Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory discussion

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Yeah, it's sad that they weren't able to extend that battle into an epic one with the Alex coming in last to finish things like in the anime.

The other thing that really hurts it is the fact that the GM Sniper II and GM Command (Space Type) are supposed to be near-Gundam-level MS themselves in terms of overall performance, and the Guncannon Mass Production Type is supposed to have thick armor, which is why it doesn't have a shield, so being taken out with a single shotgun blast from a distance like that just felt like BS to me.

[23 gundam fan]

let me say i really like 0083 and the art is some of the best i have seen, it still in my opinion holds up well today. i also think the 80 music is rad. but the problem i have is the main character kou(who is my favorite character) doesnt do anything as far as feats go. most gundam main characters have one or more major feats in there series. all you have to do is answer these questions. does kou stop the gundam from being taken, does kou keep the the gundam from leaving earth. does kou stop gato from shooting the nuke. does kou stop the colony drop. your answers to these question will tell you if kou did anything worthwild in this show, and sadly the answer is NO. the most frustating part about all of this is at the end of the show what do the writers give him, they give kou the spotlight of killing cima. cima you guys. not the great gato but cima, whats her reputatuion as a ms pilot. not on the level of gatos i would think. it was almost like a pity victory they gave kou. at least let him have taken down gato in battle.(i am not even gonna touch the nina factor, thats a rant for another time)

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan

your answers to these question will tell you if kou did anything worthwild in this show, and sadly the answer is NO.

Agreed, more or less. I also think that Kou is a (if not THE most) useless Gundam pilot main character ever. Nina dumped him is just the icing on the cake for Kou's 'loser' status .

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Actually, if anything, the fact that he DIDN'T really do anything (at least "officially" as all the more secretive records of the Delaz Conflict along with the Gundam Development Project were erased) in the long-run actually makes him one of the more realistic main characters at least.

Unlike main characters like Amuro, Kamille, Judau, and others who are much more focused on and, whether by themselves or on their team, seem to single-handedly change the course of the Universal Century in some way, main characters like Kou Uraki, Shiro Amada, Yu Kajima (Blue Destiny), the White Dingo Team (Rise from the Ashes) and such are just ordinary soldiers within the Earth Federation who, overall, really didn't do anything of the sort.

Yes, they had their moments within their own stories, but in the big picture of things, really WEREN'T big deals and were very isolated incidents.

Very much like real life military. You may have a few soldiers doing notable things on missions and getting honors for it, but it's not like every single one of those actions will greatly affect the war/conflict they're involved in and/or alter the course of history like capturing Saddam Hussein or killing Osama Bin Laden did.



Also, I think it's a bit unfair to put all the blame on Kou. Yes, he's the main character, but he was also part of the whole Albion crew who was also tasked to do the same things along with other Federation forces. It's not like Kou was the absolute only one tasked to or trying to do all those things that they failed at. Though, that also makes it more realistic as, when it comes to war and conflict, you won't win all the time and can lose pretty often and it's the soldiers who usually pay for it.


As for Cima, while she may not have an extensive background and is more of a minor character in 0083, she is hardly a bad pilot herself given she was, IIRC, pretty high up in Zeon's Marine Corps which are the ones who did the dirty work, like the initial colony gas attacks for Operation British. (The initial leader passed the blame of the attacks onto Cima and her squad while he escaped to Axis at the end of the OYW, which is why she and the other Marines under command are so scorned by both sides.)

The fact that she had a Gelgoog Marine Commander Type along with commanding a Zanzibar-class ship also shows that she must've had good skills to be given such a strong and rare MS (in terms of normal OYW MS, only the Gelgoog Jager surpasses it) and ship (only the Gwazine-class and Dolos-class were bigger and more powerful at the time).

[23 gundam fan]

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

Actually, if anything, the fact that he DIDN'T really do anything (at least "officially" as all the more secretive records of the Delaz Conflict along with the Gundam Development Project were erased) in the long-run actually makes him one of the more realistic main characters at least.

Unlike main characters like Amuro, Kamille, Judau, and others who are much more focused on and, whether by themselves or on their team, seem to single-handedly change the course of the Universal Century in some way, main characters like Kou Uraki, Shiro Amada, Yu Kajima (Blue Destiny), the White Dingo Team (Rise from the Ashes) and such are just ordinary soldiers within the Earth Federation who, overall, really didn't do anything of the sort.

Yes, they had their moments within their own stories, but in the big picture of things, really WEREN'T big deals and were very isolated incidents.

