Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[WarpObscura]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Well, some filler and some exposition, short but somehow concise chapter. Apparently the next highlight of Force will be this Mock battle, we would see if Tohma keeps his unbelievable Story Breker Powers or if he receives a Redemption Promotion(like the Wolks) that downgrade his "game breakness" to more story-manageable levels.

You mean Demotion. Promotion is when becoming a good guy makes a villain stronger.

[Zero Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

- Nanoha and Vita presents themselves with the same ranks they sported on StrikerS(Captain and 2nd Lietunant respectively). They divided the assistants in two groups, white shirts for beginners(Tohma, Isis, Lily) and black shirts for advanced(the rest). Vita mentions that the novices have forbidden to intervene on official activity, at least until they pass their first stage of training and learn to take care of themselves and their teammates.
- The training begins, Isis is confident about her physical prowess but 40 minutes after all the newbies are already tired by the warm-up exercises while everyone else is just ok, even Caro is enjoying herself xDU.
- Teana and Ginga join the practice and the warm-up ends to let pass to the combat training, everyone grab a Strike Cannon and start running around(yeah, they have a storage filled with those, apparently xDU).
- Vita start commenting her worries to Nanoha about having Tohma and Lily doing training with them as apparently she still don't have full thrust in them, still she's confident to raise those three to an average military level.
- Vita orders everyone to gear up in thier own suits for a mock battle, everyone is impressed at Tohma and Isis's protective gear(Caro even points out Tohma's sinister appearance). Tohma notes that his eyes are now green-ish blue instead of red. Subaru point's out that it's thanks to Lily stabilizing their power to allow him to use his body freely.

I call it a spirit. I feel happy when Tohma was finally able to control his power.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Please don't make things up.

Then by all means, I await the reasonable explanation why they don't work in warzones instead of killing civilians.

Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane

Awww, Isis, you are such a wimp. :3

The difference between a skilled amateur and a trained soldier, it seems.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Then by all means, I await the reasonable explanation why they don't work in warzones instead of killing civilians.

By 'making things up' I was refering to the "kill whoever they want whenever they want for fun" comment because that is completely untrue and a prime example of exaggerating the flaws of people you don't like.

Who says they don't work in warzones? But right now at this current point in time they're on another mission to take out those scientists. Being tied down to some country's military wouldn't allow the freedom to do that.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Being tied down to some country's military wouldn't allow the freedom to do that.

You don't need to be tied down to a country's military to engage in a warzone you know. That's what mercenaries and privateers are for.

[Koveras Alvane]

Originally Posted by Keroko

The difference between a skilled amateur and a trained soldier, it seems.

More like the difference between a person who's been through the White Devil's live fire exercises and one who hasn't. Because I am pretty sure that's how even experienced Bureau mages end up in Nanoha's regular class at first.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

You don't need to be tied down to a country's military to engage in a warzone you know. That's what mercenaries and privateers are for.

Still, they can't be fighting in a warzone and search for the scientists at the same time.

[Arkeus]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

By 'making things up' I was refering to the "kill whoever they want whenever they want for fun" comment because that is completely untrue and a prime example of exaggerating the flaws of people you don't like.

Because thye have been shown to do that. They talked about their modus operandi a few times. That's what they do.

Who says they don't work in warzones? But right now at this current point in time they're on another mission to take out those scientists. Being tied down to some country's military wouldn't allow the freedom to do that.

And, again, this means they take their personal goals as more important as actually working legally.

So they are going to kill people randomly because they don't accept being tied down to any kind of law. This has been shown, you know. This isn't some kind of theory or anything.

The system of their group is pretty much that they don't want to obey any kind of exterior rules.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Arkeus

The system of their group is pretty much that they don't want to obey any kind of exterior rules.

Further demonstrated by Curren's reaction when she found Vandin Corp. attempted to impose their own "rules" on the game. If you don't dance at the rythm of the Huckebein song, then you must pay.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Arkeus

Because thye have been shown to do that. They talked about their modus operandi a few times. That's what they do.

