Re:Zero - Character Discussion - Emilia

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

Emilia already stated that the expectation she had for Subaru was that he would treat her like a normal girl. She didn't want to be put on a pedestal (which he does) or be hated because she resembles Satella, she just wanted someone that would be her friend and treat her normally.

And that just proves how little she knows or even bothers to get to know Subaru. She doesn't really pay attention to him unless someone brings it up or he behaves in front of her. A man in love will go to any extent. She went full retard if she couldn't figure that out by now. But I'm sure she knows, but just doesn't care. She was only concerned about how she was perceived in court. Any man would snap when an entire crowd of people are doing nothing but insulting someone they love. It's a completely natural reaction.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

And that just proves how little she knows or even bothers to get to know Subaru. She doesn't really pay attention to him unless someone brings it up or he behaves in front of her. A man in love will go to any extent. She went full retard if she couldn't figure that out by now. But I'm sure she knows, but just doesn't care. She was only concerned about how she was perceived in court. Any man would snap when an entire crowd of people are doing nothing but insulting someone they love. It's a completely natural reaction.

She bothered to know him more, several times already: when Subaru was desperately trying to be efficient and cheerful during arc 2, no one batted an eye except Emilia who asked reasons for such behaviour, and even when he refused to tell her, she gave him her support, whereas Rem just couldn't compute what was wrong with him.

She went as far as making a contract with Crusche even though she had no obligation to restore subaru's mana gate whatsoever. Roswaal even commented how hard it has been for her to do that, and she brushed it off as a repayment for all the good deeds Subaru has done thus far.

Her very first reaction when Subaru was facing Julius was out of concern for his well being. This is even more obvious considering her reactions to the other candidates aloof comments. Even after their their argument, she made arrangements with Crusche so that Felix still goes on with Subaru's treatment.

And as I said before, She wanted to know why he fought Julius before talking about their promise (and considering what Puck said, this is akin to a crime for Spirit and Spirit users). That shows quite well that she has put her trust on Subaru on the line ahead of the principle of promise as a spirit user.
Subaru never bothered explaining aside of "getting back at Julius", and even nailed the point about how emilia could never understand him, which is obvious because he doesn't bother explaining anything.

And if you noticed her reaction, she was obviously hurt when Subaru was saying "it was all for her sake". And this is where their mutual trust turned into shambles because it was the same issue with Subaru: he didn't go as far as considering the person he has in front of him, that's why Emilia was obviously hurt when he didn't keep his promise, yet asked her to believe him (and remember that for THAT Emilia, only few days have passed since their first encounter).

Even after that gap between them, Subaru couldn't explain properly why he helped her. This is the very important point: Emilia cannot see herself in Subaru in the way how he acted thus far due to the decrepencies between his actions and their relationship thus far. The devotion Subaru had for Emilia is rather a devotion targeted to "Emilia" as a whole, as in the combined individual who saved him in arc 1 and all other points combined, which is obviously not what happened for the current Emilia.
It is as if he was acting like a lover with a girl who barely knows his name: there is a huge gap between both, and even with her efforts to understand him, Subaru did absolutely nothing to bridge such gap.

Rem was touched by Subaru's heroism on a fleeting moment and could witness his action on the sidelines. Emilia's situation is completely different and it isn't even surprising that she wouldn't moved the same way as Rem was. Not because she is "worst girl", "selfish" or whatever you name her: she is on the receiving end of Subaru's "illogical" course of actions for days without any explanation or even footing in term of relationship.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

She bothered to know him more, several times already: when Subaru was desperately trying to be efficient and cheerful during arc 2, no one batted an eye except Emilia who asked reasons for such behaviour, and even when he refused to tell her, she gave him her support, whereas Rem just couldn't compute what was wrong with him.

Rem didn't care about Subaru at that point, she was still leery of him having the stench of the witch. Or are you conveniently forgetting that? Not trying to diminish the scene, as it's one of my favorite scenes, but all she was doing was being a good friend.

She went as far as making a contract with Crusche even though she had no obligation to restore subaru's mana gate whatsoever. Roswaal even commented how hard it has been for her to do that, and she brushed it off as a repayment for all the good deeds Subaru has done thus far.