Very much like real life military. You may have a few soldiers doing notable things on missions and getting honors for it, but it's not like every single one of those actions will greatly affect the war/conflict they're involved in and/or alter the course of history like capturing Saddam Hussein or killing Osama Bin Laden did.



Also, I think it's a bit unfair to put all the blame on Kou. Yes, he's the main character, but he was also part of the whole Albion crew who was also tasked to do the same things along with other Federation forces. It's not like Kou was the absolute only one tasked to or trying to do all those things that they failed at. Though, that also makes it more realistic as, when it comes to war and conflict, you won't win all the time and can lose pretty often and it's the soldiers who usually pay for it.


As for Cima, while she may not have an extensive background and is more of a minor character in 0083, she is hardly a bad pilot herself given she was, IIRC, pretty high up in Zeon's Marine Corps which are the ones who did the dirty work, like the initial colony gas attacks for Operation British. (The initial leader passed the blame of the attacks onto Cima and her squad while he escaped to Axis at the end of the OYW, which is why she and the other Marines under command are so scorned by both sides.)

The fact that she had a Gelgoog Marine Commander Type along with commanding a Zanzibar-class ship also shows that she must've had good skills to be given such a strong and rare MS (in terms of normal OYW MS, only the Gelgoog Jager surpasses it) and ship (only the Gwazine-class and Dolos-class were bigger and more powerful at the time).

i see what you are saying but in regards to kou and the albion crew being tasked to go after unit 1, remember the albion crew wasnt given the gundam. kou was that in itself sets him apart. when kou is entrusted with the federations most advanced gundam, one would expected a lot from him. he also had the permission from lt burning and the captain. you have to believe a lot was expected. he did perform best in the gundam as well. on to cima as far as her ms abilities, we have to go on what we have seen. just because she had access to a advance ms, that in itself doesnt mean much. remember gato is famous and his tactics are taught by the federation for god sake. think about that, gato is one man any of the albion ms pilots were looking to take down. not cima there is a reason for that.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

Actually, if anything, the fact that he DIDN'T really do anything (at least "officially" as all the more secretive records of the Delaz Conflict along with the Gundam Development Project were erased) in the long-run actually makes him one of the more realistic main characters at least.

Unlike main characters like Amuro, Kamille, Judau, and others who are much more focused on and, whether by themselves or on their team, seem to single-handedly change the course of the Universal Century in some way, main characters like Kou Uraki, Shiro Amada, Yu Kajima (Blue Destiny), the White Dingo Team (Rise from the Ashes) and such are just ordinary soldiers within the Earth Federation who, overall, really didn't do anything of the sort.

Yes, they had their moments within their own stories, but in the big picture of things, really WEREN'T big deals and were very isolated incidents.

Very much like real life military. You may have a few soldiers doing notable things on missions and getting honors for it, but it's not like every single one of those actions will greatly affect the war/conflict they're involved in and/or alter the course of history like capturing Saddam Hussein or killing Osama Bin Laden did.

Also, I think it's a bit unfair to put all the blame on Kou. Yes, he's the main character, but he was also part of the whole Albion crew who was also tasked to do the same things along with other Federation forces. It's not like Kou was the absolute only one tasked to or trying to do all those things that they failed at. Though, that also makes it more realistic as, when it comes to war and conflict, you won't win all the time and can lose pretty often and it's the soldiers who usually pay for it.

Well, to be fair, some people didn’t criticize Kou Uraki’s realistic-ness but his useless-ness compared to other main characters in G series. Yes, I knew that Kou’s character was never meant to do something big that can change the course of UC. I already count that element out of my opinion on him. Now, let’s see things from his own world, like you suggest. You see, he failed quite a number of missions given to him more or less just like what 23 gundam fan mentioned previously. Given that he was more of a ‘military dog’ and didn’t seem to have any idealism to stand for, when he failed a mission given to him, it’s a total loss for him and his character. Unlike another side-story main-character Shiro Amada, for example, who accomplished many things within his own ‘world’ even by ignoring the mission for the sake of his idealism. Not to mention the girl Kou liked, dumped him after using him as a rebound guy. That added more ‘pathethic element’ to Kou. Of course I know that the rejection is not Kou’s fault (it’s Nina’s). Unfair as it is, it can’t be helped that it made Kou looks more like a loser .