Gee, I don't see "for the lulz" on there.

Also, let's look at what they've done before and see if it was ever 'just for fun.' Note that having fun while doing it is not the same thing.

Veyron in the church: we don't know why exactly he did it, but he sure didn't look like he enjoyed it. He specifically notes that he was annoyed by it.

Cypha vs Signum: Signum got in Cypha's way of securing Thoma and she felt it would be a good message to the Bureau.

Huckebein vs Section 6: Section 6 attacked first.

Hucks vs scientists: They destroyed an Eclipse producing facility and also got some information.

So then, when exactly have the Huckebein gone "Killing these people would be so much fun! Let's go!"

Originally Posted by Arkeus

And, again, this means they take their personal goals as more important as actually working legally.

So they are going to kill people randomly because they don't accept being tied down to any kind of law. This has been shown, you know. This isn't some kind of theory or anything.

The system of their group is pretty much that they don't want to obey any kind of exterior rules.

This legality thing is crap if you want to argue that they're horrible for killing people.

But if you want to play that way, the Huckebein have their own laws so they are killing 'legally' within their own system. Countries rarely care about the laws of other countries as history has shown several times, so then they should all be considered evil too.

[Akiyoshi]

Of course the Huckebein have their own rules, that's the point of calling them anarchists, they flat out reject any rules besides the ones impossed by them. and by their rules you're only food or a mean for them to reach a goal.

About your above statements i agree those aren't entirely "For the Evulz" but i must add something...

Veyron in the church: Annoyed =/= feelling responsible.
Cypha VS. Signum: Cypha was menacing Lily's life(if that where her true intentions or not didn't change what Signum and Agito saw and hear).
Huckebein VS Section Six: The Hucks kidnapped innocent people and near-fatally injured and official agent while proving being lethaly dangerous and unrepenant criminals. Enough reason to attempt an aggressive capture.
Huckebein at Vandin Corporation: They killed freaking everyone on the place from guards, executives and scientists to office boys, janitors and secretaries. Sure, they have a more "understandable" reason this time but still.

And every freaking time they behaved like A-holes.

Of course, some villains are beloved for that exact reason, so it's ok liking them for being insufferable dicks, i just find frutrating people attach to them attributes and/or traits they didn't have demonstrated yet.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Veyron in the church: we don't know why exactly he did it, but he sure didn't look like he enjoyed it. He specifically notes that he was annoyed by it.

Wasn't that more like, he was waiting for Touma, got bored, and decided to kill the nuns while he waited?

Hucks vs scientists: They destroyed an Eclipse producing facility and also got some information.

As people have said earlier, putting aside the scientists, did the innocent cleaning ladies, food workers, etc, need to die there?

[Arkeus]

There is also the fact that Veyron, about Thoma's village, was wondering why he had no report of doing it as it was the kind of things he usually does. this also makes me wonder if Infected loses their memories as times goes on (hence the need for diaries of massacres).

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Of course the Huckebein have their own rules, that's the point of calling them anarchists, they flat out reject any rules besides the ones impossed by them. and by their rules you're only food or a mean for them to reach a goal.

Then every country that's ever gone to war is an anarchist. I'm sure Iraq had plenty of laws against killing, but that didn't stop the US from carpet bombing them.

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

About your above statements i agree those aren't entirely "For the Evulz" but i must add something...

Besides the point. Some one made a factually erroneous comment and I was pointing out the error in it.

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Of course, some villains are beloved for that exact reason, so it's ok liking them for being insufferable dicks, i just find frutrating people attach to them attributes and/or traits they didn't have demonstrated yet.

That goes both ways. You are acting like they're the spawn of Hitler and Skeletor whose piss is pure liquid malevolence. And that they eat babies and kick puppies too. Making some one out to be worse than they really are presents the same issue as making some one out to be better than they really are does.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Wasn't that more like, he was waiting for Touma, got bored, and decided to kill the nuns while he waited?