That's the least she can do, he literally put his life on the line to save the people of her domain. She's not a horrible person that'll throw him away.

Her very first reaction when Subaru was facing Julius was out of concern for his well being. This is even more obvious considering her reactions to the other candidates aloof comments. Even after their their argument, she made arrangements with Crusche so that Felix still goes on with Subaru's treatment.

And as I said before, She wanted to know why he fought Julius before talking about their promise (and considering what Puck said, this is akin to a crime for Spirit and Spirit users). That shows quite well that she has put her trust on Subaru on the line ahead of the principle of promise as a spirit user.
Subaru never bothered explaining aside of "getting back at Julius", and even nailed the point about how emilia could never understand him, which is obvious because he doesn't bother explaining anything.

And if you noticed her reaction, she was obviously hurt when Subaru was saying "it was all for her sake". And this is where their mutual trust turned into shambles because it was the same issue with Subaru: he didn't go as far as considering the person he has in front of him, that's why Emilia was obviously hurt when he didn't keep his promise, yet asked her to believe him (and remember that for THAT Emilia, only few days have passed since their first encounter).

Does she really need to have it explained to her? I mean seriously? the guy couldn't make it more obvious. I don't blame Subaru for snapping at her for being mad at him for sticking up for her. If a girl screamed at me cause I got mad for her sake, I wouldn't even know what to think. And it hasn't been a few days, it's been a few weeks.

If she's asking Subaru why he did that, then she never cared to try to understand his feelings for her.

Subaru has snapped before Rem multiple times this arc, and just as bad if not worst in this episode. And she never turned her back on him the way Emilia did, Emilia went "bye bitch" the moment shit went uncomfortable for her. Emilia quickness to leave Subaru without really trying, pushed Subaru's decent into madness.

Even after that gap between them, Subaru couldn't explain properly why he helped her. This is the very important point: Emilia cannot see herself in Subaru in the way how he acted thus far due to the decrepencies between his actions and their relationship thus far. The devotion Subaru had for Emilia is rather a devotion targeted to "Emilia" as a whole, as in the combined individual who saved him in arc 1 and all other points combined, which is obviously not what happened for the current Emilia.
It is as if he was acting like a lover with a girl who barely knows his name: there is a huge gap between both, and even with her efforts to understand him, Subaru did absolutely nothing to bridge such gap.

Rem was touched by Subaru's heroism on a fleeting moment and could witness his action on the sidelines. Emilia's situation is completely different and it isn't even surprising that she wouldn't moved the same way as Rem was. Not because she is "worst girl", "selfish" or whatever you name her: she is on the receiving end of Subaru's "illogical" course of actions for days without any explanation or even footing in term of relationship.

Yes, Subaru is at fault for not being explaining things properly, mostly due to the curse, but like I said before Rem still understood Subaru without him having to explain himself. She saw him as the person, she judged him by his actions, he not only saved her from the mabeast, but also for herself. What he did for her after the battle was what clenched the deal.

Subaru always put others before himself, this is a fact. You cannot argue this, if he cared more about himself, he would've ditched this shitstorm a long time ago. Rem realizes this, and that kindness is what won her over. Emilia should've noticed this too if she even cared to look. I was angry when she told Subaru that he was doing it for himself. I'm like you freaking serious? granted we as the audience see more, but still the guy has put his life on the line multiple times.

But I digress, agree to disagree, if it comes down to it.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Rem didn't care about Subaru at that point, she was still leery of him having the stench of the witch. Or are you conveniently forgetting that? Not trying to diminish the scene, as it's one of my favorite scenes, but all she was doing was being a good friend.

And that's exactly why I've put that example because you "conveniently forgot that". You keep claiming Emilia doesn't care about Subaru which is quite false. Rem should know Subaru's circumstances from Emilia when he was invited to Roswaal domain, but she still killed him in several occasions, exactly because she didn't know everything about him. I'm mirroring both situations on purpose here: the same way how Emilia could trust Subaru immediately while Rem couldn't, Rem could support Subaru during arc 3 due to her position while it is impossible for Emilia.

And no, a mere good friend wouldn't go as far as comforting someone without prying on their circumstances if they didn't care about the latter.

