2012-01-05, 23:41 | Link #302 |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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An interesting case, ZnT-verse magic seems to be less powerfull on anti-personel level than Nanohaverse but also seems to be more complex and true to it's magical roots, which probably will cuase troubles when they attempt to dispell the runes. I wonder what could happen if TSAB's encounter with a sample of "True Magic" xD.
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2012-01-05, 23:57 | Link #306 | |
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I'd actually say that Nanohaverse magics is probably more complex and elaborate. Using detect magic on a Starlight Breaker would reveal that Nanoha is doing the equivalent of stacking multiple elements hundreds of times over. Most TSAB mages probably would appear as if they are more than Square Class Mages the moment they cast those kind of spells , especially when an Intelligence Device is involved. Indeed , could one make the analogy that the Mathematical Based version of Nanoha Magics is a far more elaborate and complex , and more profound version of the crude Geometircal systems the ZnT Verse use? I'd imagine that Nanoha and Co think in terms of Four Dimensional Tessarects , compared to the pitiful squares and other two dimensional geometric shapes ZnT mages operate under. Still , I'd imagine that the TSAB can sever a familiar contract , if need be , though it would not be easy. |
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2012-01-06, 00:49 | Link #309 | |
The Flame Crussader
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Of course the mathematicall spells, the greatly excersiced tradition on quick, combative spells and the adittion of intelligent magical staffs & weapons give the Nanohaverse mages/knights an enormous edge over ZnT-verse ones, save for few powerhouses.
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2012-01-06, 01:08 | Link #310 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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MCAs are not necessary to manipulate elements; they just make it trivally easy to convert your mana into a form of physical energy, without any training.
Kirche might have a Fire MCA, but she can still learn how to manipulate any of the other elements. |
2012-01-06, 02:02 | Link #312 | |
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So no . A square class ZnT mage does not have four elemental affinities of Earth , Fire , Water and Air in the Nanoha sense. I'd expect some of Fate's attacks , under a ZnT interpretation of magic to involve the stacking of dozens of elements , in the eyes of a ZnT mage. In Nanohaverse , even the simplest wand is a computer. I suspect ZnT mages are restricted severely by their mental capacity , a limitation that Nanohaverse Devices , even those of Storage Grade have transcended. As for the powerhouses , like Karin , I'd strongly suspect that a well trained and highly experienced non-Support AA Aerial mage should be able to take her on on equal terms. Subaru or Teena or Erio should be able to take her on with a fair chance of victory. Against S+ Mages like Nanoha , a curbstomp will ensure. And if a Strike-arts master get's in close , no ZnT mage will stand a chance. |
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2012-01-06, 03:22 | Link #313 |
Bibliophile
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Just reread through Force CH01 on a hunch. Thoma says that cross-dimensional communication cannot be done freely in the Ruwella reservation. Maybe Halkeginia has a similar natural issue? That would prevent Arf from simply 'porting out or calling for assistance.
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2012-01-06, 03:51 | Link #314 | |
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Or perhaps the world of Halkegenia are two dimensions that collided together six millenniums ago? If so , the elves might well have come from one dimension , and the humans another. Which allows for some potentially interesting reinterpretation of the genocide ritual - as more properly , a Dimensional Separation Ritual that Brimir attempted , but failed six thousand years ago. Here's another possibility too: as Arf is now drawing her Mana from Louise , she needs to relearn much of her spell arsenal all over again ,due to the unusual alienness of Louise's mana pool. Which means that Dimensional Transfer , something I presume is a very high level spell is something out of her reach until she get's very accustomed to using Louise's mana to power her spells. By which point she might just decide to stay with Louise just a little longer, regarding her much like one of the children she helped raise over the years.... Makes you wonder whether an older Arf will be much like Linith to the next generation... Even more interestingly , perhaps the more Louise masters control over her Void powers , the more access Arf has to her vast and devastating spell arsenal that she inherited from Fate. Or that she might have picked up during the decades she spent in the Infinite Library... |
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2012-01-06, 06:13 | Link #315 | ||
Adeptus Animus
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2012-01-06, 06:22 | Link #316 | ||
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Actually , it might be best to distinguish between usability and potentially capability. While I'd say that even Fate is potentially Capable of using Starlight Breaker , should she chose , I doubt it usable for her from the get go. In the same way , while Arf might be potentially capable of utilizing the full breadth of Fate's spell knowledge , it might not be usable to her at the very beginning , at least until she is aquainted with the unusual nature of Louise's magics. Furthermore , your argument could easily be extended to Broken attacks in Nanoha Force like Divide Zero. Are you also claiming that Divide Zero is possible with Nanoha's mana? Also , keep in mind that both Teena and Nanoha are using the same magic system , the Orthodox Mid-Childa style. Void Magics is likely very different , probably as alien as the Eclipse effect to Mid-Childan magics. |
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2012-01-06, 07:17 | Link #317 | |
Adeptus Animus
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Age: 36
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We know Breaker-type attacks are usable by more people than just Nanoha. Fate has one (Plasma Zamber Breaker), Hayate has one (Ragnarok Breaker), even the young Miura has one in Vivid (Bakken Breaker). Teana mastery of SLB post-StrikerS was not the difficulty of using scattered mana, but the fact that she only started learning it post-StrikerS in the first place. That, and SLB is compressing a huge amount of mana at a ridiculous rate. It's more the amount that explains the difficulty than the usage of another's mana itself. Just look at S1, where Nanoha does a more simple recharge of Fate's mana reserves with her own, and Fate having no difficulty using it. Again, a more simple nerf to Arf is that Louise herself simply does not now how to properly supply her familiar with mana. This is the Zero after all, the girl who at the start of the story couldn't perform magic if her life depended on it. Making Arf's recovery synonymous with Louise's growth is a natural line given this. |
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2012-01-06, 08:32 | Link #318 | |
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Though I still favor the option of having the Void being a highly unusual form of magic , in the same manner that the Eclipse Effect is bizarre by the Nanoha-verse standards , combined with the fact that Louise's ability to efficiently channel mana has been severely compromised. Even if Arf finds the solution within two weeks or a month (or sooner) , the next barrier then could be Louise's inefficient and highly clumsy way of using her magics. Still , given how intimate the connections between a Familiar and Master in the Nanoha-verse , Arf does have one huge advantage over almost any conceivable mentor. She can sense Louise's magic and possibly even be able to decipher quite alot behind her new mistress's problem , even without the Founder's Prayerbook. Speaking of which , how does the idea of the Founder Prayer Book being a very powerful inactive Lost Logia , based on similar principles to the Book of Darkness (uncorrupted) , sounds? |
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2012-01-06, 08:50 | Link #319 | |
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And Louise wouldn't want to release the control or connection with either one as a Void familiar, from how her personality is.
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2012-01-06, 09:00 | Link #320 | ||
Adeptus Animus
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I do agree that void magic could be seen as a highly unusual form of magic. While things like destruction and dispelling are things we've seen before, void magic does have necromantic spells if I recall, which is something alien to most TSAB magic. The closest thing we've seen were the mirages from SSX, and that was high-grade Ancient Belka tech. Making the founder prayer book a lost logia similar to the night sky is plausible, though any attempt at balancing goes out the window at that stage. Quote:
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