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View Poll Results: Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 25 [End] Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 69 | 57.50% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 37 | 30.83% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 7 | 5.83% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 2 | 1.67% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 3 | 2.50% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 2 | 1.67% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll |
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2013-03-24, 21:36 | Link #141 | |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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The grey morality of the world is what made the show great, so yes, neither side is 'right.' I can't help but sympathize with the rats, however, simply because of their lower position. I would agree with those who feel that modern, normal humanity is closer to the rats than the psionic wielders. I actually thought that was one of the themes of the story, with the outside appearances of each group being quite deceiving. Then again, I do see Saki and Satoru as human since we've gotten to know them so well, so I guess it's up for debate.
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My main question would be, what other choice do the rats have beyond annihilating humanity? Not that it's the morally 'right' thing to do, but a single human poses a massive threat to their aim of dominance. It seems more or less impossible to leave any alive, unless they are raised in rat culture like Maria's child was. I wonder what was up with the 'invasive' species we saw early on in the show. Are there rats all throughout the world? Seems quite the endeavor to mutate all the population like that. Not that these details are integral to the story, but I was curious about what's going on outside of Japan as well. |
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2013-03-24, 21:54 | Link #142 | |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Also remember that the fiend and Squealer weren't the end of the problem. Squealer's thinking and actions have now tainted many colonies, and the views the humans had about them. Plus there are the children he kidnapped, who must be found. It's not likely that the humans will get them back by simply asking for them. So there is dirty work involved in dealing with the colonies no matter what Saki and Satoru have learned. If there's anything messier than war itself, it's the cleanup afterwards. The hope is mostly in that the old guard are for the most part, gone. What is left are societies more malleable than ever, ripe for change. Unfortunately we won't see this explored any, and the future is left up to our imaginations. The true hero in the story, to me at least, was Kiromaru. Unlike Squealer he had no lusts for power, only concern for the survival of his people. He held his principles deeply and clearly for all to see, and in my opinion was the closest to an equal to the humans than any queerat was in the story. His sacrifice ensured the survival of everything he swore to protect, and he did it knowing that he himself would pay the ultimate price. He was not perfect, but I think he was the best representation of the "noble human" we strive to be.
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2013-03-24, 22:14 | Link #143 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
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I'm sorry but I enjoyed Yakomaru's suffering and death (I think I was laughing yeah a bit sadistic sorry but I hated him)
Serves you right Yakomaru ,bastard I really liked Maria and the other boy () But I do feel sorry for the rats(humans), I hope saki and satoru can change the world. I bet their son will be a boy, a new Shun I'm very happy that saki and satoru got married,they seemed happy together. Shun was my favourite character.. he should have been saki's husband. But well satoru is fine too Hey shun didn't talk to saki anymore.. |
2013-03-24, 23:54 | Link #144 | |
zutto soba ni ite ne
Join Date: Feb 2013
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2013-03-25, 01:29 | Link #145 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United States of America
Age: 32
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Just chiming in to say that although I have many gripes with the show as a whole, the last episode was as perfect as it could be, for an anime-only viewer. It really blew past all my expectations, which had admittedly been lowered a lot through the past few episodes.
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For me, there wasn't exactly a true hero in the show. But I loved Satoru's growth, even if the show tried its best to shaft him. And even though the last few episodes tried their best to show otherwise, Saki was a strong female lead. And other than Kiroumaru and Yakomaru, Squonk (was it?) also deserves a mention among the rat-humans. His was probably a better example of selfless service than was Kiroumaru's.
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Last edited by Forsaken_Infinity; 2013-03-25 at 01:44. |
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2013-03-25, 05:46 | Link #146 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Great episode. Great finale. I was skeptical, looking at the direction the show had taken lately, I mean, Saki obsession about the fiend made me fear they would have spend most part of the final episode to "save" the girlfiend.
