2011-05-30, 06:43 | Link #282 | |||
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Yuri shipping or not, I'll stand rock-firm from now on that with whatever degree of friendship/affection/intimacy (you make the call, based on how you treat such things), Kyouko is a much better pair for Sayaka. Despite being of the same sex and sporting an ultimate brat facade. Oh, the irony. Thanks for the interview link, there were soe pretty interesting things to read, although I'm STILL puzzled about what exactly Kyouko's powers were. Her lifestyle has already been proven in Oriko manga, but it's now official that she's not viewed as a person to deliberately harm people. It raises a big question whether she even intended to kill Sayaka in their first encounter or just bash her out of commission and claim the turf. Quote:
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2011-05-30, 13:44 | Link #283 |
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A lot of the tragedies the girls died for generally aren't worth dying for. There are terminal incurable illnesses like pancreatic cancer, and not everyone has the opportunity to wish it all away. Kyoko having a family in poverty isn't unique. There are also plenty who would wish that they could meet a loved one again. All of the situations the girls were in and wanted to wish for can be found in the real world, but unlike them, others have no choice but to cope to continue living or degrade themselves as they're overcome by grief. If regular people can cope, then there's no reason that the Puella Magi couldn't as well.
Second, there's no reason to expect a level of gratitude equal or higher than the good deed accomplished. Placing such an unrealistic expectation on the return only leads to disappointment and is exactly what Sayaka did. Sayaka chose not to reveal her feelings to Kamijou, but Hitomi did. With no knowledge of what Sayaka has done for Kamijou, why is he expected to pair up with her like we're forcing some arranged marriage? If we really want to place an objective evaluation on each of the characters' values and priorities, then in reality none of what they did is worth it. The girls could have learned to deal with pain, poverty, and death like normal people do. Kyoko could have killed Oktavia and kept herself alive to help Homura fight Walpurgisnacht. Sayaka could have given up on Kamijou and went for another guy. Then, if the next guy doesn't work, she can still try another. However, since we do not share the same emotions they had in the moment, it's a given that we don't understand why they placed such importance on what they did. We are not friends with Madoka. Kyoko's father was not our father. We are not the ones who fell in love with Kamijou. |
2011-05-30, 16:19 | Link #284 |
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And people failing to understand that is pretty much the root of all the Sayaka hate threads at /a/.
Of course, nobody in their right mind would expect Kamijou to feel obliged to Sayaka for something he didn't even know her to have done for him (and probably he's better off not knowing ). Sayaka herself seemed to realize it, just as she might have realized he's not exactly swooning over her. But she couldn't help hoping for something. Maybe subconsciously picturing her future like that of a comic superhero with double identity, managing to save the world at night and share Kyousuke's happiness of music at day, slowly getting closer to him until... (insert the good ol' Mendelson here). Mind you, that's something a lot of traditional magical girls manage to achieve, hence the constant bitter conclusion that our Sayaka found herself in the wrong series. Instead of a superhero, she became someone who did NOT fit into the future she might have imagined (that's how she saw it, at least). Thanks to Kyouko (and in TL6, assumably thanks to the others as well, as she had Mami by her side and likely was on much better terms with Homura) she seemed to have snapped out of it for a short while, but in the end she couldn't get over it. Quitting an unreciprocated love and finding another love interest is better said than done for a teenage girl, let alone one who stopped viewing herself as a normal human being. Just like Mami said, "she couldn't handle the change". And it's the same old story in the end, whether she sits and angsts herself into witchhood or burns her soul away in desperate fighting. And we can only WISH she had gotten over it somehow, not with contempt for Sayaka's character but with compassion. Yet it's the same point of view that makes me think Kamijou wasn't worth her death. Like I said, I don't see her wish as meaningless, but her sheer suffering and fall is too painful, and Kamijou, while not playing a deliberate role in the events, was surely a factor here. And that factor stems from his behaviour which remains hardly approvable even in regards to a close friend rather than a love interest. Of course, he gets his share of wham - you didn't have time to talk to your friend, well now you don't have a chance to talk to her, nd you never will. In regards to Sayaka's fate Kamijou remains both a plot element and simply a guy who, even taking the situation into account, just did not behave too well by simple social standards. That's what will bug people about him for a long time.
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2011-05-30, 22:29 | Link #285 |
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You can say healing his hand would end up in a reward for Sayaka, but the issue here is, Sayaka had no idea he didn't see as more than a friend. Even if she didn't expect him to suddenly love her, due to her making a contract for him - and he shouldn't since he had no idea about that - she probably expected him to take notice of her after having devoted so much time for him, trying to cheer him up in the hospital. Notice that she had given up on the idea of contracting, after Mami died, but went for it after Kamijou went all emo. She wanted a chance to have a normal time with him, and that's why she wished for his hand to be healed.
Now, whilst she knew the life of a MS was dangerous, she had no idea how the system worked. She had no idea her soul was getting ripped from her body and put in the Soul Gem. Nor did she knew, the purpose of MGs was to become witches, after going through constant despair. Had she known about these things, then she'd probably have thought things even further. As for his career as a violinist being worthy of Sayaka's life, that's up to her to decide. The problem was she never had all the info needed to make a proper choice.