That's the least she can do, he literally put his life on the line to save the people of her domain. She's not a horrible person that'll throw him away.

Quite contradictory to how you painted her thus far.

Does she really need to have it explained to her? I mean seriously? the guy couldn't make it more obvious. I don't blame Subaru for snapping at her for being mad at him for sticking up for her. If a girl screamed at me cause I got mad for her sake, I wouldn't even know what to think. And it hasn't been a few days, it's been a few weeks.

You have the privielege of having the omniscience perspective of the audience. Emilia doesn't, hence why I mentioned how different her situation is compared to Rem.

Emilia never questioned Subaru's devotion up until that very point. She is aware of the danger regarding the election and the issues it involves such as discrimination due to her blood heritage. That's the very reason why she cannot compute why Subaru is that hellbent with her.
And no, it has been days, at most 1 week for them in that loop: Subaru and Rem helped the village on the fourth day just like usual, then we got 1-2 days of casual activities, then half a day spent to go to the capital then we got the election issue.

You can't call that "few weeks" at all, which makes her relationship with Subaru quite short.
This is why Emilia is completely puzzled by his behaviour because she needs to know the reason of that, especially that she didn't save Subaru's life spontaneously this time: she nursed him after he protected her against Elsa, but the fact she saved him from thugs doesn't count in that loop. Therefore, Emilia's situation is perfectly reasonable, even moreso after the person she trusted without fail (no suspicion towards him unlike Roswal, Rem and Ram) broke a promise.

If she's asking Subaru why he did that, then she never cared to try to understand his feelings for her.

She outright told him she can't understand, which means she tried but couldn't after all. Again, consider all the scenes involving Emilia in that given timeline:
-She was saved by someone who isn't supposed to know her at all.
-The said guy volunteers to work as a butler despite he could ask for riches and all
-Try VERY hard without telling why, on the verge of breaking
-Save a whole village despite being a mere human and nearly breaking his own mana gate

From Emilia's perspective, all Subaru's actions are definitely commendable, but there is absolutely nothing that would explain why he does that. Before their argument, Subaru never expressed his feelings nor explained himself at all, and she respected that. But after Julius incident which was life threatening for Subaru (either because Julius could potentially indict him for a death penalty or due to the abuse of his broken mana gate), it is no longer possible for her to let him do rash things without knowing why. Unlike Rem, she wasn't there most of the time, hence why her inability to understand Subaru is quite legit.

Subaru has snapped before Rem multiple times this arc, and just as bad if not worst in this episode. And she never turned her back on him the way Emilia did, Emilia went "bye bitch" the moment shit went uncomfortable for her. Emilia quickness to leave Subaru without really trying, pushed Subaru's decent into madness.

There is a very big difference here: Subaru is endangering his life for Emilia's sake, which is the core issue with her: she wants him to treat her normally, but Subaru ignores completely that. Worse: Subaru doesn't even care about what Emilia wants from him, hence why she couldn't accept his claim that it was "all for her sake". Rash kindness and selfness isn't all dandy when it leads to collateral damage. That's the very reason Emilia want to cut ties with him because it is perfectly reasonable to expect him to die if he keeps being rash.

Her expression during their confrontation is quite telling: she isn't happy in doing that, and I sincerely don't know how you can even call that "bye bitch".
This is even more obvious when Subaru finally found Emilia in ep17: she was more worried for the fact that he came back even though he is supposed to be treated by Fellis. So the whole point of leaving Subaru there was for his own good.

Yes, Subaru is at fault for not being explaining things properly, mostly due to the curse, but like I said before Rem still understood Subaru without him having to explain himself. She saw him as the person, she judged him by his actions, he not only saved her from the mabeast, but also for herself. What he did for her after the battle was what clenched the deal.

And that's why you cannot compare Emilia and Rem at all because circumstances aren't the same at all. Rem witnessed first hand how Subaru acted, even on the verge of dying, which was inspiring. Emilia at most saw Subaru fighting Elsa, which was vastly different when you compare both. The gap between both is so large that it can't even be compared.

Subaru always put others before himself, this is a fact. You cannot argue this, if he cared more about himself, he would've ditched this shitstorm a long time ago.

