2011-02-24, 01:58 | Link #481 | |||
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Homura's statements over how Kyubey does not consider what he's doing tp be cruel hardly leads to Kyubey being a villain. Quote:
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2011-02-24, 02:04 | Link #482 | ||||||
Crossdressing Menmatic
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I also do not know if we are allowed to seek out inconsistencies in logic - not everything that happens in the anime is logical. We can say that the anime does not follow our logic, but that is just us. The anime could have followed it's own logic, or chosen not to be logical at all! I realize this large post has one sentence relating to Kyubey. More proof this is more about the abstract than the concrete. /bedtime |
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2011-02-24, 02:04 | Link #483 | ||
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The argument is pointless though. We'll have to wait and see.
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2011-02-24, 02:09 | Link #485 | |
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This anime has a tendency to make me want to know things as quickly as possible.
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2011-02-24, 02:10 | Link #486 | |
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But you're totally right. There's no need for QB to be evil. He can be the true antagonist and morally ambiguous all the same.
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2011-02-24, 02:18 | Link #487 | |
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The only thing that keeps him morally ambiguous is the idea that what he's doing is (intentionally or unintentionally) helping humanity (i.e. contracting magical girls in order to fight dangerous witches). Now, if Kyubey is revealed as the main antagonist, that will require a plot revelation that would render his actions not helpful to humanity. That means that any even remotely acceptable justification he would have for endangering the lives of teenage girls would then be gone. At that point, even I would call him evil. In my opinion, you can't take Kyubey as he is now, and turn him into an antagonist on top of that, without making him evil.
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2011-02-24, 02:30 | Link #488 |
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To me he'd just have to oppose the protagonists,in this case the MGs,and since MGs themselves aren't really out to save humanity either (or at least Kyoko and Homura aren't) being opposed to the MGs doesn't have to mean he wants to destroy Humanity,in the end I could see "saving humanity" as not really relevant to the plot.
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2011-02-24, 02:30 | Link #489 | ||
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Bolded are logically unsound things when compared to the real word. But the situation as a whole is logically consistent in the terms of that world. Dramatic tension leads to climax. Misdirection leads to a twist. It's still to be seen which one Kyubey supposedly represent. I tend to prefer dramatic tension that stems from clear-cut conflict rather than ominousness.
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2011-02-24, 02:37 | Link #491 | ||||
Crossdressing Menmatic
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I find it uninteresting to take that position, because anything can be proven morally ambiguous. I feel like you are trying to automatically rule out any arguments suggesting that Kyubey is evil or good. I do feel that Kyubey is both good and evil, but am arguing that he intends to do more evil than good. Quote:
Kyubey is the evil antagonist; he has been torturing Madoka. But at the last episode, he fixes ALL of the world's problems. That makes him good on the whole, no? Madoka's suffering was just a test! An antagonist is defined as the opposing character against the protagonist. If you'd like to argue that Madoka is not the protagonist, I would disagree. Quote:
You are equating expectedness to enjoyability. So, by this logic, would the most unexpected plot twist be the most enjoyable? For example, what if Madoka was actually a space alien from the Big Bang and is working to figure out the difference between red and blue? Quote:
What if that diamond-allergic person has allergic reactions by growing 0.1 mm taller? Perhaps the anime chose not to explain that part, or perhaps the people of that anime only have allergic reactions on a different world. My point here is that there are some things that will go unexplained. Just as we cannot say what happened before what happened before the Big Bang, anime writers make mistakes. They are only human... if you wish to say that one anime is inconsistent, then you have to say all anime is inconsistent. Now, if you think there are certain things that are more important to be consistent than others, I would agree. That is the difference between Kyubey being a puppet and Kyubey being the Joker from Batman. Last edited by Deconstructor; 2011-02-24 at 03:22. Reason: Strong point. |
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2011-02-24, 02:39 | Link #492 | ||||
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We'll just have to wait and see. Quote:
This is precisely what I mean myself when I talk about logical consistency. Not that a show can't be incredibly weird and fantastic compared to the real world, but just that it internally makes sense. Quote:
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2011-02-24 at 02:50. |
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2011-02-24, 03:09 | Link #493 | |
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If it means what it obviously could mean, i could see the MG not being pleased with it. |
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2011-02-24, 03:15 | Link #494 | |||
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*ahem* As far as plot twist is concerned, my stance is the most expected is not enjoyable. That doesn't mean that it has a linear progression up the unexpectedness scale. Doing the most expected is the safety net; people might like it, but it is not exceptional. Anything besides that can range from awesome to horrible. Quote:
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2011-02-24, 03:28 | Link #495 |
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About relying on things external to anime, most reliable thing is a good scriptwriting. If we can’t rely on that than we already screwed anyway.
I finished Mistborn trilogy recently and if there is a good writing that was it. It goes like this: Protagonist: Why?! I: Why?!!! Brandon Sanderson: That's why!!! After that I can only seat and repeat “oh shit oh shit oh shit” for about a minute totally astonished and dumbfounded by beauty of the revelation. Nearly impossible to predict, but foreshadowed many times and absolutely logical. And what we have here? Protagonist: Why?! I: *facepalm* Because of QB. How can you be so stupid? Gen: It is QB!!!!! I: At last.... I’m afraid it does not count as a good writing. Not in my book at least. May be there is some way for good “QB is evil” ending, just not that straightforward.
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2011-02-24, 03:39 | Link #496 | ||
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Luke, your feelings will betray you.
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Good night. |
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2011-02-24, 04:07 | Link #497 | |
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Do you get where I coming from now? This is the freaking twist I'm seeing. This is the really surprising and totally unexpected ending I'm expecting. Even if Kyubey is revealed to be the true antagonist, I expect Urobuchi to crush everyone's expectations having Madoka saving the day (or not) by NOT contracting. We already know the girls' soul is the actual source of the MG's power. We only need a few more facts to make this twist possible and logical, and then you'll have both a totally unexpected ending AND Kyubey as antagonist all packed together. There's no point in discussing the likelihood of this twist to happen right now. It's too early and we need a few more clues. Let's just wait and see.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-02-24 at 07:55. |
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2011-02-24, 04:14 | Link #498 | ||
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The show built on the expectation that Kyubey is evil so much (with ominous lighting, even) that when come the big reveal and it turns out that he really is evil, it'd be kinda unexciting. It'd be what most people expect. It'd be what some other people wish not to happen because of the obviousness. The former would not be surprised, and the latter's surprise would be along the line of "I can't believe they think this is a good idea". Of course, there's always the possibility of them playing it straight compounding with another plot element (heck, maybe like your whole "Kyubey is evil but fix everything and it's all just a test" scenario) that is written so awesomely awesome that it would make even the former pleasantly surprised and the latter also satisfied. Ah, good night. Quote:
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2011-02-24, 04:25 | Link #499 | |
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I'll be frank here, QB being the minsunderstood good guy all along is the kind of cop out I expect to see in Nanoha, NOT in Madoka. Not like I imply that you said it but more because I keep hearing that suggestion regularly well enough to have my eyes roll. |
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