Learning Japanese

[Avatar of Dreams]

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

The explanation about "noun-adjectives" makes sense, as they are indeed not really used as nouns. So far I have noticed that all the "-na" adjectives mentioned are Sino-Japanese words, so maybe that is the rule.

Sorry, that rule doesn't work either(静かな、エッチな、いやな of the top of my head).

I'm not aware of any rule that separates the two types of adjectives. Usually you can tell just by looking though.

[Alchemist007]

There are exceptions to damn near any rule, and not just in languages!

[taurosground]

Newbie to Japanese here: Are there any sites/other places that you would recommend to an English speaker? Preferably free, thanks

[Alchemist007]

These are resources I could recommend to any level learner (chances are you'd start as an intermediate since it's kanji stuff). I recommend this to get some pronunciations of words you don't know (basically a kanji -> romanji converter): http://nihongo.j-talk.com/

Also you can enter kanji at the end of this url to get the wiki page on it if one exists: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/代

Just replace the 代.

Here's a list of common kanji: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_stroke_count

And of course google translate: http://translate.google.com/#ja|en

I'd be wary of that because it's easy for that thing to misunderstand too, so it's more of a helper than an actual translator.

[Kimidori]

classes stared later than expected but after 3 session, I'm now learned all the hiragana.

one thing I have to ask though: in the book I have, they translate "yashashii" (やさしい) as "easy", when I ask my teacher and she said it just mean "easy". but in anime, I often hear character use that word as "kind (ex: you're so kind)". are they just sound the same with different writing or something?

also, I surprised that she never heard of anime so I shown her ep 1 of "ef - a tale of memories". she really liked it and ask me if I can get japanese sub for it. anyone here know where to download a japanese sub track for the anime?

[erneiz_hyde]

It's similar with English's "Hard" I guess.

English isn't my first language, but I learned it quite early through games. So when in a class, I answered "Hard" instead of "Difficult" for what's the opposite of "Easy".

edit: btw, it's apparently a case of different word indeed: 易しい and 優しい. The latter is what you usually hear of "kind". The former indeed means "easy".

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

edit: btw, it's apparently a case of different word indeed: 易しい and 優しい. The latter is what you usually hear of "kind". The former indeed means "easy".

The kanji of "yasashii" are actually used rather rarely. Often you see the word in hiragana.

So it's probably most useful to treat it as one word with double meanings depending on context. English, too, have quite a few words like that.

/unless of course it shows kanji. Then you know the intended meaning.

[Kimidori]

anyone here have any tip or trick to read hiragana faster beside read more? my reading speed is pathetically slow right now. @_@

[AmeNoJaku]

Originally Posted by Kimidori

anyone here have any tip or trick to read hiragana faster beside read more? my reading speed is pathetically slow right now. @_@

Read kanji faster Now seriously don't worry about it, the "read more" tip will inevitably happen as long as you continue learning the language.

[Tougarashi]

Originally Posted by Kimidori

anyone here have any tip or trick to read hiragana faster beside read more? my reading speed is pathetically slow right now. @_@

For me, I let my friend who can read well to read aloud for me first. Then I followed and read with the pace she read.

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by Kimidori

classes stared later than expected but after 3 session, I'm now learned all the hiragana.

one thing I have to ask though: in the book I have, they translate "yashashii" (やさしい) as "easy", when I ask my teacher and she said it just mean "easy". but in anime, I often hear character use that word as "kind (ex: you're so kind)". are they just sound the same with different writing or something?

also, I surprised that she never heard of anime so I shown her ep 1 of "ef - a tale of memories". she really liked it and ask me if I can get japanese sub for it. anyone here know where to download a japanese sub track for the anime?

The yasashii for easy and the yasashii for gentle are not pronounced exactly the same (probably.. i haven't found out on this one specifically). Another good example of this is hashi (bridge) / hashi (chopsticks). If you think about it, Japanese is extremely limited in the sounds the language provides, so this happens quite a bit.

EDIT:

I just went on denshi jisho to see if they had pronunciations, and apparently, yasashii hito is an expression for a promiscuous person (using the 'easy' yasashii). Makes sense, but hadn't heard of that one before.

Originally Posted by Kimidori

anyone here have any tip or trick to read hiragana faster beside read more? my reading speed is pathetically slow right now. @_@

Theres still Katakana to go (which is way more irritating, at least for me) before Kanji. In any case, reading speed also has a lot to do with your familiarity with the language and seeing words (or in this case Kanji.. though I guess there is more spacing between words in Japanese than before). While it is important, I don't think you should be too worried about reading speed, focusing on increasing your reading speed is something that you would do if you were lagging behind your peers in reading, or after you have a good enough grasp to be reading a lot.