He says "You're too late. Thanks to that I've had to unecessarily kill in such a disgusting place."

That doesn't suggest he did it out of boredom. Note that Thoma asked him if he killed the nuns and Veyron's just all "Huh?" and never answers the question. Plus you can see how the walls of the church have sets of 3 claws marks (Wolverine style). Veyron doesn't have something like that. He might have a clawed hand, but that would leave a 4 or 5 clawed mark.

Also note that he tells Thoma to hand the divider over if he wants to live. If he was really so cut throat why not just kill Thoma and take it?

Originally Posted by Arkeus

There is also the fact that Veyron, about Thoma's village, was wondering why he had no report of doing it as it was the kind of things he usually does. this also makes me wonder if Infected loses their memories as times goes on (hence the need for diaries of massacres).

Huh? Where did you get that from? Veyron just brushes off Thoma's question and tells Isis that if he wants to know more seek out the Huckebein family.

[vic-vic]

Someone mentioned earlier, that recent character show that Veyron said that description of attackers (on Thoma village) close to his and Curren, but he didn`t remember doing so.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by vic-vic

close to his and Curren, but he didn`t remember doing so.

It was Tuesday.

[aers]

No pictures because they caught me (and the Chinese guys, apparently) napping..

(there were 3 posted, but they always get uploaded to temporary image hosts that go down pretty quick so unless you're there at the time...)

Spoiler for force 19 summary jp:

ヴェイロンが上半身裸で刺青をしたディーゴと、アルが頭にバンダナをまいたホスト風の長髪男、マティと戦う ことに。序盤はヴェイロン、アルと共に撃ちまくって優勢だったが、
アルは顔面をつかまれて吹っ飛ばされ、ディーゴもフィフスとリアクトする（ディバイダーVC 9 シュトロゼック・リアクテッド　クロムグリード）
ディーゴは両うでに出現した巨大なマシンアームでヴェイロンの頭をつかみ、砕こうとする。
しかしヴェイロンは「このクソカスが…嫌なもんを思い出させやがって…」とほとんど効いてない様子で、ディ ーゴの腕を引きちぎり、逆にディーゴの頭を砕いた。

一方のアルもピンピンしており、「弾丸が効かねーかったりー相手ならこいつの出番だ」
（ディバイダー718　リアクテッド「プラズマケイン」）
「こいつで死んどけっ！プラズマディスチャージャー！」巨大な火球がマティを飲み込んだ。

戦闘が終わり、パンツ一丁で「参りました！」と土下座するマティ。アルは一応手加減したらしい。さっそく尋 問を始めるヴェイロンたち。なぜウィルスをばらまいたかというと、
優秀な感染者やゼロ因子保有者を「スポンサー」が探しているかららしい。そのスポンサーは誰だと問う前にマ ティの脳内の自壊ユニットが作動し、マティ死亡。
引き上げようとするヴェイロンだったが、アルはフィフスを拾っていくことにする。
フィフスを介抱しながら、アルはトーマについて「特務と凶鳥、両方に融通のきく子になってくれたら、なかな か面白そうなんだけどね」とつぶやいた。

To be continued Record20

some other stuff that was posted as spoilers, dunno if it's just info in nyantype or something else

Spoiler:

トーマとアイシスたちはスバルやギン姉たちと模擬戦開始（2ページで出番終了）

フェイトと眼帯子はヴァンデイン・コーポーションで専務のハーディス・ヴァンデインに事情聴取を行う。ヴァ ンデイン社が襲われたのはエクリプスウィルスを無断で培養していたりレプ
リカディバイダーの開発を行っていたためフッケバインに襲われたらしい。
それなりの処分をするというフェイト達に対し、専務はフッケバインの現れると思われる予測
地点を教えると取引。

その場所、第14無人世界移住調査地区に二人の男が現れる。その背後にフィフスという
少女が。男たちは地区にいた民間人にウィルスをバラまき始める。そこにミサイル弾頭が
着弾。現れたのはヴェイロンとアル。当然のように戦闘開始（ここで18回終了）

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Who says they don't work in warzones? But right now at this current point in time they're on another mission to take out those scientists. Being tied down to some country's military wouldn't allow the freedom to do that.