I never stated otherwise, and this is exactly because of that point that Emilia wanted to discuss with him. The fact he care for others is nice, but to the point of nearly dying several times? At some point, you cannot call that courage or heroism, but recklessness. It is even more natural for her since she doesn't know he can reset. You also have to consider the fact that Emilia wanted him to treat equally, which makes sense with her own wish to impose equality in the current kingdom.

Rem realizes this, and that kindness is what won her over. Emilia should've noticed this too if she even cared to look. I was angry when she told Subaru that he was doing it for himself. I'm like you freaking serious? granted we as the audience see more, but still the guy has put his life on the line multiple times.

There have been several instances where Emilia noted Subaru's actions, and that was in all the timelines thus far, so no, she cared about him right after they were done with Elsa. If she didn't care about him, there is no way scenes like Subaru resting on her lap would ever happen and so forth.

Finally, Emilia is actually right regarding this point: again, Subaru hardly tells her anything. Rem is the only one who listen to Subaru when the latter finally explains he wants to save her the same way she saved him. But that doesn't count for her, exactly because it was impossible for her to know that.

I honestly don't care about shipping wars and whatnot, but it just baffles me that some people have to create a fallacious narrative to prove "one girl is better than another".

[DemonneoPT]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I honestly don't care about shipping wars and whatnot, but it just baffles me that some people have to create a fallacious narrative to prove "one girl is better than another".

Finally! Nice post by the way!! I agree Rem has being amazing in the last episodes (i would even say she indeed won the title for the best girl so far), but hating Emilia just because the MC wants her instead of Rem is a little bit ludicrous. Shipping wars clouds people's vision about certain things unfortunately!

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I honestly don't care about shipping wars and whatnot, but it just baffles me that some people have to create a fallacious narrative to prove "one girl is better than another".

All brownies for you, Klash. I'm also tired of that kind of "hate-filled dirty method" of doing shipping wars.

[Klashikari]

Just to make my point straight: I won't hide I have a preference for Emilia, but that doesn't mean I have anything against Rem. To the contrary, Rem is pretty much the most active character in Re:Zero franchise that isn't Subaru and things would have been bleak if it wasn't for her support. They are pretty much 2 very likeable characters, no question about that.

Hell, if Subaru fell for her, I wouldn't bat an eye. That would simply work too considering Rem's strong points lately. Emphasis on that last word because love isn't always a matter of comparison, but also it also involves time, regardless of the "first girl/guy wins" or "longest relationship" trope.
It is just the same in reality: some people crush will affect them so hard it won't change their mind even if other people believe they are a better match with someone else. Likewise, feelings can change over time as well.

However, I just cannot agree with the sentiment of some people (be it AS or other social places like twitter) where that dissatisfaction regarding a certain pairing means the said character didn't deserve it and/or is worse than "best waifu/husbando" thing. Hell, we don't know if Emilia has feelings for Subaru or not, beside the fact she does care about him. That basically means there isn't really any confirmed "ship" for Subaru and Emilia (and no, I don't want any spoiler, thank you very much).

Furthermore, while it is evident that Emilia's screentime is quite minimal compared to Rem, I don't see why this is a factor either when it comes to Subaru's feelings (which shouldn't be affected by the audience). Again, love at first sight, specific actions or traits etc can be much more powerful given certain situations, and Subaru has shown a lot of times his adoration for Emilia quite early in the game.
Pretty much how Rem describes Subaru as his reason to die (as in, her time finally resumed), Subaru described Emilia as his savior even though she had no reason to help him considering the crisis at hand with the pendant. For someone who considers himself like a useless and idle neet, being saved this way was pretty much beyond awe inspiring for him, and she apparently fits his fetishes as well.

Beyond people preference, I think it is best to trust an author when it comes about romance, even if there are series where author's preference could take precedence over "natural relationship" as some people say. It doesn't mean we should have a blind faith whatsoever, but if the narrative tread that subject properly, then it is all good.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

And that's exactly why I've put that example because you "conveniently forgot that". You keep claiming Emilia doesn't care about Subaru which is quite false. Rem should know Subaru's circumstances from Emilia when he was invited to Roswaal domain, but she still killed him in several occasions, exactly because she didn't know everything about him. I'm mirroring both situations on purpose here: the same way how Emilia could trust Subaru immediately while Rem couldn't, Rem could support Subaru during arc 3 due to her position while it is impossible for Emilia.

