2013-02-20, 11:10 | Link #1 |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Dual Wielding Sword Fighting Style
Just curious, how "useful" is dual wielding sword fighting in real life? I know there are plenty of LN/manga/anime/western novel that promote a hero(ine) with two swords (rather than 1 sword, Sword and shield)
But two sword struck me as something incredibly difficult and easily can lead to self-inflicted injuries. The only serious two sword fighting style were the Florentine style in Italy, and even then it is for ritualized dueling and not an general melee. Any sword masters/trainees here can provide some insight? In the same vein, what do people think of concealed sword bracers like the ones used in Assassin's creed? Are they practical? |
2013-02-20, 11:28 | Link #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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There's also the nito form in kendo. Again, it's really ritualized dueling, but it's effective enough that there are practitioner in real life.
For other real life examples, the main gauche used to be popular during the Renaissance. It's shorter than the main hand weapon, so I don't know if that's what you're looking for.
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2013-02-20, 11:50 | Link #3 |
Senior Member
Author
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines
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Filipino martial arts (aka Kali, Arnis or Eskrima) do that as well. Though they're usually done with knives and sticks, the maneuvers used in FMA can also be used with short swords and machetes.
Rumor has it that the samurai Miyamoto Musashi adapted the katana/wakizashi combo after an encounter with a Kali warrior. From what I have read over the Internet: The usual difference between Florentine dual-wielding (sword and dagger) and Filipino-style dual wielding (any weapon will do, but preferably two of the same length) is that the former uses one hand for attack and the other for defense, while the latter uses both hands for both attack and defense at the same time. While most traditional martial arts teach unarmed combat first before armed, FMA does the reverse. It is because of the belief that "the weapon is merely an extension of the body". As they say, "You are (i.e. your body) the weapon, not the stick!" It comes with the added purpose of teaching you unarmed combat should you be disarmed or unable to find anything to use as a weapon. As with any dual-wielding styles, it is vulnerable to spears due to its long reach and more centered thrusts. As for practicality, I don't know about the Florentine style, but the reason why FMA is regarded as one of the most practical martial arts for self-defense is that with it you can use pretty much anything as a weapon. Sure, you don't see anyone wielding rapiers, katanas, main gauches, etc. anywhere in public, but how about anything you have in hand? PVC pipes, wooden sticks, machetes, baseball bats, frying pans, freaking ball point pens, you name it. That said, it would be pretty badass to see somebody dual wielding baseball bats. There were also a fair amount of arguments between FMA and Kendo, and more recently, the Israeli martial art Krav Maga. This video is a duel between an eskrimador and a kendoka. |
2013-02-20, 11:54 | Link #4 |
The Lost Lamb
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: in Darkness
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i don't know much sword fighting, but i think the reason the main character has dual wielding style is because it looks cool, and can makes it more offensive rather than defense
About the concealed blade bracers like in Assasin's creed, it might be possible, because in Assassin's creed Lineage(live action), they showed Giovannani Auditore(the assassin) wielding and working the hidden blade, the exact same may not be possible, but something similar might be
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2013-02-20, 11:59 | Link #5 |
Senior Member
Author
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines
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Agreed. Two weapons are better than one. What's even cooler about it is that a sufficiently skilled dual-wielding fighter can use his weapons to attack and defend with both hands as opposed to using the weapon on the non-dominant hand as a shield.
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2013-02-20, 18:26 | Link #7 |
Nyaaan~~
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
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So having taken a western swordplay class recently where someone actually asked this question:
2 is (almost) always better than one. With a sidesword (non-thrusting sword) you would use it as an extra threatening weapon as well as a defensive tool. With a rapier or thrusting weapon, it is often used to create extra offense to enlarge the attack range, as if you had a really wide thrusting sword. Due to the strengths and weaknesses of right-hand vs. left-hand in close combat, apparently people are trained to try to "lose" their dominant hand.. although it isn't always effective.
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2013-02-20, 21:14 | Link #12 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Quote:
Dual wielding a weapon requires much higher skill you realize. It's not meant to be something you give to hordes of conscript meat shields
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2013-02-20, 21:46 | Link #13 |
18782+18782=37564
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
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Btw, I'm curious about something. Sometimes in fiction when a character is depicted to be a master of dual wielding, he/she suddenly became significantly weaker when using only one blade. Does this really makes sense? I mean, with the amount of skill needed to master dual wielding, shouldn't he/she have already mastered the normal single wield as well?
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2013-02-21, 06:25 | Link #14 |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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Personally, I suspect that it's ultimately impractical. Even the sword itself was not that common a weapon in history.
The most widespread weapon, from what I can see, was actually the Spear, and occasionally it's longer variant the Pike. While in a one on one battle the spear is less effective then the sword, when you look instead at mass formations, the spear is much more effective. Add a shield to it, and you've got something special... Not only that, but swords are much harder to manufacture to. Making a sword requires advanced metalworking technology, and historically, most Long-swords were simply too brittle to be in any way useful. I would say a Sword/shield, a spear/shield, or a mace/shield combination is the most practical. |
2013-02-21, 06:53 | Link #15 | ||
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Quote:
Dual-wielding is a difficult to master fighting technique, because you have to be spatially aware and able to use the concept of offense-defense on each hand, switching the attacking blade and defending blade at will when the situation changes. Using the concept of Wing Chun Gates system, a simple attack theory can be applied. Using stabs on the inner gate and chops on the outer gate, applying the same concept of attack and defence, there is a very basic swordfighting movement. Quote:
You have got two now. What do you do with them?
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2013-02-21, 07:03 | Link #16 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Quote:
At personal scale, advantages of two blades is quite obvious. Anyway, Ni Ten Ichi Ryu vid
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Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2013-02-21 at 07:50. |
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2013-02-21, 09:53 | Link #17 | |
Nyaaan~~
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
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Quote:
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2013-02-21, 11:24 | Link #18 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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Quote:
With a massed pike formation, you have the advantage of it outranging every other other weapon. However, it's completely open to missile fire (be it arrows or Javelins). Also, the weapon is useless outside a formation, so you need extremely well-trained and disciplined soldiers who'll always stay in formation. The Spear+Shield is more versatile. Firstly, Spears are still useful outside formation, and the Shield means that if the fight turns into a melee, and the formation breaks up, then the soldiers can more easily defend themselves. Likewise, that shield defends well against missile fire, they can easily form a shield wall if necessary. However, in a straight up battle between Spear/Shield formation (say a Hoplite Phalanx) and a Pike formation, the Pike formation will probably win. The Pike is a more sophisticated weapon though, requires more discipline, and a greater emphasis on combined arms (A pike formation on it's own will be easily slaughtered). You can use fairly untrained soldiers within the Pike wall, but they need to be supported by highly trained light troops at the flanks. |
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2013-02-21, 11:31 | Link #19 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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I always use one weapon. My style is basically crushing the opponent's defenses, so someone using two swords would be easier for me to deal with since I either knock one out of their hands or batter their relatively (when compared to myself) weaker grip.
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