[23 gundam fan]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Well, to be fair, some people didn’t criticize Kou Uraki’s realistic-ness but his useless-ness compared to other main characters in G series. Yes, I knew that Kou’s character was never meant to do something big that can change the course of UC. I already count that element out of my opinion on him. Now, let’s see things from his own world, like you suggest. You see, he failed quite a number of missions given to him more or less just like what 23 gundam fan mentioned previously. Given that he was more of a ‘military dog’ and didn’t seem to have any idealism to stand for, when he failed a mission given to him, it’s a total loss for him and his character. Unlike another side-story main-character Shiro Amada, for example, who accomplished many things within his own ‘world’ even by ignoring the mission for the sake of his idealism. Not to mention the girl Kou liked, dumped him after using him as a rebound guy. That added more ‘pathethic element’ to Kou. Of course I know that the rejection is not Kou’s fault (it’s Nina’s). Unfair as it is, it can’t be helped that it made Kou looks more like a loser .

i never got around to the screw up that is nina. i think the writers were trying to give a certain outlook on war from a non-soldier, but it just went downhill fast. it made nina look stupid and foolish to the tenth degree, and that ending after what went down between the three of them. she shows up after kou is out of prison, and she has the stupid look on her face like just maybe we can make it work. i decided that when the picture goes dark we dont see that kou is slapping the mess out of nina. thats the only way he can redeem his character. i mean how can kou believe anything she says at that point seeing as how the other man involved is dead, it makes kou look like second best again. i mean wants to be second best in ms and women when it comes to gato.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Then again, he was no Amuro either, so I think we can cut Kou a bit of slack there.

Not TOO much, but he was really given the Gundam not because of his own "skill", but because of how he apparently pushed the Gundam beyond its initially thought design limitations (which was something Nina brought up in terms of who they would want as a test pilot for it). Since he wasn't some ace or veteran pilot coupled with the situation, I can only guess he didn't really pay a whole lot of attention to the limitations and just kept pushing the Gundam harder and harder.

Basically, he was a lot more reckless with it, lol.

[rakusukira]

the most lol moment, IMO, was when Nina dumped Kou.. It was just... simply PATHETIC yet EPIC..

you can't have it all Kou..

what even made it more pathetic was when Kou seemed to have forgiven Nina at the end ..
Gato was even more of an idiot than Kou..

I just loved how everyone went crazy in the end.. Pathetic yet epic.. 0083 is one of my faves by the way

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

In the end, 0083 did its job in establishing a link between MSG and Zeta with the formation of the Titans and such.

[23 gundam fan]

two quick topics, one was mora and keith an actually couple, or did they just hook up once or twice on the ship. two did anyone not like the fight between unit 3 and gatos neue ziel. i could not stand that fight, here is why, even with the orchis there is still a gundam inside of it. but the neue ziel looks like a freaking snail in space. i hated that, gundams shouldnt be fighting bugs in space,tell me that battle didnt look like that. the whole insect looking ms or mobile armor is something that really bothers me about the gundam shows. i mean i know the neue ziel has a lot of cool weapons and even a i-field but still, the look of it is just lost on me.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

1.) Like the whole Kou / Nina / Gato triangle, I have a feeling it was more out of nowhere. Not like it really matters in the long-run. Probably just a way to let Keith "shine" a little given he usually got the raw end of things pretty often.


2.) In general, I thought it was pretty cool.

However, it was also very impractical on Kou's part.

The Dendrobium Orchis is more like an older Mobile Armor meant for high speed hit-and-run attacks like the earlier Zeon MS (the Bigro, Val Varo, etc). Even the large beam sabers are meant for fly-by-slicing battleships as shown with Kou slicing through the bridge of the Musai. It is NOT meant at all for engaging in any sort of fancy melee combat like Kou was trying to do against Gato in the Neue Ziel, which already was superior to it in almost every way outside of versatility; having mostly various-sized beam weapons with only a couple small missile launchers as back-up weapons as opposed to the Orchis with a bunch of various-sized missile launchers, demolition chains, and/or smaller beam rifles and bazookas for the Stamen to use too behind its mega beam cannon, thus more weapons that could penetrate the Neue Ziel's I-Field.

Otherwise, the Neue Ziel had comparable pure speed, but FAR greater maneuverability, the half-control system (early version of the quasi-psycommu system I'd say) with remote arms, and FOUR INTERNAL I-Field generators as opposed to the Orchis' EXTERNAL ONE generator (which was easily taken out). The Neue Ziel also, while also not exactly meant for fancy melee combat, is at least more capable with actual arms and hidden arms for melee use compared to the more stiff and limited claws of the Orchis.


EDIT: And, as shown, once the Orchis lost its I-Field, the Neue Ziel began dominating it, taking out one of its weapon containers, blasting off one of its claw arms at the end, and such.