And no, a mere good friend wouldn't go as far as comforting someone without prying on their circumstances if they didn't care about the latter.

I do that for my friends, and I have friends that do that for me, do you not have any friends that just comforts you when you're sad?

Quite contradictory to how you painted her thus far.

I've always said she was nice, I've said that is the extent of her character. She's the most 2 dimensional character so far. That her entire character thus far can be summed up in 1 sentence.

You have the privielege of having the omniscience perspective of the audience. Emilia doesn't, hence why I mentioned how different her situation is compared to Rem.

Emilia never questioned Subaru's devotion up until that very point. She is aware of the danger regarding the election and the issues it involves such as discrimination due to her blood heritage. That's the very reason why she cannot compute why Subaru is that hellbent with her.
And no, it has been days, at most 1 week for them in that loop: Subaru and Rem helped the village on the fourth day just like usual, then we got 1-2 days of casual activities, then half a day spent to go to the capital then we got the election issue.

You can't call that "few weeks" at all, which makes her relationship with Subaru quite short.

Pretty Sure Arc 2 took like 2 weeks, from the moment he woke up to the moment he dies to loop back again, and he was unconscious for a few days before the battle against the Mabeast. And after arc 2, it's an untold amount of time from then to when they travel to the Capital. And it takes like what 3 days if taken the short route from the mansion to the capital? And then 2 to 3 days till the elections ceremony.

So yes, it was a few weeks.

This is why Emilia is completely puzzled by his behaviour because she needs to know the reason of that, especially that she didn't save Subaru's life spontaneously this time: she nursed him after he protected her against Elsa, but the fact she saved him from thugs doesn't count in that loop. Therefore, Emilia's situation is perfectly reasonable, even moreso after the person she trusted without fail (no suspicion towards him unlike Roswal, Rem and Ram) broke a promise.
She outright told him she can't understand, which means she tried but couldn't after all. Again, consider all the scenes involving Emilia in that given timeline:
-She was saved by someone who isn't supposed to know her at all.
-The said guy volunteers to work as a butler despite he could ask for riches and all
-Try VERY hard without telling why, on the verge of breaking
-Save a whole village despite being a mere human and nearly breaking his own mana gate

From Emilia's perspective, all Subaru's actions are definitely commendable, but there is absolutely nothing that would explain why he does that. Before their argument, Subaru never expressed his feelings nor explained himself at all, and she respected that. But after Julius incident which was life threatening for Subaru (either because Julius could potentially indict him for a death penalty or due to the abuse of his broken mana gate), it is no longer possible for her to let him do rash things without knowing why. Unlike Rem, she wasn't there most of the time, hence why her inability to understand Subaru is quite legit.

The dude has literally been trying to get in her panties since forever, he wasn't cryptic about it. No it's not legit. If she couldn't figure that out, I don't know what to say.

There is a very big difference here: Subaru is endangering his life for Emilia's sake, which is the core issue with her: she wants him to treat her normally, but Subaru ignores completely that. Worse: Subaru doesn't even care about what Emilia wants from him, hence why she couldn't accept his claim that it was "all for her sake". Rash kindness and selfness isn't all dandy when it leads to collateral damage. That's the very reason Emilia want to cut ties with him because it is perfectly reasonable to expect him to die if he keeps being rash.

Her expression during their confrontation is quite telling: she isn't happy in doing that, and I sincerely don't know how you can even call that "bye bitch".

How hard is it to figure out that he loves her? Can't she put 1 and 2 together?

She literally went emotionally blank when he started yelling at her. Like she didn't want to put up with it anymore. That's why I said she went "bye bitch"

If only she tried, if she didn't turn her back on him, if she just stayed and kept and talking to him, Subaru wouldn't end up in the state that he was in. Rem kept pushing, when she could've easily walked away the same way Emilia did.

