(L+CR) Boku Dake ga Inai Machi - ERASED [Manga comparisons forbidden]

[Kenu]

Originally Posted by GDiddy

I still believe this and Showa are the best series this winter, but this episode left a bad taste in my mouth.

Spoiler:

We all knew it was Yashiro, but I half expected for him to scream, 'YOU ALL THOUGHT IT WAS SOMEONE ELSE THAT KILLED THOSE POOR KIDS BUT IT WAS I! THE ADORABLE AWESOME SENSEI WHO EVERYONE LOVES! BWAHAHAHAHA!'

Haha, yeah that would have been great.

I felt Satoru could have done more to identify the killer especially considering the key reason why he revived the last time was to prevent his mother's murder. He saw the murderer twice as an adult in passing.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I have not insulted anyone in this thread for liking the show or disagreeing with me. expressing disagreement is not a crime, I'm not belittling anyone. A lot of people in this thread haven't really been refuting me because they misunderstand what I been saying to begin with. When I say this show hasn't been a very good mystery and then they give me the reasons why the series shouldn't be interpreted as a mystery in hindsight it's like arguing my case for me. Now you could raise the question of whether my expectations are misplaced (if it is done respectfully unlike a poster above me) and that's fair. I'd argue my expectations are setup by the show itself and not by me so you could say it betrays itself. Others can disagree and that is fine, but don't expect me to bow down to your views of the show. It's a discussion afterall and I've found many of the points raised interesting and insightful. For one I have to consider more deeply in fiction the differences between suspense and mystery having realized the distinction can be a bit vague at times. Again, it's just a show and nothing to get personal over.

I don't recall there being THAT much suggesting that it's a mystery. When Satoru went back in time he didn't think "I have to find out who kills my mother", he thought "I have to find out how to STOP the guy that kills my mother, and from the time of my Revival and the stuff that led up to it I'm guessing that means stopping the murders". Satoru's goal was not once set up to be finding the killer and bringing him to justice; it was always stopping the killings before they happened, primarily by finding the people who are alone and vulnerable and giving them a place to belong so they aren't so vulnerable anymore. Frankly, just taking one look at the situation separates this from a standard mystery, because the timing of his jump and its nature says from the start that catching a killer is probably going to count as a fail; he's sent back to before bad things happen to change it so they don't happen, so it's only natural to assume that his objective is to stop the crimes from happening. This doesn't really fit in well with a classic mystery because as far as we know, in the anime at least, no previous crimes have occurred and thus the ultimate goal will leave the culprit to go free. He can't be arrested if he has no priors, so stopping all known cases from even happening leaves him untouchable.

I always felt from the start that it simply used a few mystery-esque motifs to enhance the intended feeling of the story. The story is unique; it doesn't really fit too well into any particular genre because it was never meant to be a standard member of any of them. It's meant to be what it is, no more and no less. Calling it in any way bad on account of its failure to be "good enough" by the standards of a particular genre is frankly a mistake because really it just isn't doing what's been done before. It's really the story Satoru told Airi: he's upset about all the times he did or didn't do something that causes bad things to happen, so he tries to go back and change them, but even when he does it right he feels like he's made things worse for someone, never able to accept that maybe that's just his perception and he should stop beating himself up. It's about him trying to turn time down a different path and at the same time trying to come to grips with the impacts, positive and negative, his life has on others. The subplots of mystery, romance, etc. are all centered on him doing these two things.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

It's really the story Satoru told Airi: he's upset about all the times he did or didn't do something that causes bad things to happen, so he tries to go back and change them, but even when he does it right he feels like he's made things worse for someone, never able to accept that maybe that's just his perception and he should stop beating himself up. It's about him trying to turn time down a different path and at the same time trying to come to grips with the impacts, positive and negative, his life has on others. The subplots of mystery, romance, etc. are all centered on him doing these two things.

That's one important theme that seems to be running through the show.

But there's another one I'm seeing that many viewers seem to have missed. Either that, or they've dismissed it because they took the analysis of that theme 'only so far'--to them, this latest episode ruins it. The reviewer covering that series on ANN is one of the latter.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

Two things, first of all, you can't equate mystery and thriller like you are doing here. While both share similar characteristics they are distinct genres that can't be mixed together. Second, while in your mind a mystery can go by without multiple suspects, this isn't what most of the definitions about the characteristics of mystery fiction maintain. According to them one of the central aspects of mystery fiction is the availability of a circle of suspects, each of whom is suspicious / could've done it. Now, it would be something different if the series had tried, but failed, in developing alternative suspects to Yashiro, but it did not. That by itself is already a significant sign that the author didn't intend for Boku Dake ga Inai Machi to be a mystery fiction. Then add in other facts like Satoru practically never doing the kind of detective work we are used to seeing from mysteries (and letting a good opportunity like the one presented in the bus go away) shows that the author used the mystery elements more as a narrative tool than as a genre he intended the series to be in.

