Kimi no Iru Machi (A Town Where You Live)

[jzmagic]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Rage from readers. Who put themselves in Haruto position. It doesnt mean they have the same reaction as the Haruto. Its like for example in Zero No tsukaima lots of readers put in hero's Saito's shoes but it doesnt mean they all have masochistic tendencies and tsundere loli-love like Saito. Their reactions to the same situations are different.

Haruto did not feel rage but a lot of readers did.

Being dumped for another guy - sorry to break it on you, but thats a typical case of being NTR'ed.

Again, NTR is a complex genre, but having been around with plenty of eroge or h manga and doujins i think you would be able to tell those apart (well I am one of the uploaders on a few sites and since it usually requires tagging so you have to know the types more or less inside-out.

You are still a newbie so you dont get netorare term (and a lot of people don't want to get it as its too frustrating) and start puffing around that any manga would make NTR but its not true. However, KNIM really did ride the netorare story telling (I uploaded plenty of NTR doujins with the same storyline setting), it just didnt go all the way to NTR and excluded the physical contact, but all other aspects were there.

I'm inclined to agree with darknemo here. NTR isn't only limited to betrayal in the physical aspects (i.e. sex). Bottom line is she dumped him for another guy. If Seo had drawn an explicit sex scene between Eba and her boyfriend, would you still feel that its not NTR?

[Johnny]

Originally Posted by jzmagic

I'm inclined to agree with darknemo here. NTR isn't only limited to betrayal in the physical aspects (i.e. sex). Bottom line is she dumped him for another guy. If Seo had drawn an explicit sex scene between Eba and her boyfriend, would you still feel that its not NTR?

That's the statement right there. Not while she and Haruto were together, which would could be categorized as NTR I suppose. Who gives a rat's ass what happened after they've broke up. Just because Haruto couldn't get over it and move on doesn't mean he was NTR'ed. Plus he didn't have a problem with it much anyways. Would you be all chummy chummy with the guy you claim pulled a NTR on your ass? I don't think so. Well someone who was right in their mind...

Too much time wasted on a subject that I find pointless arguing over. You think it was I think it wasn't. Good for both of us as were allowed to have our own opinions. Dark's probably the most stubborn person I've seen in awhile, so talking won't accomplish anything anyways...

[Nemuru]

Originally Posted by jzmagic

I'm inclined to agree with darknemo here. NTR isn't only limited to betrayal in the physical aspects (i.e. sex). Bottom line is she dumped him for another guy. If Seo had drawn an explicit sex scene between Eba and her boyfriend, would you still feel that its not NTR?

I think its really quite shallow if you start applying NTR to everything in your life that doesn't go your way.......... A girl you like didn't give you chocolates on valentines day's NTR happen >.> lol.

shrug people are just adding their own definition over the year and perhaps this is more or less catering to otaku definition that will rage them over every single little things...

I don't consider bad writing an indication of proper characterization. Will Yuzuki do this again... probably no, shrug the entire betrayal thing was so extreme unless yuzuki has the worst luck in having lots of dying friends around here.

Okay I be reasonable and follow this little charade.. To the original OP that start this, I should quote but I'm slack but others did wrote that Haruto himself accept and acknowledge the situation and at the time he became Kazama best friends >.> ( like anyone would do that without throwing 1 or 2 punches). I'm not wrong to suggest that Haruto doesn't blame Yuzuki for what happen and that he actual sympathizes with her action.

the readers are the one with the problem in accepting but Haruto does not, what the readers feel is irrelevant. Waven and Johnny both made good points. Darknemo2000, hmmm even if I reply and reluctantly agree to your post and call this NTR what would it accomplish? it is not a reason nor does it have purpose beside acknowledging what happen in the past.

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Good reason and good intention or not still make those a rage manga's. Here we have only a simulation Netorare but it still created plenty of rage like a real netorare does and even used your typical netorare plot for giving a 'good' reason.

And as you know - road to hell is built on good intentions. History teaches us that a lot of human sufferings actually started from good intentions.