Instead they really did a great job. I mean, they dedicated basically zero time to the end of the Tokyo "arc" but with such a great symbolic impact, with a rat looking at his dead human comrade (or just to his dead weapon?) mirrored by a human looking to his queerat comrade. It's a thin line between interpretations. Anyways, then they gave time to Squealer to speak himself, to explain himself and eventually to be vocal for the show, saying that they do are the humans Something I tried to explain before, but I understand that it's still difficult to see. And ultimately not that important. I once thought that the best ending would have been with Squealer winning over the so called humans, because, well, because a matter of smartness. If one race has become dumb thanks to his power, it's fair that an hungry and smarter race would succeed in its plan, if its plan deserved it, not just because. And it deserved it. In the end humans survived just thanks to a queerat. And nothing else. So basically they alone would have been doomed if a queerat didn't sided with them (we can't say that he betrayed his own kind, can we?). Again, it's a thin line between interpretations. Instead the narrative went to the opposite direction. But in a way that gave Squealer and queerat the right light to be finally balanced with the humans. In term of humanity. So in the end nobody won in the eyes of the viewers, so I think, in term of good/evil shades. For that reason this ending really surprised me among other aspects. Because it was able to establish a sort of equality that so far has been just hinted, but never truly showed and never acknowledged. And on this equality it's up to anyone siding with one or the other side, knowing that both are flawed, at best. On my part I slightly sided with the rats as I said for a matter of smartness and this episode surely greatly reinforced that view of mine. There are many other things I'd like to say but since I have not much time I'll go straight to the point. And the point is that in the end the true Squealer got revealed and so here my Squealer's apology: 1) Squealer the Coward never existed. I mean, it was always a matter of strategy, a matter of logic. A chess game. Where you have to defend your King. And attack with your Queen. But when his Queen died, he didn't try to escape, he didn't try to kill himself, he didn't beg for mercy. He faced his fate. Whatever it took. And now we do know what it took. And even Squealer knew it, more or less. And that requires not just balls, but big balls. It's easy to be killed/killing himself considering that living would be far more atrocious. 2) When he lost he even discarded his mask. In fact he didn't speak with deference anymore, he didn't looked afraid anymore, not in the way he played to be. He didn't need to lie anymore too. His plan failed. For that reason that was the true Squealer. For better or for worse. And to me he looked far more dignified in that cell, spoiled of his clothes, like a naked mole rat, than before. 3) I think that the fact he surrendered to the humans had his meaning in term of awareness. He didn't escaped because he knew from the start that what he was doing was wrong. Utterly wrong. He knew it all along. But he did for his kind. His whole kind. So he said. And surrendering he demonstrated that he knew it, being in that way honorable. He lost and faced the consequences because he knew that it was wrong killing all that people. Even if they were of a different kind of him. And we can't say the same for the humans. Saki's request to Squealer to apologize demonstrated it. And for that reason Squealer reply to her felt that strong. Because addressed exactly this difference I'm speaking about. Having said that, he is still a fa***ng ba***rd who did horrible things and so deserved his punishment if it lasted just some weeks. In the end basically I guess that what made me siding with the rats was this feeling that humans lacked awareness that killing rats was wrong. And they still lack. And the fact that now they somehow know that rats were humans doesn't matter. It should not matter in the first place. If a being resembles you a bit, speaks like you, walks like you, is smart like you and suffers like you, is it really so relevant if he belongs to your kind or not? I mean, you can kill each other any time, because it is a human nature, but you should know that what you are doing is wrong. It is also human nature. And the show implied that Rats, with Squealer, did know, and humans did not. Well, I guess that I can end here my Squealer Apology. But I was really surprised to see so much counterbalance in just one episode. But the show was loyal to itself afterall. I mean, you can hate him or not, but Squealer made the show
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2013-03-25, 06:49 | Link #147 | |
zutto soba ni ite ne
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Even the democracy is waring against the dictatorship or communism, it can be failed if there is no Messiah. Think of all the possible ways to protect Messiah who is leading the revolution. 2) Will Saki master the technique to stay young? Saki won't be because Tomiko-san didn't teach her anything about how to manipulate the telomeres. 3) The biggest and disgusting twist was the queerat decedents of the former mutated non-powered humans? PK users are retards. They started killing humans in the past and in order for their race to survive they alter the human DNA and made themselves Gods. Changing one's DNA from human to mole-rat is already immoral, slavery is nothing better. On the top of that they create commie village and kill their own kids every now and then in order for their community to survive.
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2013-03-25, 07:01 | Link #148 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯
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I thought Tomiko's ability to manipulate telomeres was something special that only she could do. Kind of like a birth-right or so (similar to Shiseis four pupils and his other wacky abilities). Anyways if it was just merely training, then maybe she could've passed it down to Satoru who would then in turn give it to Saki? (yea a little bit of wishful thinking and perhaps a stretch, i know lol )
I find it rather disappointing that after centuries upon centuries of this 'gotta prevent fiends from ever occurring' prioritised type society, that their best contingency plan for when it does happen is to run wherever the hell away from it as far as you can and hope it starves itself to death or something lol. This along with the above posts raised by Tougarashi do make me feel that PK users were pretty damn narrow-minded. But I guess it's only Human Nature to make mistakes and constantly stumble ass backwards onto the ground over and over again until you miraculously get it right that one time that counts lol
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2013-03-25, 07:36 | Link #149 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Yep, Shun never appeared her mind anymore after the akki incident. I think him appearling like that was due to the huge stress and mental/emotion exhaustion in the first place. But now that she remembered him she could finally lay him to rest.
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Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-03-25 at 08:17. |
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2013-03-25, 09:01 | Link #150 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Well, as I said, just the fact that he didn't try to avoid to be judged, in any ways, despite what supposedly would wait him, proves it. If you didn't feel guilty about something surely you didn't stay there to be caught (so it's what the anime implied). I think that his choice to be judged by humans implies some morality within his cruelty.
What he said later was that what he did was for strategic reasons. He basically said that there weren't any other ways to accomplish his goal. And to me it sounded like he implied he gave away morality for the logic of his own strategy. The fact that he said that implied that he knew what he was giving away. But what made it clear was Saki's request. She asked him to deeply apologize. And he didn't refuse to do it, he just asked for equality instead. He'll do it if she also does. His answer hit the nail on the head twice. Firstly because he reaffirmed his desire of equality between races, giving more credit to his true intentions, secondly because he showed us how Saki and Satoru still didn't get the point. Squealer was ready to apologize. And he was because he knew that what he did was wrong, Saki's didn't, because she didn't understand it, yet. On that surely SSY and PP are quite similar on how they ended. Yes, some more potential on Saki's, but it's a slight difference.