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2011-05-31, 00:24 | Link #286 | |
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With this being said, I find it quite peculiar to choose a school friend over a childhood friend, whom also happens to faithfully visit your spoiled jerkass self. Is he really that easy? Or does he like polite girls over the energetic ones? I just don't see how he couldn't have grown at least a bit of feelings for Sayaka. She is a good person, that's known him for a while, and does so much for him. Even before her contract, she had always been selfless when it came to Kyosuke. |
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2011-05-31, 02:40 | Link #287 | |||
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can't really blame saya for falling to that guy. that's love. even the most despicable bastards have admirers. but if we're looking for a happy and fulfilling saya end, kyouko would be the better choice. others might want to consider a happy end with kamijou, but i don't think he's that good. since he's a rising star and everything happens so fast (his excuse), girls flock to him and thus his infidelity. saya would suffer in the end. saya doesn't deserve that. Quote:
maybe westermarck effect should be blamed. but what would be really odd is if kamijou immediately accepted hitomi on the spot, which i think he did. |
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2011-05-31, 06:25 | Link #288 | |||||||||
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2011-05-31, 12:59 | Link #289 | |
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But yeah, it would definitely be nice to get some new scenes in the Blu-Ray version expanding on Kyosuke's feelings towards both Sayaka's death and Sayaka herself. |
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2011-05-31, 15:40 | Link #290 |
Twilight lander
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Gosh, in terms of fandom attitude he'd rival Kyuubey... Although a date excuse won't work - while Hitomi did cross Sayaka's path, she didn't feel too well about it, and now that it has ended in such a way, it might take a while before she can go on a date. That is, unless Shaft trolls us about them both.
A more plausible reason would be, "I'm sorry for Sayaka, but I'm in the middle of my violin practice, I'm sure she'd prefer me to dedicate myself to music"... Now, after a line like this, who in the fandom wouldn't wish they could follow the advice Kyouko gave in ep 6?
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2011-05-31, 18:53 | Link #291 |
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Considering they're childhood friends and, from what we know, met when they were quite young, it's possible that for some reason or another, all of the time around her simply made Sayaka less of a romantic prospect than Hitomi. and who knows, maybe Kamijou already knew Hitomi before his accident.
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2011-06-01, 03:13 | Link #293 | ||
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2011-06-01, 05:21 | Link #294 | |
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I have many friends among girls, but that doesn't mean I'm viewing them as males, really. If Sayaka was a close friend to Kamijou, it would make sense for him to notice the changes in her behaviour towards him.
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2011-06-01, 08:23 | Link #295 | |
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Well, dude, by now you should have noticed teenage males in anime are dense as black holes.
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2011-06-01, 14:39 | Link #296 |
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Well, these are usually harem protagonists, and Kyousuke hardly looked like one when introduced. Besides, playing the violin does require some brains, I'd say. A person trained in elaborate techniques of an art that supposes emotional input ought to be more perceptive to emotions.
And the "see them as males" part was a pure figure of speech on my part. Of course, Kyousuke would never see Sayaka as boy (though if he did, your notion concerning anime teenage males would fit him 200% ).
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2011-06-01, 14:57 | Link #297 | |
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and this is considering kamijou's supposedly in the 'good side' good point my friend! the insensitivity of kamijou greatly contradicts his gift for music. he's more like a mechanical player. no passion for art at all. music should have rouse him to euphoric state of overwhelming emotions. and music itself should have cured (or at least calmed/lessen his burden) him from his agony/depression. and what exactly he did? |
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2011-06-02, 06:04 | Link #298 | |||
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But seriously, there is a common practice of DVD bonus episodes. Why not make one here - and I'm not talking weird fanservice-driven insertions, but something that would add more to the story. One of the latest magazines mentioned that the original script, if left in production, would have made episode 10 twice as long. It's possible that the main points we now hear in CD dramas were initially planned by Gen as the expansion of timelines Homura experienced, but didn't fit into the schedule frame (and I guess Shaft didn't want another headache with having to stream the episodes falling out of the broadcast limit). It's even possible that the evetns of Oriko Magica had to be likewise removed and converted to a different medium (and if you can't show it in one timeline, there's no point in showing it in others - for all we know, it might be not the case of the issue originating in just one timeline, but other timelines rescripted from the start to remove what would have become a mere plot hole). So come on, Shaft, how about it? Even without a sequel, we could do with some midquel OVAs, dwelling on Kamijou, on the past of Mami and Kyouko, on the stories of other magical girls, even (Joan of Ark, anyone?). Before you consider a slice-of-life AU, there's still plenty to be done to the main plotline, and you can bet it's gonna sell. Not that I don't want a slice-of-life AU as well, though. The prospect of Sayaka staying alive and shining is tempting in itself, and if we're finally shown her hitting it off making friends with Kyouko... I'm in! Quote:
One might think Kamijou is the sort who gets overly obsessive with music and lets this obsession overwhelm human relationships. But it doesn't show in his interaction with his classmates ot Hitomi. So far, I'm really struggling to understand this guy. Quote:
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2011-06-02, 15:19 | Link #299 | ||
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uhm, if i remember correctly, it was just to give up playing violin not necessarily music. and maybe that's why saya is always bringing cds because it's what he likes and in the belief that music has calming effect on
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Spoiler for if only was this animated:
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