If you want to use this as a hyperbole for NTR sure that's fine, and agree but would he (Haruto) want to get back with Eba given how he reacted(treated) the entire Tokyo Arc. I personally see nothing that will stop him besides Asuka and even that is a flimsy life jacket dangling by an old rope. There is nothing to suggest that he wouldn't want to and besides he was fighting over for her and in worst case killing said person not literally but taking away his only desire in life. So finally you ask does he love Yuzuki... if the answer is yes (painfully obvious from the manga now) that is the only real reason you need. It is illogical but that's is how it works. the rest of it hasn't impacted on his decision except for kazama dying leading to his current shallow life style with Asuka.

[Master Chibi]

Originally Posted by Mykas

this isn't about being spiteful, or holding a grudge this is about common sense. I am not suggesting he hate her but relationships involve trust and I am suggesting he can't trust her.

Trust her?

Haruto's the douchebag now, she's an angel at this point. The entire handicap arc is a moot point now, like hell Seo's going to adhere to it in any way.

Here's what I want to happen:

- Asuka breaks up with Haruto because she finds out he's a selfish shallow jackass. Haruto kinda feels bad. Kinda.

- Eba doesn't find out exactly why they break up, but comforts Haruto none the less.

- Haruto and Eba get back together.

- The relationship is peachy until Eba finds out why Haruto broke up with Asuka, prompting Eba to break up with him. Again.

- The devil sets foot on terra firma and starts claiming the souls of mortal men. Just as he's about to pluck the very life force from Haruto he hesitates before stopping all together. He releases all the souls and gets ready to return to hell, but not before telling Haruto one thing:

"You're a dick."

- THE END

[Johnny]

Freaking hilarious post as usual...

[Chandalen]

/snip
"You're a dick."
THE END
/snip
Chuckle, nicely done. I would applaud SEO if he actually wrote that story.

I've never been an Eba fan (I was probably one of the few that was glad she was gone the first time: as in before the Tokyo arc), but yeah at this point she's an angel compared to this Dbag. I kept waiting for someone to spit out "YOU GONNA GET BEFRIENDED" but alas it didn't happen.


Also add me to the "not NTR" camp. The only rage I had at that point was towards Haruto for being... well... himself.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by Johnny

That's the statement right there. Not while she and Haruto were together, which would could be categorized as NTR I suppose. Who gives a rat's ass what happened after they've broke up. Just because Haruto couldn't get over it and move on doesn't mean he was NTR'ed. Plus he didn't have a problem with it much anyways. Would you be all chummy chummy with the guy you claim pulled a NTR on your ass? I don't think so. Well someone who was right in their mind...

Too much time wasted on a subject that I find pointless arguing over. You think it was I think it wasn't. Good for both of us as were allowed to have our own opinions. Dark's probably the most stubborn person I've seen in awhile, so talking won't accomplish anything anyways...

Well ask yourself if a cheated guy is happy with his cheated situation while his wife has sex with other guys, would that be a cheating? Yes it would, although much less intense.

Same with netorare just that the main guy is not feeling the rage due to being whimp or any other reason, it doesnt mean it isnot a netorare (as it ignites plenty of rage in readers).

Netorare can be cosnidered without the relationship. One of the major mistakes newbies make is that they think cuckold=netorare. But its not the same.

Netorare can be just seeing your love interest going happy with her guy or even sister/mother having fun (though in such cases it has to be brothers/son pov and he has to feel anger/jealousy or at very least sadness from it all).

Just because Eba broke before it, doesnt mean it is not Netorare. It is not cuckold - that much is true, but it is still Netorare.

Well at least has the netorare setting. The main difference is that the conclusion didnt went NTR alll the way due to physical contact lacking.

Do I consider KNIM an NTR manga? Only partially. Because no actual physical contact between Eva and Kazuma is shown I really have trouble identifying it as a real netorare. But maybe thats because the 97% netorare I have seen are in h manga's doujins or eroges and of course include the sex.

