(L+CR) Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru. Zoku (Oregairu Season 2)

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Mangonel

Yui knows this, and was going to solve Yukino's family problems to win the Service Club prize and tell Yukino something to the effect of 'don't confess to Hachiman'.

That doesn't make sense. Yukino's family issues aren't something that Yui can magically wish away, and preventing Yukino from confessing (assuming she was ever going to) doesn't solve a thing either.

Getting Hachiman to be her prince however, does make sense, especially when you remember the penguin's mating description, where couples stay together for life.

The idea was that it's fine for Yukino to stay dependent as she is, as long as the person she relies on doesn't ever abandon her.


Also keep in mind that Yui friendzoned Hachiman. She brought Yukino along for their date, and passed off her own homemade cookies as "just as thanks".

[Arya]

Ok, posted it in another forum. I post it again here since it's where I usually read and write.

May take right now, because I cant see other explanations, is that Yui played an Hachiman on Hikki and Yukino, but with the difference that she meant it. She did aim for it. If hikki wouldn't have saved Yukino Yui would have accepted that solution despite being not really genuine.

here Yui's speech of the PV for this episode:

Originally Posted by Yui

There's something I want,
but I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed,
and I don't play fair,
so I can only come up with one answer.
But I'm sure that's not the answer expected of me.

Why is it that what I want and what's expected of me are so similar,
yet so different?
In truth a lie would be good enough.

What is Yui wanting from forever? Hikki.
Why she says she doesn't play fair? this bit would make sense if for having him (and so also Yukino) she'd play the way I'm interpreting her actions. To force Yukino and Hikki to commit.
And in her mind, due to what she thinks, that's the only answer for having him. Despite not being the sharpest solution (since actually it isn't, not in the long run).
And clearly that's not the answer we'd expect from her.

As I said, it is not so dissimilar from pulling an Hachiman on Hikki and Yukino, but yet it is, so different. And it is because she means/wants it. More specifically she wasn't sacrificing herself.

And the last bit may mean that in the end a lie, she pulling an hachiman, could work to conceal her true self in case someone had stopped her.
As it happened.

Sort of.

[Tormenk]

Originally Posted by Arya

I'm also pretty skeptical (and took it as an understatement) about letting a dependable and not grow up / underage person go living alone when she is clearly not fitted for.

Yukino's father thought it reasonable enough to provide the apartment for Yukino, even if her mother was against it. Be it betting on his daughter's sensibility or just wanting peace at home, I would say Yukino proved herself well enough by living apart from the family for two years without any trouble. For all her excellence, she is still a teenage girl. How effective this was towards curing her dependency problem is purely up to debate though.

Originally Posted by Arya

May take right now, because I cant see other explanations, is that Yui played an Hachiman on Hikki and Yukino, but with the difference that she meant it. She did aim for it. If hikki wouldn't have saved Yukino Yui would have accepted that solution despite being not really genuine.

Your assessment wouldn't be far off from my take on the whole proposal Yui pulled.
She adapted Hikki's idea of a strong enough excuse for the other person(s) involved to engage in the plan. She took into account Yukino and Hikki's mentality and tweaked her methodology enough not to repeat Hikki's mistakes as well. No matter how it could have gone down regardless of consent or refusal, someone would have to step in or she would get away with imposing her selfish proposal on them.

[Parousia]

Wow, last episode seems a lot similar with Haganai's second season,no conclusion and a heck of a cliffhanger.

So Yui's "nice personality" was actually deceit huh, and it seems that she was willing to throw away her feelings for 8man so that the club would stay together.

So on to questions...
1. Yui was saying she would take "everything" does that mean she's taking 8man or she wants to maintain their trio?
2. Yukino made cookies(I think) for 8man and I see it as a romantic thing for Yukino, so does she have feelings for 8man?

[DragoonKain3]

Ok, now that the debating has died down in Hibike, time to go back to this thread.

@Anarchy
See my reply to Mangonel about Yui 'taking everything' and the cookies that supposed to be strictly as 'token of gratitude'. Hint: I think she lied both times.

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I'm not a Yukino shipper and I don't condone Yukino's decisions in the series, but I wouldn't handwave Haruno's cruelty as "merely for Yukino's sake".

"Most of the evil in this world is done by people with good intentions.” -TS Eliot

That's one of the reasons why I find Haruno the best damn character of the entire cour. She looks to be a firm believer in that the ends justifies the means, which is frigging awesome because as a character, she's definitely not 'good' but not completely 'evil' either.

Since the main POV is Hachiman's, we are only given secondhand information about Yukino's family and early childhood, which I primarily blame for what's happening to Yukino, and I can never justify what Haruno has done and hasn't done (or didn't do) unless there's actually nothing their family can do (i.e., the Yukinoshita family is dysfunctional).

