[Manga] Chapter 404 Discussion

[james0246]

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

His face, as I said, is recognizable to Kisame. Also notice that Kisame says, "Mizukage, or rather Madara-san".

I take that to mean that it isn't commonly known that the Mizukage is Uchiha Madara. Not to the outside world, obviously, but perhaps even within the Hidden Mist. Zabuza seemed to have only heard of the Sharingan through reputation when he fought Kakashi yet he wanted to overthrow the Mizukage. He was also surprised to see that Sasuke was a survivor of the Uchiha clan massacre.

Well, I think that is stretching it a bit. You can have the name Madara without also possessing the name Uchiha. Maybe when Madara was in charge he called himself Madara Fishhead.

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

Not implying that he's a shapeshifter. I'm actually remembering something Itachi said about Madara being a living illusion.

My theory, for oh so long, was that Madara was like the anatagonist Lo Pan from the movie Big Trouble in Little China. In the movie, the dark sorcerer Lo Pan had been cursed by an Emperor of China to have an insubstantial body for all eternity...literally an immortal ghost who could not directly act on the world save through illusions and manipulations. But, Lo Pan found that there is a way to remove the curse, and regain his body and full power. And that is where the movie starts.

So, my theory for Madara was, that he died in the fight with Hashirama, but due to the fact that he had the EMS, his spirit, and Sharingan, was confined to the mortal realm. But, upon discovering the ancient sealing statue, Madara found a way to ressurect his body and consequently his full powers.

Sadly enough, to many things have happened for me to actually believe in this theory anymore, but it was fun while it lasted.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by reloaded

The more I think about it the more this seems like starwars.

Pein = The phantom menace guy
Jiraiya = Qui-Gon Jinn(killed by the p.menace)
Naruto = Obi wan(needs to avenge his master)

Madara = the evil emperor
Sasuke = Anakin(went to the dark side)

LOL yeah!

But I am quite sure many of you notice..

Pein resembles Naruto and Madara resembles Saskue

[neoeagle]

He fought the 1st hokage and all his tailed beasts and he SURVIVED.

He is the strongest person in naruto universe by my book.

[abazou]

so sasuke killed orochimaru cause he was evil and he refused to kill in his name but now sasuke is willing to join akatsuki and kill with no regrets? come on kishi... respect your readers

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by neoeagle

He fought the 1st hokage and all his tailed beasts and he SURVIVED.

He is the strongest person in naruto universe by my book.

Madara never fought the tailed beasts...Matter of fact it was the opposite. Madara had the NINE-tails against the First Hokage and he beat BOTH of them.


Madara is a loser.

[nines]

Yea Madara seems like hes strong but even with the kyuubi on his side he lost to the 1st. Atm even if madara can controll the kyuubi he will loose to naruto hard core I bet now. If he has the power to controll the kyuubi that must mean he has some level of the Sharingan so he can counter Madara and Sasuke. No matter how you look at it even if Sasuke gets a Bijuu now Naruto will have kyuubi and Akatsuki jutsus in his hand with UNLIMITED CHAKARA. The series Naruto has givin him the name because he is strong enough to become Hokage and own everyone and everything around him.

[cheese no koma]

Like it or not, Naruto is the only thing standing between hawkatsuki and world domination, as the the last defender of konoha he'll win EVERY fight starting right about..................now............maybe....... ....

[Slave0fLife]

I am curious to know, now that the First has been hyped up even more than any other character in this series, why did he lose to Sarutobi when Orochimaru summoned him. I don't remember if they were not the perfect reincarnation of the Hokages, if it was stated someone please correct me. But damn, he defeated Madara with those uber-hyper-mega-eyes + Kyubi and apparently had the other Bijus under his control.

I have to add that I find it funny that some people are trying to make Madara the most powerfull guy in the Narutoverse. Since the First is one the good-guy side of the story, he probably defeated Madara, and let him live (I emphasize the LET, as in "gave permission") doing whatever.

[Sakuranbo]

Originally Posted by Slave0fLife

I am curious to know, now that the First has been hyped up even more than any other character in this series, why did he lose to Sarutobi when Orochimaru summoned him. I don't remember if they were not the perfect reincarnation of the Hokages, if it was stated someone please correct me. But damn, he defeated Madara with those uber-hyper-mega-eyes + Kyubi and apparently had the other Bijus under his control.

Because during that fight, Shodaime & Nidaime had the obvious advantage over Sarutobi throughout the entire fight, and that Eternal Darkness Jutsu (whatever its called) made things worse, finally forcing Sarutobi to use the 4th's reaper death seal to remove the souls from the sacrificed bodies. If Sarutobi had not have done that then yes the First (and the Second) would have "won" so-to-speak.

[grey_1960]

There are alot of thing that don't make sense and sasuke can't be that stupid to fall for one side of the story. This is a guy who went against Orochimaru, Diedera, and Itachi.
i don't think he will go after konoha after finding out his brother was trying to protect it and him. His goal is to revive Uchia (and is other goal possibly is to destroy the elder and danzou if he wasn't trying to trick Madara). I think sasuke will betray madara Uchia by helping konoha and when he is good and ready and as made the rest of the konoha believe he is good he may go after the elders and danzou.