But at the same time you really cant arggue that Seo did use the overused netorare plot setting right here and there. So it does have some NTR in it.

[Johnny]

This is cut n' dry NTR to me. I don't see how there could be any gray areas...

While they were together....
Did Haruto walk in on Kazuma screwing Eba's brains out? No!
Did Haruto see a video of Kazuma screwing Eba's brains out? No!
Did Haruto read a manga that portrayed Kazuma screwing Eba's brains out? No!
Did Haruto read an article in Penthouse forum describing Kazuma screwing Eba's brains out? No!

Now.......
Did Eba break up with Haruto before starting a relationship with Kazuma? Yes! As far as we know of.
Did Kazuma steal Eba away from Haruto? No!
Did Eba break up with Haruto of her own volition? Yes! For whatever the exact cause is still up in the air.
Was Haruto upset about being dumped? Duh, who wouldn't be upset about being dumped?

Sorry, like I said before. Your own version of NTR can be used in 99% of romance manga today. Hell, Seo himself could come on here and say that there isn't any NTR in his manga and you would still disagree. This is the last time I argue about it, I swear dammit...!

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by Johnny

This is cut n' dry NTR to me. I don't see how there could be any gray areas...

While they were together....
Did Haruto walk in on Kazuma screwing Eba's brains out? No!
Did Haruto see a video of Kazuma screwing Eba's brains out? No!
Did Haruto read a manga that portrayed Kazuma screwing Eba's brains out? No!
Did Haruto read an article in Penthouse forum describing Kazuma screwing Eba's brains out? No!

It really doenst matter what they did or did not in a relationship, for a NTR genre.

Now.......
Did Eba break up with Haruto before starting a relationship with Kazuma? Yes! As far as we know of.

And it is still in netorare limits. You have to realize that NTR is much broader than simple cuckold. Just because you are not in relationship doesnt mean it is not an NTR. Hell I have seen NTR where the main love interest doenst even know about the main heros existence and just happily dates her guy while the hero is depressing himself somewhere else over it.

Did Kazuma steal Eba away from Haruto? No!

So? Netorare consist from type C and not only Type A and B, meaning that 'stealing' is not necessarily to be counted as NTR.

Yes it is ironic considering the original meaning of the word, but as a term Netorare grew bigger than its original meaning and thats why the term is getting so popular right now.

Did Eba break up with Haruto of her own volition? Yes! For whatever the exact cause is still up in the air.

Type A always have the girl either dump the guy or cheat him behind his back on her own volition, so it really isnt an argument as far as NTR goes.

Was Haruto upset about being dumped? Duh, who wouldn't be upset about being dumped?

Haruto never went in rage but again we have seen in some ntr heroes being too weak to complain or really rage after being NTR'ed. It still doesn't mean it is not an NTR however.

Sorry, like I said before. Your own version of NTR can be used in 99% of romance manga today. Hell, Seo himself could come on here and say that there isn't any NTR in his manga and you would still disagree. This is the last time I argue about it, I swear dammit...!

As I said you are newbie, so to understand NTR, you should play a bit of NTR games read doujins and h mangas to get a better grasp on it first. Right now your NTR knowledge is lacking thats why it seems like 99% of romance manga would be netorare, but in fact only a very few can be considered netorare. You however need to gain knowledge regarding the genre to be able to identify it properly, rather than starting labelling it around on every manga due to own ignorance.

Yet KNIM is a complex. And probably the only manga which I have problems identifying as NTR or not. Because no physical contact happens, but the setting and the plot of Kazuma arc is pure NTR really.

[Soviet]

Soooo

Naruto is a NTR-Manga huh?

[Darknemo2000]

I dont read Naruto. So I dont know how much NTR it is or not. If I remember correctly from the few chapters I read before dropping Naruto liked Sakura while she herself liked another emo guy. But its not NTR, unless Sakura started dating emo guy and Naruto felt pain over it or it was built in a way to create rage within readers.