Basically, Yukino wasn't broken from the start, and her family hasn't actively done their part in dealing with her problem. In fact, they might have even made her more brittle in the process.

True, it's quite possible that interpretation is the correct one. But we have to ask ourselves, is Haruno even really as 'bad' as Hachiman's POV makes her out to be? In other people's POV, Hachiman was the 'bad guy' like in the events at the end of S1, so maybe there's a method to her madness. She's Hiratsuka's former pupil after all, so I would like to think the glass is half full and that she didn't stay 'totally evil' under Sensei's tutelage.

As such, I think you have nailed what I think of the Yukinoshita family. I totally think that the Yukinoshita family is TOTALLY dysfunctional, as Yukimom looks to be the 'evil' Yamato Nadeshiko. That is, she acts all prim and proper on the outside, but really is manipulative judging by her conversation after chocolate testing. In contrast, Haruno I think is the one acting all manipulative in the outside, but really is a softy for Yukino. Haruno can't be beside Yukino forever, so it's Haruno's way of saying to her sister "You gotta be tough to survive in this family in case I'm not here".

Whether it's actually justifiable is another matter, as I personally have been taught that the end NEVER justifies the means. Still, I find it fascinating that people can do 'bad' things despite 'good' intentions, and I wouldn't be here if I didn't, as Hachiman was the living personification of it last season.



As an aside, it's interesting that Haruno is staying with Yukino in her house. I bet if Haruno really wanted to be totally cruel, she would have convinced their mom to force Yukino back at the main house. Speculation of course, but it could have been so much worse for Yukino. At the very least, I don't think Haruno is part of the problem, but rather one of the people trying to find a proper solution to Yukino.


------------------

Originally Posted by Mangonel

@DragoonKain3 I don't think Hikki is a 'roadblock' to Yukino, iirc the whole reason Shizuka stuck him in the Service Club was because she felt he could help her.

I thought Shizuka stuck Hikki in the service club because she thought Yukino could help him.

Ok, back from rewatching eps 1. (Damn it, now I remember why I fell in love with Oregairu in the first place: Hachiman's essays ) This is what Hiratsuka sensei said to Yukino:

"So, as I'm sure you can see, his spirit is as rotten as the look in his eyes. Which makes him a perpetually loney, pathetic soul. In this club, you will rectify his contrary, solitary nature. That's my request."

I also don't think Yui was trying to 'give' Hikki to Yukino. That'd be a 'nice' thing to do and the foreshadowing for the past couple eps is that Yui's not really nice.

It's 'not nice' in the context that Yui is sacrificing her love towards Hikki AND destroying her friendship with Yukino. Everyone of the trio at this point agrees that Hikki's methods are wrong and definitely not nice, and now Yui pulling a Hachiman. More on this later...

With that in mind I think Yui was going to use the Service Club's competition reward to, as she says 'have it all' (IE both a romantic relationship with Hikki and a friendship with Yukino). Yukino's basically a Ditto except she won't copy unless theres a reason to. Yui knows this, and was going to solve Yukino's family problems to win the Service Club prize and tell Yukino something to the effect of 'don't confess to Hachiman'.

I thought so too, but it's very telling that she insists that cookies she baked for Hachiman are only as reward, and just a reward. She also said that twice. The reason why she does this? So she's indirectly telling Yuki that Yuki has nothing to worry about getting in the way of her love. Not only that, but she is also indirectly telling Yuki to ALSO give Hachiman the cookies she (Yuki) has been unable to give him before.

Heck, the entire date thing seems to be her setting up Yukino and Hachiman together. Does her face at 10:00 show someone as someone who wants to keep the two away from each other, or someone who is genuinely happy to see her two best friends having fun with each other? When Yukino went inside at 13:00 when she saw that 'two penguins' mate for life, is her taking pictures of 'fairy penguins' more in line with her trying to keep Hikki for herself, or give more time for Hikki and Yukino alone together? Finally, the very song that was playing in the background is Yui's version of the first ED, in which the lyric of "Hello, hello, alone" really sets up the mood for what Yui is thinking right now.

That's why despite her saying she wants everything to stay the same together forever, I say it is all a ruse. She is lying about the cookies being as 'just thanks', so how much more for 'I want it all for myself'? If anything, THAT is the dirty part of Yui... she's deliberately lying to Yukino that she's doing this for her own gain, just so she TRICKS Yukino into accepting her proposal because otherwise Yukino's guilt will NOT allow her to accept it.