By "work in warzones" I mean "work in places where combat is expected" not "work in warzones occasionally, then butcher civilians in peaceful places the other days."

Originally Posted by Sheba

It was Tuesday.

To translate for those unfamiliar with Street Fighter, "I don't remember doing that" could mean "There were so many villages I destroyed, how the hell am I supposed to remember each individual one?"

[Justin_Brett]

Not that he delivered it as charismatically as Raul Julia, of course.

There was that tidbit on Veyron's wiki that says the other Hucks kinda find the stuff he does distasteful, but that's kind of an informed attribute given he's not that different from the rest of them. I guess he does find churches disgusting, but it's not like atheism is a Moral Event Horizon.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by aers

No pictures because they caught me (and the Chinese guys, apparently) napping..

(there were 3 posted, but they always get uploaded to temporary image hosts that go down pretty quick so unless you're there at the time...)

Spoiler for force 19 summary jp:

ヴェイロンが上半身裸で刺青をしたディーゴと、アルが頭にバンダナをまいたホスト風の長髪男、マティと戦う ことに。序盤はヴェイロン、アルと共に撃ちまくって優勢だったが、
アルは顔面をつかまれて吹っ飛ばされ、ディーゴもフィフスとリアクトする（ディバイダーVC 9 シュトロゼック・リアクテッド　クロムグリード）
ディーゴは両うでに出現した巨大なマシンアームでヴェイロンの頭をつかみ、砕こうとする。
しかしヴェイロンは「このクソカスが…嫌なもんを思い出させやがって…」とほとんど効いてない様子で、ディ ーゴの腕を引きちぎり、逆にディーゴの頭を砕いた。

一方のアルもピンピンしており、「弾丸が効かねーかったりー相手ならこいつの出番だ」
（ディバイダー718　リアクテッド「プラズマケイン」）
「こいつで死んどけっ！プラズマディスチャージャー！」巨大な火球がマティを飲み込んだ。

戦闘が終わり、パンツ一丁で「参りました！」と土下座するマティ。アルは一応手加減したらしい。さっそく尋 問を始めるヴェイロンたち。なぜウィルスをばらまいたかというと、
優秀な感染者やゼロ因子保有者を「スポンサー」が探しているかららしい。そのスポンサーは誰だと問う前にマ ティの脳内の自壊ユニットが作動し、マティ死亡。
引き上げようとするヴェイロンだったが、アルはフィフスを拾っていくことにする。
フィフスを介抱しながら、アルはトーマについて「特務と凶鳥、両方に融通のきく子になってくれたら、なかな か面白そうなんだけどね」とつぶやいた。

To be continued Record20

some other stuff that was posted as spoilers, dunno if it's just info in nyantype or something else

Spoiler:

トーマとアイシスたちはスバルやギン姉たちと模擬戦開始（2ページで出番終了）

フェイトと眼帯子はヴァンデイン・コーポーションで専務のハーディス・ヴァンデインに事情聴取を行う。ヴァ ンデイン社が襲われたのはエクリプスウィルスを無断で培養していたりレプ
リカディバイダーの開発を行っていたためフッケバインに襲われたらしい。
それなりの処分をするというフェイト達に対し、専務はフッケバインの現れると思われる予測
地点を教えると取引。

その場所、第14無人世界移住調査地区に二人の男が現れる。その背後にフィフスという
少女が。男たちは地区にいた民間人にウィルスをバラまき始める。そこにミサイル弾頭が
着弾。現れたのはヴェイロンとアル。当然のように戦闘開始（ここで18回終了）

Wait, so is it chapter 19 or chapter 18 part 2?