One-sided crush from heroine doenst make it an NTR just yet.

[Sakuyakun]

Sorry, NTR is not an excuse for awful writing. And you can pretty much trace Seo's cringe worthy skill from his other mangas as well.

[AcroDave]

Originally Posted by Sakuyakun

Sorry, NTR is not an excuse for awful writing. And you can pretty much trace Seo's cringe worthy skill from his other mangas as well.

Huh, I actually thought Suzuka was pretty good. The 'hero' was likeable, the plot was interesting & involving, and all the characters had strong personalities...

...unlike this story.

[Shadow5YA]

Seo has a habit of forcing coincidences in his writing. Suzuka is no exeption. It's just that his current work has much, much more of them. Yes, I'm looking at you, Asuka, who just happened to have an emergency right before your trip to Okinawa with your boyfriend, AND right before your boyfriend's ex goes on a trip to his hometown.

[Sakuyakun]

If I could get enough will power to re-read suzuka, I might be able to posts all the unrealistic stuff in there. And as always his main character is a herp derp. This is painful, so please let this be the last resort.

I guess everyone here has his preferences and tastes but Seo's works is one of those you you should be aware off. Suzuka, Crossover, princess lucia etc... The horror this mangaka unleashed

I really wish he teams up with a good writer, or like the others suggested make a shorter storyline.

[oDin01]

Suzuka and Kimi no Iru Machi both have it's issues but KNIM brings out the rage in almost all it's readers. A good portion of the readers keep on coming back for more.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by AcroDave

Huh, I actually thought Suzuka was pretty good. The 'hero' was likeable, the plot was interesting & involving, and all the characters had strong personalities...

...unlike this story.

Wait... you actually thought he was likable? *head explodes*

[lightbringer]

Originally Posted by Sakuyakun

I really wish he teams up with a good writer, or like the others suggested make a shorter storyline.

Team up with a better writer maybe, definitely no shorter storylines - I want longer manga :3

About coincidences, I'm not sure it's really possible to have an interesting story without at least some coincidences, although it's not good if they are as apparently artificial and frequent as in a manga like KNIM.

[Nemuru]

Originally Posted by oDin01

Suzuka and Kimi no Iru Machi both have it's issues but KNIM brings out the rage in almost all its readers. A good portion of the readers keep on coming back for more.

It's an emotional train wreak I would like to see finish, something like finding the light at the end of the tunnel. Means I would also have less nightmares to think about when I know how it ends... unless Seo trolls it like 'No bra'.

About coincidences, I'm not sure it's really possible to have an interesting story without at least some coincidences, although it's not good if they are as apparently artificial and frequent as in a manga like KNIM.

Coincidences are fine as long as they give raise to proper development and also must not be too arbitrary. Having 3 of them pop up in one go isn't exactly clever writing. Yes someone did mention this trip being one of them ^^, Divine intervention as it is lol.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Wait... you actually thought he was likable? *head explodes*

Personally I had no issues myself, he was a decent lead as far as they come... sometimes innocently stupid but thoughtful enough. Haruto is just arrogant atm...

[cmgmcmg]

Originally Posted by lightbringer

Team up with a better writer maybe, definitely no shorter storylines - I want longer manga :3

See, I'm the same way but I also believe that one of the reasons why this manga is falling and failing is because he's just postponing the ending and making the characters shittier because thats what keeps drama going. KNIM in my opinion should have never reached chapter 100.

The only way I see a romantic manga lasting very long is if the romantic part wasn't the main focus. Take Bakuman for example, sure he promises to married her once he gets an anime and that is what leads him to draw manga, but the main focus is about two guys becoming best friends and working their way into Jump magazine, the romantic part is constantly there but it is also delayed not because the characters bad decisions.

For romance mangas (typically) the longer they are, the characters start to fall apart more and go out of character as well just because that is what makes drama which prolongs the story. A sad fact of life I believe to be true in all cases except that one manga that just breaks that cycle.