Just as an aside, I don't think S1 ever included the scene where Yui became part of the competition. Like instead of it being just Yuki and Hachi, it's three way now with Yui as well. I know it was in the books since it is part of what I read, and it's clearly referenced here, but I can't recall it ever happening in S1.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Tormenk

Yukino's father thought it reasonable enough to provide the apartment for Yukino, even if her mother was against it. Be it betting on his daughter's sensibility or just wanting peace at home, I would say Yukino proved herself well enough by living apart from the family for two years without any trouble. For all her excellence, she is still a teenage girl. How effective this was towards curing her dependency problem is purely up to debate though.

Well yes, no doubt she would have been fine, she is Yukino after all, my skepticism was mostly related, as you pointed out, to the effectiveness of it in regard of her problem. Also considering that it coud also have worked to accentuate her loneliness, I mean, alone at school, alone at home. It's not a way to cure her dependency, looking more or working as just a way to keep away any source of dependency from her. So not a big surprise that the moment she got exposed again to such a source, Yui and Hikki, once defrosted she would have fallen into it, if we count also how she was cornered by her sister and mom.

Originally Posted by Tormenk

Your assessment wouldn't be far off from my take on the whole proposal Yui pulled.
She adapted Hikki's idea of a strong enough excuse for the other person(s) involved to engage in the plan. She took into account Yukino and Hikki's mentality and tweaked her methodology enough not to repeat Hikki's mistakes as well. No matter how it could have gone down regardless of consent or refusal, someone would have to step in or she would get away with imposing her selfish proposal on them.

Yep, that's what I think also, more or less. But I'm curious about your point about Yui tweaking it to not repeat Hikki's mistakes.

Originally Posted by Anarchy

So Yui's "nice personality" was actually deceit huh, and it seems that she was willing to throw away her feelings for 8man so that the club would stay together.

So on to questions...
1. Yui was saying she would take "everything" does that mean she's taking 8man or she wants to maintain their trio?
2. Yukino made cookies(I think) for 8man and I see it as a romantic thing for Yukino, so does she have feelings for 8man?

I won't say that Yui is not nice, it's just she is not so nice to cross the line of being foolishly selfless. Her desires are equally valid as Yukino's and Hikki's after all. So there's no blame to stand for them if she feels to do so. If that's what she has done.

about your first question my take, as were discussing, is that she is doing both. Since she thinks that Yukino and Hikki have mutual feelings for each other sooner or later those feelings will emerge putting her aside. As frivolity well explained:

Originally Posted by frivolity

She might also have felt that as Yukino and Hachiman got closer, her place in the trio was slowly getting edged away, which is a fairly common social occurrence when a duo within a trio starts getting closer, causing the third member to feel left out. All of this meant that she would eventually lose both her friendship with Yukino and her currently one-sided romantic relationship with Hachiman.

So, due to this thought, confessing is out of the question, her only answer, as she called herself, is to keep the trio together, in this way, or better, in the way she put the whole date, she would have really taken everything, the trio AND Hikki. You have to consider that she values Yukino's friendship almost in the same regard as Hikki's relationship, so for her there's no exclusiveness. And the trio would have become the place Yukino would belong to.

I want to add a little note to this, doing so it doesn't imply that if the role were reversed, she in Yukino's shoes, she would have confessed (letting Yukino feeling left out). No she would be stuck as Yukino is or would be if not burdened and stunned by her family issues and dependency problem.
That's to say that her decision is driven even by her and each other current circumstances, and that these circumstances are perceived as absolute when they are not, as Shizuka warned hikki about before.

[Tormenk]

Originally Posted by Arya

Well yes, no doubt she would have been fine, she is Yukino after all, my skepticism was mostly related, as you pointed out, to the effectiveness of it in regard of her problem. Also considering that it coud also have worked to accentuate her loneliness, I mean, alone at school, alone at home. It's not a way to cure her dependency, looking more or working as just a way to keep away any source of dependency from her. So not a big surprise that the moment she got exposed again to such a source, Yui and Hikki, once defrosted she would have fallen into it, if we count also how she was cornered by her sister and mom.

Yukino relapsing was bound to happen. A problem like that doesn't just up and goes away even if Yukino herself was trying to solve it from the start. Considering the circumstances, to me Yukino was doing okay with Yui and Hikki even if the prodding from Haruno had little effect.Yukimom's effect on the other hand, almost seems like a trauma trigger that resets her back to default.

Yep, that's what I think also, more or less. But I'm curious about your point about Yui tweaking it to not repeat Hikki's mistakes.

I wasn't clear by that, I was referring to Hikki's mistakes with his fake confession back during the Kyoto trip. Yui managed to sidestep the damage to herself by being vague, to get Hikki and Yukino to fill in the blanks to her proposal instead of spelling out everything upfront and leaving no grounds for recourse like Hikki did.