I disagree about the need for a circle of suspects for a mystery. It is common but not the only style of mystery. Another common form is for the culprit to be known to the reader and the mystery part being how the characters figure it and prove it, Columbo for example. Also there are other types such as trying to find out the "why" of an already known "who" and "how".

I had thought from the first episode that this show was going to be of the known culprit kind with the mystery coming from how Satoru gets proof of crimes not committed yet with the added handicap of being a child. As Kayo's story went on I expected it to tie in with the killer and then the rest of the show would be about doing something about it, but that never happened.

Honestly, so far Satoru just comes across as not being to bright.

[Last Sinner]

Originally Posted by karice67

That's one important theme that seems to be running through the show.

But there's another one I'm seeing that many viewers seem to have missed. Either that, or they've dismissed it because they took the analysis of that theme 'only so far'--to them, this latest episode ruins it. The reviewer covering that series on ANN is one of the latter.

Nick Creamer's review?! Oh god, that was hilarious! He utterly lost the plot after Episode 10 in typical ANN reviewer fashion. Carl Kimlinger, Carlo Santos and Gabriella Ekens would be so proud - bunch of imbeciles. I doubt the actual point of Erased will occur to poor Creamer before the end if all he can do is write something so utterly toxic and intentionally inflammatory.

But you seem to have the right idea, karice.

[karice67]

^

It wasn't just him, though. I remember someone else writing, after episode 6, that Satoru's final words to Airi were terrible because all they would serve to do was to remind her that she'd gotten him caught.

But what Satoru said was this "I can still hang in there because you believed in me." I'm not sure how that viewer got his conclusion that it could only be taken in a negative way...

[Last Sinner]

Originally Posted by karice67

^

It wasn't just him, though. I remember someone else writing, after episode 6, that Satoru's final words to Airi were terrible because all they would serve to do was to remind her that she'd gotten him caught.

But what Satoru said was this "I can still hang in there because you believed in me." I'm not sure how that viewer got his conclusion that it could only be taken in a negative way...

There were a couple of lines that got cut.

Spoiler for What was missed in the ep6 equivalent but was in the manga:

The manga explained thoroughly that both Satoru and Airi knew the risk of Satoru being caught if she met up, but that both felt the need to see each other because of their belief/understanding of each other.

You remove those lines - the vibe is then that Airi's actions got Satoru caught, which isn't true.

But meh, ANN reviewers and other places are known for not giving the source material any mind before doing their rampaging rants.

[karice67]

^
To be frank, I don't think they needed to be any more explicit about it. It's implied in other ways through the whole of episodes 5 and 6, but especially in what Airi was saying to her mother about how the most painful thing is not being believed (when you're telling the truth).

[Kaoru Chujo]

Interesting discussion, everyone. Thanks. I certainly suspected the teacher, but felt as if almost every adult male seemed suspect, too, including the guy who was eventually convicted.

Breaking off the Kayo story seemed very odd to me at the time. But I expect to see her make a reappearance of some kind. I would probably be disappointed if she didn't.

Having untraceable cars stashed around the district seemed a bit of a leap, but possible.

The final scenes where Satoru was coming to terms with and enjoying his disappearing life were pretty strong. I didn't feel panic from him so much as wistful regret coupled with delight in the scenes from his life he saw. His and his mother's eyes meeting was a great notion.

I'm hesitant to assign genres to stories. Genres can be straitjackets that prevent us from enjoying a show for whatever it is.

My favorite show this season is HaruChika, which seems awfully skimpy on the surface, hardly seeming to do anything, but by some kind of magic produces a subtle and fascinating effect.

[orion]

I actually liked the episode. I went "Uh oh!" as the teacher revealed himself; went "Ah!" when I realized that Satoru had made a mistake in who the next victim was. Satoru was the one who was really "alone" when he was acting to prevent everything and made for the "perfect" victim. He was only spared because Satoru was male and the teacher was hunting females. That is.. until Satoru was interfering with his plans. He got a death setup worse than Kayo's. It would be pretty obvious to the in-story police that he was murdered and who did it now (hopefully). Cars don't go into a frozen river on their own so the driver is at fault.

So in essence Satoru was acting like his adult self, not taking into account his personal safety and relying on Revival to kick in when he really gets in trouble. He didn't take into account the serial killer's retaliation response which was what happened when his mother prevented him from acquiring a new victim and took a picture of his license plate.

He really did prevent every death, including his mother's death. He prevented Yuuki from going to prison. So, I think that he met his goals. Catching the criminal wasn't the only way to prevent those deaths. Satoru made the killer's hunting ground so bare he had to move on to areas with lots of children that are home alone to prey on.

And....as a child, it wasn't realistic that the adults would believe him anyways if he had evidence. That was the one thing that was stressed in-story. As a child, the adults didn't believe him when he said Yuuki was innocent.

