Bleach Episode 258 Discussion Thread

[Mitsuomi1971]

Amagai arc was better than this arc imho...the only reason people are freaking out about this is because they got to see zanpakuto in human forms...but I see most got over that real quick...as I said months ago...Kenpachi..nothing new...all of the Captains and Vice Captains...other than the lame materialization of their zanpakuto...again, nothing new, no Bankais, no Captains or VC's died...as I predicted, duh...TheWanderer...you keep saying that anything is possible in anime original eps...no it is not...the original part of the name...is a lie. I have seen these Bleach fillers copy word for word in some cases other shows by Jump, such as Yu Yu Hakusho...all this is, is a cash cow. I loved Bleach when it started airing, it was intense, everything was new and exciting...now it is as if even Kubo and the animators take the characters for granted. I have to say that Bleach has been letting me down, who cares? I do...

[Kafriel]

nothing new

To be fair to this arc, there were quite a few hints to canon material and Kouga, whose entry was the same as Amagai's: exceptional shinigami that went bad. You can also compare tojuu to the bakouto, the biggest difference between the zanpakuto tales and the amagai arc was Lurichiyo's side story, which wasn't that good.

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by Mitsuomi1971

Amagai arc was better than this arc imho...the only reason people are freaking out about this is because they got to see zanpakuto in human forms...but I see most got over that real quick...as I said months ago...Kenpachi..nothing new...all of the Captains and Vice Captains...other than the lame materialization of their zanpakuto...again, nothing new, no Bankais, no Captains or VC's died...as I predicted, duh...TheWanderer...you keep saying that anything is possible in anime original eps...no it is not...the original part of the name...is a lie. I have seen these Bleach fillers copy word for word in some cases other shows by Jump, such as Yu Yu Hakusho...all this is, is a cash cow. I loved Bleach when it started airing, it was intense, everything was new and exciting...now it is as if even Kubo and the animators take the characters for granted. I have to say that Bleach has been letting me down, who cares? I do...

;_;

You need a manhug.

COME HERE.

Originally Posted by Kafriel

To be fair to this arc, there were quite a few hints to canon material and Kouga, whose entry was the same as Amagai's: exceptional shinigami that went bad. You can also compare tojuu to the bakouto, the biggest difference between the zanpakuto tales and the amagai arc was Lurichiyo's side story, which wasn't that good.

^ this.

[Gin]

Originally Posted by Mitsuomi1971

Amagai arc was better than this arc imho...the only reason people are freaking out about this is because they got to see zanpakuto in human forms...but I see most got over that real quick...as I said months ago...Kenpachi..nothing new...all of the Captains and Vice Captains...other than the lame materialization of their zanpakuto...again, nothing new, no Bankais, no Captains or VC's died...as I predicted, duh...TheWanderer...you keep saying that anything is possible in anime original eps...no it is not...the original part of the name...is a lie. I have seen these Bleach fillers copy word for word in some cases other shows by Jump, such as Yu Yu Hakusho...all this is, is a cash cow. I loved Bleach when it started airing, it was intense, everything was new and exciting...now it is as if even Kubo and the animators take the characters for granted. I have to say that Bleach has been letting me down, who cares? I do...

Amagai arc was garbage, the beging was shit, the middle was shit, and the end was shit. "oh no, I´m sad so I´ll go kill myself like a bitch"
At least this arc started out good, it just went bad as soon as Kenpachi showed up.

[Mitsuomi1971]

Amagai while wrong, at least had what he felt was a valid reason for revenge...the murder of his father by the head of the Gotei 13, as for killing himself "like a bitch" as you so quaintly put it Gin is simply my point in action, they had to kill off Amagai, because it would be too confusing to keep him in canon eps, while the mod souls are easy to pop in as they have no effect on the outcome.
Which is my point all along, nothing new will happen in anime original eps of course if I don't list my exact meaning of this statement I am sure TheWanderer will pop in and say oh sure we see new stuff all the time lol...I am meaning Captain and VC bankai's not previously shown in canon eps or manga issues, I mean no canon character who is alive in the manga will ever die in the anime original eps, and if somehow they do pull that off, they would immediately be brought back to life somehow. meanwhile as for Kouga, he is just a prodigy turned emo wacko because no one gave him a posistion quickly and he felt like he was better than everyone else. But regardless of these individual arcs comparing to eachother, it is not really meaningful...my problem is simply that the anime original material has been really poor...I just liked Amagais' story better. That does not make it good for everyone.

