2010-02-12, 08:25 | Link #6081 | |
Crazy but OK xP
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands
Age: 31
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so that isnt 6 years since there is a meeting every year. |
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2010-02-12, 09:33 | Link #6082 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Hmm... just to be clarified on the mysteries here:
1) Are double-bodies even allowed or possible at that day and time? 2) In Episode 1; 1st Twilight, can anyone explain the key mystery? If the culprit were pretending to be dead inside the Warehouse, then how can they put the key back? Unless it's a body-double, which is hard to explain.
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2010-02-12, 09:39 | Link #6083 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Ah... yes. For another thought, does the One-Winged Eagle have ANY signifigance regarding the epitaph or mystery?
When I first started this game out, I was expecting some deep mysteries in the symbol, the epitaph, etc. etc. I don't suppose if we play around the One-Winged Eagle (the head, the leg, the chest. . .) along with the epitaph, any clues? Just a thought.
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2010-02-12, 10:28 | Link #6084 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
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This is Nazi Party's Insignia - Parteiadler: Can you think of anything now?
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2010-02-12, 12:22 | Link #6087 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Again, it also opens up cans of worms like 'who said the letter is a letter' etc. Red text doesn't work as a literary device if it doesn't do what you say it does. Ryuukishi knows this, and has, up until Episode 6, not resorted to tricks with it where something actually means something completely different. I'm not referring to 'persons' with this, btw, because as much as I hate to admit it, 'person' does refer to 'personality', not the body of a human. Quote:
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2010-02-12, 12:34 | Link #6088 | |||
Kupo
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sleeping
Age: 32
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If you're talking about "boku datte", isn't that his reaction to Jessica backing him up? Call me naive but I thought EP6 pretty well exposed that as a deliberate red herring with all the emphasis on that phrase.
Where exactly is this stated? I don't remember this O_o. Quote:
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A small fertilizer bag, yeah, he should be able to handle that, but if it was a bigger and heavier bag (which it likely was because of the size of that garden) it's realistic that he could be having problems, especially if he's got a "late bloomer" build. That and I don't see any reason at all for him to be a girl, honestly . Unless Ryu just loves yuri that much. (or Shkanon, like you said) Quote:
Then again supposedly she doesn't know that Kinzo is dead, but that's different because she doesn't really give a crap about him.
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Last edited by ameskitty; 2010-02-12 at 14:14. Reason: was going to post this earlier |
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2010-02-12, 14:07 | Link #6089 | |
Junior Member
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If you are talking about the definition of the word ''person'' we would need a translation to clarify the applications in japanese of the corresponding word. But as far as i know, both Shannon and Kanon are counted as differente ''people'' nor ''persons'', and ''personas'' cant really die or be counted, because its plain obvious that in Shkanontrice if they counted the Kanon personality they would have to count the ''Beatrice'' personality too... |
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2010-02-12, 14:25 | Link #6090 | |
I know we have bread!
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chicago
Age: 40
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Answer for #2: You don't even need a body double! It is easy to explain if the (living) person inside of the garden shed was not working alone. In other words, person A (Shannon?) was locked alive in the shed and accomplice B puts the key away. Person A's death was then misdiagnosed (intentionally) by accomplice C as dead (Hideyoshi/Nanjo?). They all lock up the shed, and then accomplice D (whoever) unlocks it, freeing person A. |
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2010-02-12, 16:14 | Link #6092 | ||
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Age: 31
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(used in EP4 Tea Party when Battler argues EP1) I think this implies that they do not exist at least for the first episode. Quote:
There are no unidentified corpses, and all of the survivors have alibis! Shannon would have to be A as Battler doesn't identify her, (he also doesn't check Hideyoshi in the second twilight but thats probably not necessary, no point in also suspecting Nanjo since its not required), Hideyoshi is C (though it may not even have been intentional) as Nanjo doesn't check Shannon. B is interesting since Natsuhi is the one to take the shed key so she would be it. She would also be D since she leaves for 'Father's study' when they all gather in the parlor. The accomplice list looks a tad strange to be honest but Natsuhi is shot at the very end and Hideyoshi is presumably killed. I thought Natsuhi's 'innocence' may have been universal though. Oh well. Either way, I can't consider a better possibility for the key mystery especially when yours works so well Last edited by Pinguma; 2010-02-12 at 16:27. |
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2010-02-12, 16:29 | Link #6093 | ||
Purupurupiko-Man
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: My beloved hometown, the mackerel river running through it
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Spoiler for character by character:
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2010-02-12, 17:13 | Link #6094 | |||||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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What I'm saying is that they're referred to as corpses because everyone considers them corpses. Umineko has a couple of underlying themes about how the truth changes if everyone believes something to be true, stuff like that. Quote:
I just think that something has to be up with the first twilight bodies in Ep3, since the only one Battler ever witnesses (and that the viewers are shown) is Shannon's. Quote:
You know, sometimes I wonder if everyone isn't working together just to hide some secret from Battler, given the amount of contradictory information he's given. Quote:
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What I noticed was that padlocks like that generally include an extra key, in case one loses the original. Genji most likely has full access to that shed. |
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2010-02-12, 17:18 | Link #6095 | ||
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Age: 31
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Hideyoshi seems a bit unlikely I thought, as you noted there are several explanations, and I'm not sure why he would know. I think it may be more likely for George to be clueless based purely on the fact he is on the island less whereas Jessica is, and he supposedly went on dates with Shannon so it would just be one person. He would not HAVE to know her secret. Jessica would be moreso in on the conspiracy since its been highlighted that she knows about them quite a lot, remains on the island, even growing up with them? (if Shkanon exists). Also, its moreso the general idea of simply 'observing'. Unless for example Rosa directly spoke to them, I don't think she would be in on the conspiracy. In EP2 Shannon holds out the memo of 'chapel' and then it shows Kanon sprite show up, he says something and point at the stuff on the chapel. It may just really be the same person since Rosa did not necessarily acknowledge Kanon due to the third person writing style. About 'Kinzo', well she may be in on that but not necessarily so, there is my crazy idea of Rosa being replaced which I talk about in my theory when she goes to the study alone. Also, the Kinzo conspiracy is to hide from the other adults, which does not bode well if Rosa knows about it. If she learnt of his death when she went to the study, it was still after the chapel scene. Otherwise though, Rosa is a decent case since she is also quite likely to be a culprit/accomplice with the aid of Shannon in EP2, so I'd think she is 50/50. Personally I don't know what my view is on the matter of Shkanon, and I haven't read EP6 so I apologise if I have said something stupid Quote:
The red: Regarding the unidentified corpses, all of their identities are guaranteed. Therefore, no body double tricks exist! Even though the second sentence is referring to the previous statement, could it not be taken to be the case for the general murder? I also thought the unidentified corpses referred to not only those Battler observed, but also the fact that the faces were smashed/half-smashed so Krauss would be included (if it were the case.) About Shannon 's existence I'm unsure since there is the whole 'thing' at Hideyoshi's feet and it does seem strange if he just said it was Shannon unless he simply concluded it because she was not amongst them. Last edited by Pinguma; 2010-02-12 at 17:46. |
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2010-02-12, 18:49 | Link #6096 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Natsuhi Genji Nanjo Kanon Shannon Kumasawa Krauss Jessica (extremely unlikely she didn't notice) Rosa (EP2 she sees him) not to mention EP4, All of those who met at the family conference recognized the existence of Kinzo! right maybe they have just seen a dead body, but that's not what Kyrie said, so you can add Kyrie as well. Oh, forgot... Maria in EP4 says Kinzo gave her the umbrella. That makes 11 out 17 people, or 10 out of 16 (depending on what you believe). That's more than half. As for Shkannon you only need: Genji Kumasawa Nanjo Jessica Natsuhi Krauss Kyrie there is absolutely no reason to say that those who do not live in Rokkenjima or the dimwitted Gohda know anything about that. Quote:
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2010-02-12, 18:53 | Link #6097 |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Kinzo would need to be included in the Shkannon list - Kanon came to the island in 1983 and Kinzo only died in 1985.
My big thing is that why would Natsuhi and Krauss give two paychecks to one person? Plus wouldn't Natsuhi realize that the fact that Kanon is alive in EP 1 after Shannon dies means something pretty important about Shannon and her status of alive or dead. Also, why did you include Kyrie on the list? |
2010-02-12, 19:11 | Link #6098 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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If Natsuhi and Krauss know of course they are not giving 2 paychecks ^^;
And yes Kinzo must know as well, actually it's probably his idea since Kanon and Shannon are said to be Kinzo's furniture, however he's not one of the "persons inside the island" at the time of the game. I have included Kyrie because she acknowledges the existence of both Kanon and Shannon being alive with her trapped in the underground prison. 'though I guess there might be two ways to get around it: 1) Kyrie is just taking part of the "fake murder conspiracy" and she's been told to tell that Shannon and Kanon are both with her even if they aren't. 2) it's not Kyrie who is talking but someone who can fake her voice. However those are not very probable so I'll just say that Kyrie knows. Episode3 is a different case as well with Ep1 Shannon corpse in the shed, because well those are corpses and they can be faked with things that resemble corpses like waxwork statues or the likes.
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2010-02-12, 19:11 | Link #6099 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Does Kyrie ever talk with Shannon and Kanon? She spends most of her time with the adults I think. I don't remember her ever talking to any of the servants other than Gohda and Genji. Well maybe she spoke to Shannon once in episode 2, but I don't think she's ever said anything to Kanon.
Well besides episode 4. But I regard the prison scene as being fake.
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2010-02-12, 19:14 | Link #6100 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Also if Kyrie knows then she's yet again under suspicion for being involved in the murders >__> |
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