[bastek66]

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[Archon_Wing]

Well, that's a pretty interesting focus. Though I guess we can't always just focus on Yui's chest. =p

[DorkingtonPugsly]

Just had to say the soundtrack is so nice to have. It's got three different composers on it but it's still coherent and it's kinda funny when you compare it with the s1 ost. That one had a lot more jovial silly tracks and what not but this one's mostly feels. It's great.
Especially the one from when Hikki spoke up about what he wanted.

[EroKing]

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[JagdPanther]

So, I ran through the second season the last several days. Basically, my reaction to the entire series, both seasons, is akin to Ed Helms in The Hangover: WHAT THE **** IS GOING ON!?

I am so monumentally confused by this series. I was not expecting some kind of psychological study of teenagers at all. I guess I expected the English title of "romantic comedy" and got something entirely different. Some of the characters are very likeable, like Komachi and Yui (before the final few episodes). I liked Haruno for most of the series until she became much more overtly bad in the last several episodes.

It had its moments, but it has left me so confused that I'm not really sure I can say that I enjoyed it. Especially the, "I'm not as nice as you think I am" kind of stuff from several characters.

I'm getting the sense that, if this series continues (and I don't know if the Light Novels cover this) and if Hachiman ends up with *anyone*, then Hachiman and Yukino are bound to be together. I'm not sure if I'm good with that. Obviously, Yui really likes Hachiman, but it's one of those things where I feel like, "I don't like the idea of her ending up with him." I think Yukino and Hachiman are probably "better" for each other, but it also sucks that it'd really hurt Yui for them to be together.

I'm actually really interested in who Hayama really likes. In the one episode he answered Tobe's question with "Y." My initial reaction was "Yukino," with "Yui" a distant second. It didn't occur to me that it could be Yukinoshita Haruno, though... That'd be interesting. It certainly doesn't seem like he likes Yumiko.

A cursory Google search didn't turn up anything about a 3rd season. How does the series line up with the light novels? Are they significantly different? Do they cover substantial material after the end of season 2?

[Tormenk]

The second season has already covered up to the latest main novel so there's no material at all for a 3rd season. There is a side story volume and the BD bonus novels but nothing that is essential towards the main series/light novels.

[JagdPanther]

Originally Posted by Tormenk

The second season has already covered up to the latest main novel so there's no material at all for a 3rd season. There is a side story volume and the BD bonus novels but nothing that is essential towards the main series/light novels.

Huh. That's unfortunate, then. I see from Wikipedia that it's been almost a year since any Light Novels were released, when they had appeared to be coming out on 3-4 month intervals.

[Kakurin]

Just watched the OVA, a heavy dose of Irohas. And Yukinon talking to a cat. That was fun. More please.

[DragoonKain3]

Fansubs where it's not available first through torrents? Man what has the world come to?

As for the OVA, yeah, Iroha is damn best girl. Says that she is doing this as a practice date for her and Hayama, but she sacrificed herself to become the practice date for Hachiman's real one with his clubmates. She knows exactly who she is, knows exactly what she is doing, and is thinking several steps ahead with every move. So much better than some twat who after all this time can't even figure out herself, and much less figure out what she has to do to be 'happy', but I digress... >_>

Like sure, Iroha gets a newspaper done for free in the process, but it's pretty darn obvious that was just an excuse. Her face upon seeing Hachiman doing a cafe picture with the other girls just like the one she had with him, and especially seeing the photo where Hachiman is looking at Yukinon speaks volumes in that she (Iroha) is getting the poor end of the bargain.

Still, I stand by what I said earlier, and what happened in this OVA doesn't change ANYTHING in what happened in the finale. If it is really true Oregairu will end in the next volume or the next, there really isn't an ending where Yukino and Hachiman will be together, despite their all too obvious feelings for each other. And THAT is a love comedy gone wrong, just as expected.

[Ulin]

Buff, I have never realised how much I missed this show until I watched the OVA

So much Iroha but I loved it. She really has get to the second position in my favourite girls of the show. (Sorry, I am still a Yukinon fan), but seriously, I don't know who is she trying to fool

[Kopi]

Hearing the OP again feels good. On the other hand, I feel bad for Iroha given that she had no chance whatsoever. Totally like that moment when she accidentally showed the picture she took with 8man

That photo at the end had me thinking that 8man was doing his usual looking away from the camera pose since there were 2 photos already of him doing that. But when the whole photo was shown, it is implied he was looking at Yukinon. Wow damn.

[SuitUp]

Oh god, I missed this show so badly, and watching this in animated form got me as excited aa I was when reading the chapter

[Kanon]

It's really hard not to like Iroha. Out of the three main girls, she's the one that seems the most real to me.