[Kafriel]

meanwhile as for Kouga, he is just a prodigy turned emo wacko because no one gave him a posistion quickly and he felt like he was better than everyone else.

He wanted revenge for the injustice brought upon him by Gotei 13...somehow rings a bell. He also had hax skills like Amagai, and his share of pride, also like Amagai. Where Kouga had Muramasa, Amagai had Kifune. Instead of holding Lurichiyo hostage, he took all the zanpakuto...in the end everyone went insane with a small moment of lucidity. To me, all anime original arcs were good, because Aizen was absent from those and my favorite was the Bount arc, for getting Ishida some much needed screen time as the underdog and having some good fights.

[wingdarkness]

You see back when I used to support TheWanderer’s position was when Bleach’s filler was still pertinent…I mean I’ve always hated the stigma associated with then word “filler” because every single piece of media ever created uses some form of it…You read Moby Dick, there tons of $hit you go through before Ahab spears the fish…there’s nothing you can read or watch that doesn’t have inconsequential material that is used to balance things out…It’s a necessary evil that’s sometimes an absolutely essential device…Furthermore there are certain “filler” episode that serve to enhance characters or themes that fans grow to like that the author may not have considered to be that important until after the fact…Filler has and serves a purpose, but when it fails is when it no longer serves any purpose to the core of the work…

Bleach’s current filler and last few filler arcs serve no purpose as the 4th wall has been blatantly kicked down… So when you defend this $hit you aren’t defending the truth behind what filler can be…Obviously Naruto opened the gate for this as it was the most overt attempt at stalling in anime history, but Bleach is also entering that pantheon to the point their may be more filler than actual original content, and it kinda sucks…Trying to find particles of glitter in an otherwise husky clump of toilet food isn’t a task to be defending…And Bleach’s current filler is far closer to that than it is too what I honestly thought TheWanderer used to want to defend…There is no defense for what we are currently seeing even if a scene here or there is cool….

[Kafriel]

Some people don't watch bleach for the nearly non-existent plot or the shallow characters, they just enjoy cheap animation, huge tits and J-tunes. If THIS kind of filler was on OP, someone would have to bleed...but this is bleach, anything goes and it doesn't make a difference.

[Thewanderer]

Erm... what's all this talk about me?

You guys don't seem to understand one bit of why I defend them. I don't really see a reason to bother trying to futilely explain it over and over again. While I find it wrong in how people around here are approaching these episodes critically, you're still gonna sit here and generalize them like there's no tomorrow. ;_;

[wingdarkness]

@TheWanderer – So when we agreed I was specific, but now that I disagree I’m generalizing?? You fought the good fight man, but the show is betraying you…You're defense of this show is even more general given the dynamic shift in what "filler" has become (Currently and recently that is)...

@Kafriel - Even thru the lens of big tits and cool swords moves…Those big tits and cool animated sword moves are better when the arcs actually encompass something true to the show itself…Bleach has always been a character-based style over substance anime…No one should be foolish enuff to believe otherwise, but as paper-thin as some of it’s themes have been they have never been as transparent as we are currently witnessing…But if people are still gonna eat this $hit up then that is what it is..trust me, it’s just 20 mins. Out of your life anyways that’s why I still watch, it just isn’t 20 mins worth a dman much anymore….

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by Gin

At least this arc started out good, it just went bad as soon as Kenpachi showed up.

blashpemy! it went bad as soon as it turned away from the rebellion part, possibly even sooner when it was too much GETSUGA TENSHOU!!! and Scatter...Senbonzakura

they had to kill off Amagai

no they didn't, they could of written him off as leaving like they did w/ the lady scientist and Mr. T from the Bounto Arc, they went into hiding or whatever.

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

@TheWanderer – So when we agreed I was specific, but now that I disagree I’m generalizing?? You fought the good fight man, but the show is betraying you…You're defense of this show is even more general given the dynamic shift in what "filler" has become (Currently and recently that is)...

That's exactly what I'm talking about... why do you feel the need to group episodes/arcs up like that? That's the generalization I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

no they didn't, they could of written him off as leaving like they did w/ the lady scientist and Mr. T from the Bounto Arc, they went into hiding or whatever.