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2013-03-25, 09:38 | Link #151 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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If the Pk users think of the Monster Rats as human then it is the Monster Rats who are in control of the PK users. That is to not say it is unfair and cruel, it certainly is. It also is a pretty bleak look at humanity that only if we have these type of controls in place and someone is on top we can survive. This is the same reason why the Monster Rats attacked the humans, in the end it was for their own survival. I expected for a long time that the Monster Rats were really human, but the "why" they were created hit me the hardest in the same way the explanation of why the children are killed had also hit me. It is understandable why Squealer thinks of himself as the same as the PK users. We can identify & understand that. I can also understand why Squealer might not be able to accept his place in life like Kiroumaru could, but maybe Kiroumaru was more wise and foreseeing in the end. After all he was at least able to secure the safety and survival of his tribe. That all being said I think Saki and Satoru's hope in the end reflects that maybe they can still find ways to change for the better and still survive and at the very least maybe they have more understanding of where the Monster Rats are coming from.
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Last edited by Kirarakim; 2013-03-25 at 09:58. |
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2013-03-25, 11:27 | Link #154 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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What is sad of this specific act is that I can't really say we wouldn't be able to do it. Even for less relevant reasons. Quote:
But if you look closely Squealer didn't win just because of Kiromaru. I mean, he almost won if Kiromaru didn't butt in. In the end even if you don't like squealer he would have freed the queerats from the slavery. So I wouldn't call Kiromaru more wise and foreseeing. Or at least I would if I considered him as my slave. Anyways, in the end he chose to save his tribe remaining a slave over freeing his entire population/race. Whatever you would choose certainly you won't be wrong. But in my opinion what you choose surely defines you as a person. Quote:
Even if I had to be honest Saki never hit me with her proactive-ness. IIRC Saki always made her decisions driven by the feeling for his friends. She started lying to protect his friends, broke the rules for them and ended avoiding to kill the fiend risking to be annihilated, her with her entire population, to save a friend. She was never moved by anything else. But on that I would be glad to be proven wrong.
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2013-03-25, 11:29 | Link #155 | ||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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We can at least be assured that Saki would never agree to the destruction of a queerat colony.
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2013-03-25, 11:45 | Link #156 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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As the future well I think if Saki and Satoru don't figure something out what happened this time with the Monster Rats could certainly happen again. Just stopping Squealer is not stopping the problem. Which is why it is important that they don't continue treating them in the same way (even if they can't see them as the same as them).
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2013-03-25, 12:22 | Link #157 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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But vying for temporary security is neither wise nor foreseeing. Only long term plans that can leave them free from the threat of extermination can do that.
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Last edited by 4Tran; 2013-03-25 at 12:47. |
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2013-03-25, 12:54 | Link #158 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I am not saying Saki didn't make mistakes, she certainly did but mistakes don't make you less of a strong character. Quote:
I understand Kiroumaru's plan might seem "short term" but if he saves the queen in the short term than the species can find ways to survive in the long term. Kiroumaru said himself he would have attacked the humans if the opportunity for it came (hence why he was looking for the WMD's) but it was not to better their position it was for their survival. Anyways Squealer might have been pretty low down the chain in the beginning but he gained power and influence pretty much equal to Kiromaru. I understand why he attacked the humans and he had a good chance of winning but in the end he did not.
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Last edited by Kirarakim; 2013-03-25 at 13:15. |
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2013-03-25, 13:31 | Link #159 | |
Lost at Sea
Join Date: Mar 2010
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I don't think the ideological differences between Squealer, Kiromaru, and the PK villagers particularly matter. No matter which figure "won," there was only going to be the same sort of tribal politics the show itself illustrates the day after the glorious victory.
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2013-03-25, 18:57 | Link #160 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Where I disagree with you is considering PK villagers like just another tribe. Because they are not. The difference in power is far greater than some queerat tribes. In fact, for now, the status quo has been re-established. And if I recollect right, even before, tribes fought each other. So it's not like having some Gods looking over them preserved them from inter tribes wars. Instead, considering a Squealer winning scenario in which he would have had the girlfiend as a weapon, it would have been a far more balanced situation. Because she worked only against humans as a lethal weapon, and not queerats. Anyways, from a queerat perspective, as a race, I would have found more queerat-ish to betray PK-ers instead of queerats. Because in the latter case you, a queerat, are putting your hopes to a single person with a wider mind, among the majority holding a grunge against your race. And more, a person of another race who still doesn't consider you as a "person". In the former case you are betting on a majority who has not any particular view on the matter against a person who you don't know if is good or not, but in the worst case that sooner or later will die. For that reason I said that this kind of choice would define the person you are. Because choosing your tribe over your race is understandable, but choosing your race over your tribe is what would distinguish you from the crowd.
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