2010-11-08, 22:10 | Link #18601 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Quote:
Beatrice name being something thats inherited was introduced on that very episode, It might just be a red herring but its something to consider. As to who might still be alive by that time to inherit that name is a mystery! I like to believe that Maria survived that encounter by being resuscitated and then later locks window latches and doors to complete closed rooms. She later got really Happy and used a winchester to kill her former master and inherit her name but thats a little to much right? |
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2010-11-08, 22:11 | Link #18602 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Among the named 18 people on the island, living or dead, there is no one that could have killed Nanjo. And yet, Nanjo still died. This really shouldn't be that hard, but it appears we're the only three people in this thread. |
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2010-11-08, 22:16 | Link #18603 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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Think of it as a mystery story. Accident and chance and blind luck shouldn't be permitted in the detective's investigation. Why should we permit accident, chance, and blind luck in the machinations of the culprit? It's equally unfair and equally disappointing from a literary standpoint. If you're going to create an unbroken chain by faking your death three times as two separate people, your plan can't "possibly" fail. It must be set up such that it will not fail absent deliberate agency on the part of someone to uncover it.
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2010-11-08, 22:20 | Link #18604 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Quote:
I'm not saying it makes sense logically, and I'm not saying it would work in reality. As much as I hate to admit it, I'm saying that it works because it's fiction (within the context of the metaplot, even), and ridiculous one-in-a-million chances like that can happen within such a context. |
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2010-11-08, 22:22 | Link #18605 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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I actually think we must be less accomodating of chance in fiction. In any good mystery, if I'm the culprit and my plan requires that I incapacitate myself twice, I need a way to be certain that anyone trying to ascertain my death concludes that I am dead and then leaves me alone. Unless the behavior of the adults is controllable (and note that if it is controllable, the ninja act is not even necessary; they just lie about Kanon), you can't take that risk. I mean you can, but it's dumb from the perspective of the culprit-as-character and the author-as-scenario-inventor.
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2010-11-08, 22:23 | Link #18606 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Faking your own death has been used in detective novels by culprits before. It usually involved them doing it to get a rock solid alibi before they did the actual killings. Doing it twice in a row is a little too much but I wouldn't count RK07 doing it for the shock value.
Anyways I dont like to believe in the Shkanon thing because its been pretty obvious so far and everything that you tried to carry into Umineko from Higurashi almost always blew up in your face. Right now it would be a bigger shock to the readers to reveal that Shanon and Kanon really are two different people rather than the same. |
2010-11-08, 22:25 | Link #18607 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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Faking your death is fine. I'm just saying if you're doing it, make sure someone deciding not to leave the room doesn't totally hose you. Have a handler in the group that discovers you get people out of the area or make a situation so immediately important they can't stay there.
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2010-11-08, 22:26 | Link #18608 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Isn't this exactly what Nanjo is doing? |
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2010-11-08, 22:34 | Link #18609 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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If Nanjo did anything, the script doesn't say. The only things I can find are that they wake Nanjo before they go poking around (this is before any bodies are seen, so if anything it makes me more suspect of the parents than of Nanjo). And then later Battler's narration discusses what Nanjo's diagnosis was. As far as I know, no mention of anyone "handling" the adults comes up. Nanjo is one of the people who worries about closing up crime scenes, but he's not always the first to suggest this... it's often one of the adults...
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2010-11-08, 22:40 | Link #18611 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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Well there's what Beatrice says to Rosa in ep2. It could be any of the siblings. Any of the siblings who does what? Gets the letter? Usually Maria gets the letter. Who helps Beatrice? Who plays the role of the handler? Who gets contacted? We see it happen directly with Rosa and we see the immediate consequence of that (Rosa is the "survivor").
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2010-11-08, 22:48 | Link #18612 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Quote:
They're both stored right next to the radioactive gold, it's just that everyone was too stunned by its magnificence to pay much attention to their surroundings. |
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2010-11-08, 23:09 | Link #18613 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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Quote:
This is above Genji, Kumasawa, Nanjo, Shannon and Kanon who are already in on it. And probably Maria, Jessica and I'm starting to think even Krauss was in on it. On top of that, I think Rudolf knows something fishy is going on and would not be surprised if Kyrie also knows about his suspicions. 8) EDIT: This doesn't tell us anything too useful, as we all guess that the Epitaph game doesn't actually lead to murders. But we can use this theory to subtract what we thought were suspicious activities, that is Rosa lying about seeing Kinzo, for example. |
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2010-11-08, 23:31 | Link #18615 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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I'm TRYING to suggest that the fact that Nanjo died at all would imply that there is a person on the island that we have never, ever seen.
Yes yes I know Mysterious Person X. That is exactly what the final reds in Ep6 tell us must be true, if you ask me. |
2010-11-08, 23:34 | Link #18617 |
The True Culprit
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I'm just amused by how people are acting like Yasu (assuming she's the culprit) relying on luck or anything is at all an asspull, considering roulettes and risky gambles and shit have been a plot point in Beatrice's character since day one. It's what "magic" is, and you can bitch and moan all you want about how that's not how a MYSTERY does things, but a MYSTERY story also doesn't have multiple planes of reality where non-objective memetic entities debate the genre of the story from a 4th wall perspective.
Ryukishi plays with the mystery genre, but he's made no attempt to make us think this work is compliant to it, or obligated to be so in any way. The only characters that really ever tried to make that claim was the bad guy and her furniture, and some other dude who realizes things can be way more lax if the setup allows for it.
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2010-11-08, 23:35 | Link #18618 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Quote:
Whoever it is must be Hachijou's informant, which she does have because there's no other way she could posses the information she does. |
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2010-11-08, 23:37 | Link #18619 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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HOLY FUCK! I've just realised something. So, in Umineko we've got a bomb, right? What's the name of one of the most famous bombs in history? Fat Boy.
Bomb = Fat Boy = George Ha! OH! That's entirely possible as well. You see, Asumu became a vengeful ghost like Oiwa from Yotsuya Kaidan. She's back to punish Rudolph, his mistress and to protect her child and those who were beloved to her.
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2010-11-08, 23:41 | Link #18620 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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I was mostly joking though. I like to think that the way EVA progressed the game to after Nanjo died when she proclaimed everyone dead means something.
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