[23 gundam fan]

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

1.) Like the whole Kou / Nina / Gato triangle, I have a feeling it was more out of nowhere. Not like it really matters in the long-run. Probably just a way to let Keith "shine" a little given he usually got the raw end of things pretty often.


2.) In general, I thought it was pretty cool.

However, it was also very impractical on Kou's part.

The Dendrobium Orchis is more like an older Mobile Armor meant for high speed hit-and-run attacks like the earlier Zeon MS (the Bigro, Val Varo, etc). Even the large beam sabers are meant for fly-by-slicing battleships as shown with Kou slicing through the bridge of the Musai. It is NOT meant at all for engaging in any sort of fancy melee combat like Kou was trying to do against Gato in the Neue Ziel, which already was superior to it in almost every way outside of versatility; having mostly various-sized beam weapons with only a couple small missile launchers as back-up weapons as opposed to the Orchis with a bunch of various-sized missile launchers, demolition chains, and/or smaller beam rifles and bazookas for the Stamen to use too behind its mega beam cannon, thus more weapons that could penetrate the Neue Ziel's I-Field.

Otherwise, the Neue Ziel had comparable pure speed, but FAR greater maneuverability, the half-control system (early version of the quasi-psycommu system I'd say) with remote arms, and FOUR INTERNAL I-Field generators as opposed to the Orchis' EXTERNAL ONE generator (which was easily taken out). The Neue Ziel also, while also not exactly meant for fancy melee combat, is at least more capable with actual arms and hidden arms for melee use compared to the more stiff and limited claws of the Orchis.


EDIT: And, as shown, once the Orchis lost its I-Field, the Neue Ziel began dominating it, taking out one of its weapon containers, blasting off one of its claw arms at the end, and such.

since both the neue ziel and dendrobium orchis were both not fit for melee combat. from a writing standpoint why the heck would you put the two main characters in them. after the great battle between unit one and unit two why go down a path that is not as fun to see. why take a step back, i dont understand that the fights are supposed to get better.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Probably because...

1.) It's not done often, if at all.

2.) If they were to fight like 2 MAs going at it, the battle would've had to last quite a bit longer with both of them taking shots at the other while passing eachother in head-on passes or something.

At least the way it's done is still cool to watch as opposed to just flying around and shooting until someone lands a lucky hit or simply repeating a MS battle with different MS. Besides, it's not like their fight decided anything either given how it ends.

[Yu Ominae]

Need to ask if the 0083 novels debuted in North America? Aside from the fact that I know Japan had two volumes about it.

[durack]

Thread resurrection - got my new 0083 Blu-Rays and rewatched the show.

Still quite good and nice to see it in high definition.

I must say that I am in the minority about this show - I always liked it because the characters were so flawed. OK, the love triangle didn't really need to be there, I give you that.

I must say that Kou is f-n lucky he did not get the death penalty for the crap he pulled in the last episode.

Edit: lucky not likely, I think it was autocorrect

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Originally Posted by durack

Thread resurrection - got my new 0083 Blu-Rays and rewatched the show.

Still quite good and nice to see it in high definition.

I must say that I am in the minority about this show - I always liked it because the characters were so flawed. OK, the love triangle didn't really need to be there, I give you that.

I must say that Kou is f-n likely he did not get the death penalty for the crap he pulled in the last episode.

Most likely just not a big enough fish to warrant it. Captain Synapse though...yeah...

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

I just found something interesting:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/qFv8b9EBvU4

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That's news to me. No wonder the BGM sounds familiar when I first heard it in the anime.

Like, wow. That is some serious case of plagiarism. I can't believe it happened in Gundam 0083.

What have you done, Mitsuo Hagita?! If it's true then shame on you...

[YF19EX]

I was and am still a big fan of 0083. It was the first Gundam Series I ever watched from fansubs. It was the pinical of what I believe defined the 90s mecha animation mechanics and detals that would follow many other anime Sunrise would do into the 90s.

But as purveyor of movie and program music, I also became aware of how much 0083 ripped off whole tracks from other movies. In fact the latest piece I became aware of came from Death Wish 4 (although apparently the Hollywood studio used these tracks in other films of theirs too).

YouTube

https://youtu.be/qYRCkg0IlIw

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Start at 1:25

YouTube

https://youtu.be/eeWATwwDgp0

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He also used many pieces from James Horner's Glory, which came out 1 year before 0083 happened. I have the original 0083 soundracks and I do think they credit James Horner in the covers. Also if you notice in many of the releases of 0083 over the years, the soundtrack has changed sometimes replacing or outright modifying certain pieces, so they sound like but are not the same as the original Hollywood tracks they were copying.

[Helius]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/KdoBbdxCmlU

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