Madoka Magica - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Sheba]

Random question because I want to be sure.

When Nerd Homura accidentally walked into the Witch's Maze for the first time, didn't the pattern on the floor match Picasso's Guernica?

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Random question because I want to be sure.

When Nerd Homura accidentally walked into the Witch's Maze for the first time, didn't the pattern on the floor match Picasso's Guernica?

I think so too.

[kamyu]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Despite skipping many pages, I must say that clumsy Homura with glasses and twin braids was really cute

Also the episode was excellent, plus it had some truelly hilarious moments, like Homura foregoing the allmighty Katana for modern firepower when ransacking the Yazuka lockers.

skipping the sword is kinda silly when you think about it. even if she primarily uses guns and bombs, it would be nice to have a backup weapon (especially since it all gets stored in hammerspace anyway).

also, her first go at using her powers had her using some golf club looking thing so we know she is able to attack with melee weapons with time stopped.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Random question because I want to be sure.

When Nerd Homura accidentally walked into the Witch's Maze for the first time, didn't the pattern on the floor match Picasso's Guernica?

That's definitely Picasso, but after checking for a while, the pattern doesn't match perfectly Guernica (the eye portion doesn't match it at all).

Originally Posted by kamyu

skipping the sword is kinda silly when you think about it. even if she primarily uses guns and bombs, it would be nice to have a backup weapon (especially since it all gets stored in hammerspace anyway).

also, her first go at using her powers had her using some golf club looking thing so we know she is able to attack with melee weapons with time stopped.

It is exactly that scene that actually can demonstrate why she skipped the bladed weapons: at that point, Homura was still a tad clumsy.
Even if firearms are not so easy to handle due to the recoil, it is less taxing than wielding wildly a sword, which can lead to hazardous damage, even self injury.

Using a melee weapon when the user is actually more comfortable with firearms isn't a good idea. And considering the hammerspace, she doesn't have any disadvantage with them (be it weight, ammo etc), so there is no reason for "back up weapons".

[Jimmy C]

Back in ep8, Kyubei said it was the second time Homura killed him.
So far, most of us have assumed that the shopping mall incident was the first time.
Yet, if we follow the events shown in ep10, Homura had to have killed Kyubei at least once in the 7 days prior to that.
Homura probably found out Kyubei had spare bodies in Timeline 4. Was she simply successful at hiding the fact that she was the killer until the attack at the mall?

[kamyu]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

It is exactly that scene that actually can demonstrate why she skipped the bladed weapons: at that point, Homura was still a tad clumsy.
Even if firearms are not so easy to handle due to the recoil, it is less taxing than wielding wildly a sword, which can lead to hazardous damage, even self injury.

Using a melee weapon when the user is actually more comfortable with firearms isn't a good idea. And considering the hammerspace, she doesn't have any disadvantage with them (be it weight, ammo etc), so there is no reason for "back up weapons".

i think being clumsy with a pipebomb would be a bit more dangerous than being clumsy with a sword. =P

even with a hammerspace full of guns, it still seems dependent on her restocking between battles. given a long enough fight (or chain of fights), she very well could run out of ammo. particularly with the pipe bombs since she apparently makes them herself.
although, this whole problem could go away if we extend her power to be able to replicate anything that she previously put into her hammerspace.

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

Back in ep8, Kyubei said it was the second time Homura killed him.
So far, most of us have assumed that the shopping mall incident was the first time.
Yet, if we follow the events shown in ep10, Homura had to have killed Kyubei at least once in the 7 days prior to that.
Homura probably found out Kyubei had spare bodies in Timeline 4. Was she simply successful at hiding the fact that she was the killer until the attack at the mall?

those were kyubeis from different timelines. when he said it was the 2nd time, it was the 2nd time, in that timeline. he wouldn't have any knowledge of any kyubie slaughter in the previous loop. it wasn't even until that conversation that he concluded that she was from a different timeline.

[SagaraSouske]

@ninjaxanbu, time line 3 is when both Homura and Madoka killed WPN and only One grief seed left. Madoka used on Homura and then ask her to kill her before she turns witch, which Homura did with her gun. So what u described already occured and caused a reset.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by kamyu

i think being clumsy with a pipebomb would be a bit more dangerous than being clumsy with a sword. =P

even with a hammerspace full of guns, it still seems dependent on her restocking between battles. given a long enough fight (or chain of fights), she very well could run out of ammo. particularly with the pipe bombs since she apparently makes them herself.
although, this whole problem could go away if we extend her power to be able to replicate anything that she previously put into her hammerspace.

