as a stepping-stone for even more drama. More importantly, however, I don't think it would make sense for Madoka to NOT wish for Mami to come back to life. Forget the meta-level: she just saw a friend gruesomely killed in front of her. She knows she has the power to bring that friend back. Do you really expect her to not use it?

I know that you're quite invested in this rescue ^_^; ... and naturally I don't know what's going to happen any better than you. I simply don't believe that the story will allow this development. If Madoka seriously wishes for it, I expect Kyubey to tell her that he can't fulfill this wish.

Resurrecting Mami would lead to some kind of teamwork, which is the opposite of what the story wants - I'm pretty sure of that. The pressure on the girls will only INcrease, not DEcrease.

Originally Posted by Hypernova

You are still forced to fight witches till you drop.

The only winning move is not to play.

That would be some really cool and gutsy thing: The main character called Madoka Puella Magi never becomes a MG in the entire show

I wonder why I have such a hard time picturing that...

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I'm no against this, but note the one talking in the preview is Sayaka, not Madoka... I expect Sayaka to be the one wishing for Mami to come back (or attempting to at least) next episode. Let's wait and see!

The bet is on

10 hellfire roasted Kyuubey tails on Sayaka wishing for Kamijo's recovery instead, and getting royally screwed over with it.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

She knows she has the power to bring that friend back. Do you really expect her to not use it?

She also saw the price you have to pay for having that wish granted,would it be worth it considering your life pretty much becomes hell once you're a MG

[Decagon]

Wishing for no more witches and MG's seems nice.

[Clarste]

Sayaka was definitely getting excited about both the chance to help Kamijo and become a MG, but that excitement should be dampened now. Unless something bad happen to Kamijo in the next episode, she'll definitely not want to be an MG right now. Well, it is pretty likely that something bad happened to him though. They already foreshadowed it with her not being able to go see him.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Decagon

Wishing for no more witches and MG's seems nice.

*lol*

That was exactly my thought on how to screw over the system, but I thought it was too outlandish and completely unsupported by evidence, so I was putting it on a shelf. It would also allow for some wonderful bittersweet endings. Hint: Try to read the OP as something the committed Mahou Shoujo Madoka would hum to herself AFTER the resolution (which destroys the meatgrinder, but leaves her in the bitter loop)

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Decagon

Wishing for no more witches and MG's seems nice.

The best wish I've thought of is for the entire situation; Kyubey, the cause of the witches and the magical girls, the entire system, all of it, to have never existed in the first place.

If Madoka seriously wishes for it, I expect Kyubey to tell her that he can't fulfill this wish.

If that happens I think we are guaranteed a bad end. Kyubey said he would grant ANY wish, no matter what it was, no matter what miracle it required. For there to be any sort of even moderately happy ending, I am certain that it will revolve around taking advantage of a wish to defeat him. If there are things he can't do, or if he can pick-and-choose whether to grant wishes, then the girls are doomed from the start, and there will be nothing left for me here at all.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Clarste

Sayaka was definitely getting excited about both the chance to help Kamijo and become a MG, but that excitement should be dampened now. Unless something bad happen to Kamijo in the next episode, she'll definitely not want to be an MG right now. Well, it is pretty likely that something bad happened to him though. They already foreshadowed it with her not being able to go see him.

Is that really so? I could see her become a MG simply out of spite for Homura already. Those were tears of frustration, loss and anger, not of fear and fright. No, I'm sure she'll go for the Kamijo angle. Otherwise, what's the point in telling his story?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by totoum

She also saw the price you have to pay for having that wish granted,would it be worth it considering your life pretty much becomes hell once you're a MG

And seeing the parallels with the Faustian legend and looking at who is the guy who is writing the series, wishes could very well twisted horribly wrong.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Mentar

No, I'm sure she'll go for the Kamijo angle. Otherwise, what's the point in telling his story?

What about this: she wish for Mami back, but she comes back as a normal girl, and she has no family or friends whatsoever. At the same time, Kamijo begins to get worst, and now Sayaka has no wish to help him.

Wouldn't that kinda situation slowly push Sayaka into the darkside??

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

What about this: she wish for Mami back, but she comes back as a normal girl, and she has no family or friends whatsoever. At the same time, Kamijo begins to get worst, and now Sayaka has no wish to help him.

Wouldn't that kinda situation slowly push Sayaka into the darkside??

Possible too, but simply less likely IMHO. And why slowly push her into the darkside when doing it the other way is much more brutal and nasty? One thing this show has taught me is to look at every single line for information, and Mami gave a stern warning to be very careful when wishing for someone else's benefit, because you might end up hurt and not getting what you really wanted. It would be a hard slap for Sayaka to remember it after screwing up, but it would be a wasted line in your alternative.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Possible too, but simply less likely IMHO. And why slowly push her into the darkside when doing it the other way is much more brutal and nasty? One thing this show has taught me is to look at every single line for information, and Mami gave a stern warning to be very careful when wishing for someone else's benefit, because you might end up hurt and not getting what you really wanted. It would be a hard slap for Sayaka to remember it after screwing up, but it would be a wasted line in your alternative.

Ok, that seems reasonable. Alright, let's wait and see.

On a side note, I gotta say I'm really diggin this show

[herbert]

No, no, no. If anyone expects bad, good thing will happen (temporarily). If the fur ball is asked to bring back Mami in next episode, I believe it (not he, mind you) would say OK and do a good job of it. We would see the promised heart-warming happy reunion then find out sometimes later it is just an illusion or some sort after both of girls already boarded Titanic.