[Peinkage]

Originally Posted by Slave0fLife

I am curious to know, now that the First has been hyped up even more than any other character in this series, why did he lose to Sarutobi when Orochimaru summoned him. I don't remember if they were not the perfect reincarnation of the Hokages, if it was stated someone please correct me. But damn, he defeated Madara with those uber-hyper-mega-eyes + Kyubi and apparently had the other Bijus under his control.

I have to add that I find it funny that some people are trying to make Madara the most powerfull guy in the Narutoverse. Since the First is one the good-guy side of the story, he probably defeated Madara, and let him live (I emphasize the LET, as in "gave permission") doing whatever.

They really were not perfect cause I don't think Orochimaru perfected his Jutsu.

[mayhem]

If minto was the best, and madara got owned by the 1st, makes you think what kind of juggernaut naruto will be if he surpasses his father like they hint at in the series.

probably the last battle.

[svinpaels]

eyetransplanting beeing mentioned so much it makes me think madara may have transplanted blackhairedboy eyes into whitehairboys... just a thought, off topic one but oh well.... would have explained why there were no blackeyedgrownupboy but still a whitehaired boy with rinnegan

[ChojinLocke]

Originally Posted by The Phenomenol

Madara never fought the tailed beasts...Matter of fact it was the opposite. Madara had the NINE-tails against the First Hokage and he beat BOTH of them.


Madara is a loser.

Have you been doing selective reading? It was stated that the First had several chakra beasts under his control which he later relinquished to other nations for diplomatic reasons. Which would mean in his fight against Madara he relied on external help as well (it would appear like their fight was a pokemon one like Jiraya versus Pain - quite interesting for those who like pokemon). By the way was it you who said that the First let him live? Dubious since Madara said that everyone thought he was dead including the First which would imply that he cheated certain death somehow.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by ChojinLocke

Have you been doing selective reading? It was stated that the First had several chakra beasts under his control which he later relinquished to other nations for diplomatic reasons. Which would mean in his fight against Madara he relied on external help as well (it would appear like their fight was a pokemon one like Jiraya versus Pain - quite interesting for those who like pokemon). By the way was it you who said that the First let him live? Dubious since Madara said that everyone thought he was dead including the First which would imply that he cheated certain death somehow.

...Is that what happened? I did not get that. Rather, Madara's comments implied, to me at least, that he struck against Hashirama during the moment he through Hashirama was at his weakest (after giving up the Bijuu), much the same as Sasuke's attack on Orochimaru was delibrately thought out.

While Madara did say that Hashirama had control over the beasts, it was also said that he spread the control, and it is implied that he spread the control upon the creation of Konoha to the 5 Great Nations (where the current 5 Kages are) and then the other 4 to various smaller villages. While the chronology that Madara has stated is a little confusing, it seems that Hashirama had released all of the tailed beasts, save the Kyuubi, to the other villages upon his ascension to Hokage-dom. And, that is when Madara struck against Hashirama, after he had given up control of the other Bijuu, leaving the Kyuubi to himself, only to then learn that Madara could control the Kyuubi better than Hashirama could resulting in the VotE fight.

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by ChojinLocke

Have you been doing selective reading? It was stated that the First had several chakra beasts under his control which he later relinquished to other nations for diplomatic reasons. Which would mean in his fight against Madara he relied on external help as well (it would appear like their fight was a pokemon one like Jiraya versus Pain - quite interesting for those who like pokemon). By the way was it you who said that the First let him live? Dubious since Madara said that everyone thought he was dead including the First which would imply that he cheated certain death somehow.

Lol. It was a pokemon battle.
Hashirama: Shukaku, I choose u! Quick attack!
Madara: Kyuubi. Dodge! Use Confuse Ray!

(later)
Ma and Pa Toad: Jiii-gul-e-Puff Ji-gul-leee Puff

[abazou]

Originally Posted by nines

Yea Madara seems like hes strong but even with the kyuubi on his side he lost to the 1st. Atm even if madara can controll the kyuubi he will loose to naruto hard core I bet now. If he has the power to controll the kyuubi that must mean he has some level of the Sharingan so he can counter Madara and Sasuke. No matter how you look at it even if Sasuke gets a Bijuu now Naruto will have kyuubi and Akatsuki jutsus in his hand with UNLIMITED CHAKARA. The series Naruto has givin him the name because he is strong enough to become Hokage and own everyone and everything around him.

Own what dood, please have you not been reading the series for the past 2 years?

[mils170]

point blank this show is going to end with naruto being the best ninja. its not called Naruto for nothing

[cheese no koma]

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

Lol. It was a pokemon battle.
Hashirama: Shukaku, I choose u! Quick attack!
Madara: Kyuubi. Dodge! Use Confuse Ray!

(later)
Ma and Pa Toad: Jiii-gul-e-Puff Ji-gul-leee Puff

lmao, no!! kyuubi should have used flamethrower!!

[mahbod]

SUPER SAIYAN RASENGAN KYUuBI CHAKRA