The Bount arc was nothing like the Amagai arc. The Bount arc was in the anime continuity/canon/timeline. Even then, they had choices. Although any drastic choices would have changed the following arc too much from the manga version of that arc. Whereas the Amagai arc is not in the anime canon/timeline. Ichigo & co knows Lurichiyo in the Amagai timeline, and presumably still interacts with her(see that 2-part seppuku/soccer episode), while in the main timeline, they've never met Lurichiyo. That little brat wasn't written out at all, but she wasn't introduced in the main canon timeline. Alternate timeline arcs(and characters within) can behave differently than main timeline arcs that were inserted in between each other... see what I'm saying?

I have a feeling no one does any more -_-

[MidnightViper88]

...

...the only thing missing from this episode were a couple of badgers and a mushroom...

My contribution to this thread

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

...

...the only thing missing from this episode were a couple of badgers and a mushroom...

My contribution to this thread

lol cause it already has the snake

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

That's exactly what I'm talking about... why do you feel the need to group episodes/arcs up like that? That's the generalization I'm talking about.

You're wrong...I didn't make a conscious choice to deregulate the filler arcs, the show made this choice...Overtly I might add...The rubber no longer met the road and the Bleach brass decided to alternate between tangible continuity arcs and intangible ones...That decision has obtusely changed the dynamic of the show...Shinigami Golden was always goofy and funny, but now it's a clear device used the break the 4th wall...

So for you to keep the same defense means either you don't care about the shift or you only care about defending bleach as a whole regardless of the product...What's more general than defending anything?? I'm being pretty darn specific about why the show has fallen IMO...I don't have some "need" to do this, this is apparent (Because of their blatant modus operandi right now)...I'd say 90% of this forum has subscribed to it, but you seem to ignore it...This has nothing to do with personal taste as much as it has to do with actuality...

I mean seriously have you not seen the absolute shift in the presentation of "filler" since I guess the end of the Vaizards in HS arc? I guess personally I wouldn't feel so bad if I found the arcs enjoyable, but it wouldn't change the clear shift that has taken place...Grouping is inevitable when earlier arcs didn't do what's happening now (Regardless of enjoyability)....

[Thewanderer]

^ Sooo... you don't like it that the anime is cutting to alternate continuities and breaking the 4th wall to acknowledge it?

No, I don't see what's wrong with it. It's not like it's taking up every SCG, and I find stuff like that funny. And it's not like anime original material could fit in that well in the middle of the FKKT arc. Maybe I don't understand what you're complaining about.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by TW

Sooo... you don't like it that the anime is cutting to alternate continuities and breaking the 4th wall to acknowledge it?

Uh, Yuuuuup...That's what's compromising the integrity of the show...But I think I pretty much explained everything else in detail...

And it's not like anime original material could fit in that well in the middle of the FKKT arc

And WHY would you make something that doesn't fit, fit? Geeez Louise...Why not plan ahead and make something that would fit? (Like backstory arcs on 1 of a thousand SS characters for instance, like a Gin) Wait for it...

Spoiler for Jesus Skywalker:

Because they don't giva $hit anymore...Atleast in the filler I used to agree with you on they gave a $hit, they don't anymore and that's evident in the presentation...That's why even people like me are finally pi$$ed

Yet every week you try and squeeze lemons from a balled up sock called Bleach...I don't get it anymore, but maybe that's how it's supposed to be...

/thread hijack over

[Kafriel]

Like backstory arcs on 1 of a thousand SS characters for instance, like a Gin)

Gin in particular is a high-class villain, I doubt you can show his past in an anime original episode...BUT you can do that to the majority of the SS screw. Now, this leaves the question of how to trigger it; while fighting, someone crashes into an old abandoned building (of FKT!?) and finds a secret gadget that takes them back in time?
In-continuity filler is very hard to produce, besides prolonging the manga scenes. That's because bleach, a battle manga, is in the middle of a war; you can't just walk out and change the entire arc. That's why they opted for out-of-continuity arcs, which offer a lot more freedom in plot movement: they can be at school, in SS, in HM, in outer space, anywhere they want. Plus, by relieving the characters of their current emotional charge, they can commence a new arc of indefinite length, thus increasing the arc's efficiency as filler.

[Mitsuomi1971]

The show just isn't what it used to be...no matter what anyone says. That is the point.
And yes we all know great scenes and fights are coming...one day perhaps...but I am tired of waiting...again, just my opinion but the studio knows they have a popular show and they are milking it dry...and I am quite sure, ruining it for some fans...I still like the show, but only because I am vested so to speak in some of the characters and their outcomes. I could just walk away now and come back in 200 eps.

[Thewanderer]

^ so does this mean you're back? <3