In any case, Homura needs to protect herself as she likely needed to be alive in order to do a time reset. And it is a simple fact that melee is riskier than ranged combat. If you can choose between ranged or melee, and you want to say safe, ranged is the obvious choice. She just needs to bring enough ammo.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by kamyu

i think being clumsy with a pipebomb would be a bit more dangerous than being clumsy with a sword. =P

Not really, especially true blades in the hands of Naruto/Kenshin fans can be deadly

[kamyu]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

In any case, Homura needs to protect herself as she likely needed to be alive in order to do a time reset. And it is a simple fact that melee is riskier than ranged combat. If you can choose between ranged or melee, and you want to say safe, ranged is the obvious choice. She just needs to bring enough ammo.

and thats the catch.
range being the safer option is a moot point if she runs out of ammo (however unlikely you decide that possibility to be).
if we are talking about trying to stay safe then it would still be better to err on the side of caution and store a backup weapon. what harm is there in storing one "just in case" sword/bat/whatever along with the mountain of guns/bombs?

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Not really, especially true blades in the hands of Naruto/Kenshin fans can be deadly

consider how homura didn't even seem to consider the possible collateral damage of her pipe bombs until sayaka got pissed at her. ><

[neshru]

I see how this is gonna end now, Homura will find a way to keep the rest of the cast alive by sacrificing herself. The four of them together will kill that evil monster thing, and everyone will live happily ever after.

[FlavorOfLife]

After episode 10, i think the entire team makes a good first person shooter with the MS theme
Mami - Weak ranged (she keeps dying!) but can heal - Medic
Kyoko - Strongest melee, doesn't heal - Commando
Sayaka - Weak melee but self healing - Infantry
Madoka - Strong ranged - Sniper
Homura - Ranged plus bombs - Special Ops

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by kamyu

i think being clumsy with a pipebomb would be a bit more dangerous than being clumsy with a sword. =P

even with a hammerspace full of guns, it still seems dependent on her restocking between battles. given a long enough fight (or chain of fights), she very wll could run out of ammo. particularly with the pipe bombs since she apparently makes them herself.
although, this whole problem could go away if we extend her power to be able to replicate anything that she previously put into her hammerspace.

She can trigger her pipe bombs so they explode at a specific time. If the pipe bombs were your casual handmade with fuse, that would definitely much more dangerous, but these are timed ones. But even so, since these aren't in contact with her when she threw them, they will -never- detonate as long time is frozen, therefore she cannot harm herself at all.
Using pipebombs isn't really difficult to beign with, but in Homura's case, it is even less risky than it should be.

This is a drastic different situation with a sword, since swinging it the wrong way can easily cut your own limbs, and there is nothing she can do aside of stopping time freeze in that kind of situation.
Furthermore, using a melee weapon not only require body coordination, but also strength, stamina, and leaves you to close range with your enemy. The way how she was swinging a plain golf club was a testament of how she is very poor at handling close combat weapons in general. So a sword would lead to a devastating result.

It is actually a very annoying trend in anime in general: melee weapons don't turn you into an invincible fighter, it is actually making you much more vulnerable than any type of approach possible.
Carrying a sword for sake of "backup weapon" is nothing close to a proper measure. It is in fact a false safety measure that would give more problem to someone not proficient at all with these. In fact, if you have space for a "back up weapon", you would rather pick even more pistols etc instead. The point of a hammerspace nullify completely the needs of a "backup weapon" to begin with.

Also remember that she didn't try to be a main attacker, but rather supporting Mami and Madoka, and then giving the potential killing blow. It isn't like the number of bombs was her main concern.
This is also the reason why Homura changed her approach when she decided to go rambo: she has to defeat witches alone, thus she took a complete arsenal for herself. Considering the hammerspace, it is very unlikely she would have any ammo shortage.

By the way, it is obvious she didn't measure the possible hazard with her explosives because Mami and Madoka are ranged.
Sayaka wasn't a default MG to begin with, and as far as we were shown, Homura isn't trigger happy at throwing explosives like bomberman. Sayaka was insecure, wasn't trusting her so pushed the subject at hand alongside.

[ac195]

Originally Posted by jeroz

well, that's one intricate puzzle Urobuchi has set out.

a case of "damned if you do and damned if you don't". Hopefully the solution will be a masterclass and not a cop out.

Lets see... 3 manga series planned during the early stages of production... lets not kid ourselves here, $$$$!!!

My money is on a cop out... you don't kill the golden goose. Then again if you do... you can always "Rebuild" it... haha

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by kamyu

those were kyubeis from different timelines. when he said it was the 2nd time, it was the 2nd time, in that timeline.