[AmeNoJaku]

Originally Posted by oompa loompa

The yasashii for easy and the yasashii for gentle are not pronounced exactly the same (probably.. i haven't found out on this one specifically). Another good example of this is hashi (bridge) / hashi (chopsticks). If you think about it, Japanese is extremely limited in the sounds the language provides, so this happens quite a bit.

Where did you hear that, I highly doubt that it is true. Was the source reliable?

Originally Posted by oompa loompa

I just went on denshi jisho to see if they had pronunciations, and apparently, yasashii hito is an expression for a promiscuous person (using the 'easy' yasashii). Makes sense, but hadn't heard of that one before.

Don't they use the same expression in English too? But yeah, sounding the same can lead to some "interesting" misunderstandings

[Seitsuki]

易しい　and 優しい are completely different things. Context.

[Avatar of Dreams]

Originally Posted by oompa loompa

I just went on denshi jisho to see if they had pronunciations, and apparently, yasashii hito is an expression for a promiscuous person (using the 'easy' yasashii). Makes sense, but hadn't heard of that one before.

I've never heard of yasashii being used that way ever. Maybe if you were to say it sarcastically you could imply that meaning...but 99% of the time everyone will just think you're saying that person is nice.

Ran a google search and could not find a single instance of it being used that way. It's either a obscure expression or that definition is unreliable.

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by Avatar of Dreams

I've never heard of yasashii being used that way ever. Maybe if you were to say it sarcastically you could imply that meaning...but 99% of the time everyone will just think you're saying that person is nice.

Ran a google search and could not find a single instance of it being used that way. It's either a obscure expression or that definition is unreliable.

The source is denshi jisho. I said I got it from there in the original post. and I said I hadn't heard of it before either.. which is exactly why I qualified it as apparently having that meaning.

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

Where did you hear that, I highly doubt that it is true. Was the source reliable?

Hate to break it to you buddy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pitch_accent

" So the sequence "hashi" spoken in isolation can be accented in two ways, either háshi (accent on the first syllable, meaning 'chopsticks') or hashí (flat or accent on the second syllable, meaning either 'edge' or 'bridge'), while "hashi" plus the subject-marker "ga" can be accented on the first, second, or be flat/accentless: háshiga 'chopsticks', hashíga 'bridge', or hashigá 'edge'. "

If you were asking about Japanese being limited in its syllables.. I couldn't find a source on the first google page.. but, I'm pretty sure its true (from experience speaking, listening, and studying). I think there are about 80 unique sounds not counting some katakana-specific ones. Thats one of the reasons why punning is so great in Japanese

[Alchemist007]

I don't want to put any false information out there but I do recall hearing the 'easy person' (sexually) before, I think it depends on how the sentence is structured.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by oompa loompa

Hate to break it to you buddy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pitch_accent

Check also the Talk page of that article, as well as how sketchy its sources are... IMPE from living in their country and using their language; yes, there is different pitch in Japanese, but its less consistent with dialects and kanji meanings, than individuals and their mood... we had a similar discussion over おう versus おお last year, and I stand corrected... pronunciation differences are at best random... the fertile ground for phd tax-wasters

[HoennSora]

I'm working on learning hiragana and I have a japanese version of Pokemon Sapphire which I'll work with to help learn better. I have begun weekly classes so that is something to look forward too

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Check also the Talk page of that article, as well as how sketchy its sources are... IMPE from living in their country and using their language; yes, there is different pitch in Japanese, but its less consistent with dialects and kanji meanings, than individuals and their mood... we had a similar discussion over おう versus おお last year, and I stand corrected... pronunciation differences are at best random... the fertile ground for phd tax-wasters

To be honest, I never bothered learning the pitch accents (because its pretty difficult to do), and have never needed to know them either. I was however, taught (told, and now read, on different occasions) that a structure to distinguish words with pitch accents exists within the language. Even if its not used that much, it is there as a legitimate, documented part of the language. I don't think its archaic either, the few people (IMPE living there as well) I talked to about this did tell me that this was the way you would differentiate between words.

[Avatar of Dreams]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

I don't want to put any false information out there but I do recall hearing the 'easy person' (sexually) before, I think it depends on how the sentence is structured.

When in doubt ask the natives:
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp...l/q12107106602

So far I'm getting an overwhelming 'no' on the whole 易しい人 = 'promiscuous' thing.

The reference source for Denshi Jisho seems to be based on a website with similar characteristics as wikipedia, namely, anyone can edit the definitions.
My guess is that someone misunderstood the meaning and wrote an incorrect definition.