Revival didn't happen. Equivalent exchange prob kicked in with all those deaths prevented so he had to pay for it with something. It kicked in with the death of the child he prevented. He was just in a coma for a few days.

So, if he gets out of this situation in one piece, I hope he enjoys his life.

The anime did foreshadow that retaliation was a possibility so people shouldn't get so worked up about it.

[Kenu]

Originally Posted by orion

I actually liked the episode. I went "Uh oh!" as the teacher revealed himself; went "Ah!" when I realized that Satoru had made a mistake in who the next victim was. Satoru was the one who was really "alone" when he was acting to prevent everything and made for the "perfect" victim. He was only spared because Satoru was male and the teacher was hunting females. That is.. until Satoru was interfering with his plans. He got a death setup worse than Kayo's. It would be pretty obvious to the in-story police that he was murdered and who did it now (hopefully). Cars don't go into a frozen river on their own so the driver is at fault.

So in essence Satoru was acting like his adult self, not taking into account his personal safety and relying on Revival to kick in when he really gets in trouble. He didn't take into account the serial killer's retaliation response which was what happened when his mother prevented him from acquiring a new victim and took a picture of his license plate.

He really did prevent every death, including his mother's death. He prevented Yuuki from going to prison. So, I think that he met his goals. Catching the criminal wasn't the only way to prevent those deaths. Satoru made the killer's hunting ground so bare he had to move on to areas with lots of children that are home alone to prey on.

And....as a child, it wasn't realistic that the adults would believe him anyways if he had evidence. That was the one thing that was stressed in-story. As a child, the adults didn't believe him when he said Yuuki was innocent.

Revival didn't happen. Equivalent exchange prob kicked in with all those deaths prevented so he had to pay for it with something. It kicked in with the death of the child he prevented. He was just in a coma for a few days.

So, if he gets out of this situation in one piece, I hope he enjoys his life.

The anime did foreshadow that retaliation was a possibility so people shouldn't get so worked up about it.

Equivalent exchange... ouch such a horrible but realistic concept should you believe in the Grim Reaper. His life for 4 people, perhaps a fair exchange one could argue. It shows how Boku Machi is very much breaking down the defined genres that people in this thread hold so dearly to their hearts.

Satoru, the child was always at risk except that he wasn't a girl. For a young boy to run around on snowy nights in remote Hokkaido is a recipe for disaster no matter what country you're in. Yet every time he went out on a limb to save those he knew would die, he made himself vulnerable by mistakenly believing in his own safety was guaranteed.

[Last Sinner]

Well...one only needs to look at the title.

The Town Where Only I Am Missing.

[karice67]

^

I think it's better if you stop hinting at what is to come.

[EroKing]

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[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by karice67

^

I think it's better if you stop hinting at what is to come.

How is noting the title a hint at things to come? He simply said that the name seems to suggest certain results. We're not supposed to talk about what's in the manga past the current point, or what point we're at in the manga since it gives some idea of the coming pacing, but I didn't think there were any rules against saying where you think things might be headed or what past events and existing information might imply...

[karice67]

^

I'm not sure if you can see that Last Sinner edited his post after I wrote that, but he had written something else that has now been removed.

I suppose I could have deleted that post once I'd noticed, but I'm honestly sick of warning people to stop hinting about future developments.

[orion]

Originally Posted by karice67

^

I think it's better if you stop hinting at what is to come.

The series did the hinting. I'm just pointing it out. Besides, we have 2 episodes left. The protag being dead is not an option.

It's just like who the serial killer was. The series shouted out who it was in the 1st 2 episodes.

And the title of the series practically shouted out that he would be the only victim and additionally hints at what I proposed.

[Boukenxha]

You know, there are people who believe that they have recognized Nishizono's voice actor to be the same as Yashiro anndd... I don't think I'm alone. Well, it doesn't really take away my enjoyment for this series despite of that. In my view, the criminal's identity and how he was planted in the scenes never really took over the show's excellent suspense and drama elements which I always thought are it's main sell. I know I also enjoyed the ride back in time to a familiar time of kids and believed heroes, that they like them can do anything... to which after this episode is answered back with oops!!

[karice67]

Originally Posted by orion

The series did the hinting. I'm just pointing it out. Besides, we have 2 episodes left. The protag being dead is not an option.

It's just like who the serial killer was. The series shouted out who it was in the 1st 2 episodes.

And the title of the series practically shouted out that he would be the only victim and additionally hints at what I proposed.

......

You know that I wasn't talking about your post, right?

[Last Sinner]

Originally Posted by karice67

......

You know that I wasn't talking about your post, right?

I had previously spoken to mods about the standards for what could and couldn't be said.

I was tailoring all my posts as such.

If something slipped through, it wasn't intentional.