I know that. What I meant was, when Homura started Timeline 5, which is the series proper, she ought to have tried to kill Kyubei within days of the 16th when she was released from the hospital. Because Homura knows Madoka contracted a week before she entered Mitakihara Junior High. Therefore, the attempt in the shopping mall in ep1 should have been number 2 and the one in the park in ep8 would be number 3.

As for Timeline 4, which leads to the prolog in ep1. Homura kills Kyubei before he contracts Madoka. But we know he doesn't give up easy. So it must have been a shock for Homura to see another Kyubei show up for the first time.

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by ac195

Lets see... 3 manga series planned during the early stages of production... lets not kid ourselves here, $$$$!!!

My money is on a cop out... you don't kill the golden goose. Then again if you do... you can always "Rebuild" it... haha

Having a conclusive ending doesn't mean killing off the golden goose. Spin offs like Kazumi Magica can always be made in an alternate universe.

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Sabato

Having a conclusive ending doesn't mean killing off the golden goose. Spin offs like Kazumi Magica can always be made in an alternate universe.

Given that Kyubey's race might be present on Multiple Planets , could it be that Humans have been seeded on numerous Worlds , and each World is essentially a Soul Farm ? In that case , the prospects are limitless- even more so if the Incubators are deliberately using and cultivating multiple time-lines as soul farms. Indeed , if Kyubey's race is harvesting numerous more alternate time-lines , the alternate continuities might very well may share the same Multi-Universal continuity as the anime continuities.

I also speculate that the Quota mentioned by Kyubey this episode is the amount of Entropy needed to be reversed before process of seeding humans reach a certain level of profitability . We might very well have Reserves. Unimaginable Billions of Worlds of humans where Mahou Shojos souls are being used as Entropy Free Energy sources. How's that from Grim Darkness?

[ThereminVox]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Homura didn't waste time in the hospital. And we don't know when Madoka made the contract after the first time.

Pretty much. They didn't spell it out, but given the timeline, we can pretty safely assume that Madoka doesn't contract until shortly after Homura wakes in the hospital. We even get a blink-and-miss-it shot of Homura's calendar each time. The first 3 timelines, they meet at school several days after Homura wakes, and Madoka is already contracted.

After Madoka asks Homura to save her from QB/herself, we get the transition from "Ho-moe" to "Homerun". She heals herself, presumably including her heart condition -- remember, in Ep01 she's an incredible athlete, and in the first timeline she can't even participate in gym -- and goes straight for QB, harassing him and preventing Madoka from meeting him until after her first day of school.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

That's why I only said "a bit of a bitch". Yes, it's understandable. But still damn unpleasant. I can't bring myself to approve.

Oh, I don't approve of it either. Sayaka was in the wrong there, in more ways than one. It's just that I don't think that Sayaka is a horrible person, and I think that we should be careful to not read too much into her overly harsh response there.

In fairness, I do think that it makes Homura's coldness towards Sayaka in Timeline 5 more understandable as a result of Sayaka's attitude towards her in Timeline 3 though.

I also suspect - though I may be unkind, there - that part of Sayaka's reason for pushing Homura away is her own insecurity. Homura was a bit of a pushover personality-wise, but she her time stop ability was potentially very powerful. Sayaka, OTOH, is rather limited as a magical girl. I wonder if she realized that? And, subconsciously, turned against Homura out of resentment?

Jealousy could be a factor yeah. But I think that it's not basic power jealousy, but more a case of status jealousy. In the timeline where everyone becomes magical girls and work together as friends, Sayaka may have been jealous of how close Homura was getting with Madoka and/or Mami.

Believe me, as a guy with two younger sisters, teenage girls can be a bit possessive of their closest friends and resent other girls getting closer to them than they are. It's almost on par with romantic jealousy sometimes.

Originally Posted by ThereminVox

Agreed, Timeline 3 is the big hope spot for Homura, and it's also a tantalizing reward to the audience because it's a brief glimpse at the Magical Girl team you might have expected from the show going in. Then of course, it subverts the Higurashi ending, since even though the whole team is united, everything goes to pot anyway. The lesson Homura takes, right or wrong, is that she can neither save everyone, nor depend on anyone, and that trying to do so is a sucker's bet.

I can understand Homura's position there. Except that after Timeline 4 she should know that it's not likely that she can handle Walpurgis Night on her own. Keeping Kyoko alive probably should have been a major secondary goal for Homura in Episode 9.

But this is just a minor complaint, really. As I argued before, Homura's overall situation is a very tricky one.

[Cosmic Eagle]

You know....Homura dying may not be the biggest worry here....Homura finally falling and turning into a Witch would be far far worse because the chances increase with every repeat doesn't it? It's also inevitable since her despair would be building up over and over.