This is even more obvious when Subaru finally found Emilia in ep17: she was more worried for the fact that he came back even though he is supposed to be treated by Fellis. So the whole point of leaving Subaru there was for his own good.
And that's why you cannot compare Emilia and Rem at all because circumstances aren't the same at all. Rem witnessed first hand how Subaru acted, even on the verge of dying, which was inspiring. Emilia at most saw Subaru fighting Elsa, which was vastly different when you compare both. The gap between both is so large that it can't even be compared.

We don't know much about what goes on in Emilia's head, she's highly underdeveloped.

I never stated otherwise, and this is exactly because of that point that Emilia wanted to discuss with him. The fact he care for others is nice, but to the point of nearly dying several times? At some point, you cannot call that courage or heroism, but recklessness. It is even more natural for her since she doesn't know he can reset. You also have to consider the fact that Emilia wanted him to treat equally, which makes sense with her own wish to impose equality in the current kingdom.
There have been several instances where Emilia noted Subaru's actions, and that was in all the timelines thus far, so no, she cared about him right after they were done with Elsa. If she didn't care about him, there is no way scenes like Subaru resting on her lap would ever happen and so forth.

Finally, Emilia is actually right regarding this point: again, Subaru hardly tells her anything. Rem is the only one who listen to Subaru when the latter finally explains he wants to save her the same way she saved him. But that doesn't count for her, exactly because it was impossible for her to know that.

I honestly don't care about shipping wars and whatnot, but it just baffles me that some people have to create a fallacious narrative to prove "one girl is better than another".

She's taking it all completely wrong, she thinks that he's treating her special because of her position/race/association, when that has nothing to do with it. He's treating her special because he's in love with her. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But I know I sound like a broken record, how can she not know this?

You're right, Emilia didn't spend much time with Subaru, she doesn't know Subaru as well as Rem, Subaru doesn't know Emilia at all as well. Meaning, Emilia only cares about Subaru because she's a nice person.

I still don't get Subaru's extreme attachment to Emilia, I really don't. They barely spent any time together, they really don't know each other all that well. Subaru's attachment is extremely superficial.

[Incest Emblem]

I am rather skeptical of the idea that Emilia is nice, actually. Her contract with Puck seems to include a clause that says, "If I die, destroy the world." This is the sort of thing that makes me pause and wonder just what she wants.

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by Incest Emblem

I am rather skeptical of the idea that Emilia is nice, actually. Her contract with Puck seems to include a clause that says, "If I die, destroy the world." This is the sort of thing that makes me pause and wonder just what she wants.

I'm not sure that's something she had any say over, tho. We'll have to wait and see, anyway.

[Flames]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

I do that for my friends, and I have friends that do that for me, do you not have any friends that just comforts you when you're sad?



I've always said she was nice, I've said that is the extent of her character. She's the most 2 dimensional character so far. That her entire character thus far can be summed up in 1 sentence.



Pretty Sure Arc 2 took like 2 weeks, from the moment he woke up to the moment he dies to loop back again, and he was unconscious for a few days before the battle against the Mabeast. And after arc 2, it's an untold amount of time from then to when they travel to the Capital. And it takes like what 3 days if taken the short route from the mansion to the capital? And then 2 to 3 days till the elections ceremony.

So yes, it was a few weeks.



The dude has literally been trying to get in her panties since forever, he wasn't cryptic about it. No it's not legit. If she couldn't figure that out, I don't know what to say.



How hard is it to figure out that he loves her? Can't she put 1 and 2 together?

She literally went emotionally blank when he started yelling at her. Like she didn't want to put up with it anymore. That's why I said she went "bye bitch"

If only she tried, if she didn't turn her back on him, if she just stayed and kept and talking to him, Subaru wouldn't end up in the state that he was in. Rem kept pushing, when she could've easily walked away the same way Emilia did.



We don't know much about what goes on in Emilia's head, she's highly underdeveloped.



She's taking it all completely wrong, she thinks that he's treating her special because of her position/race/association, when that has nothing to do with it. He's treating her special because he's in love with her. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But I know I sound like a broken record, how can she not know this?

You're right, Emilia didn't spend much time with Subaru, she doesn't know Subaru as well as Rem, Subaru doesn't know Emilia at all as well. Meaning, Emilia only cares about Subaru because she's a nice person.

I still don't get Subaru's extreme attachment to Emilia, I really don't. They barely spent any time together, they really don't know each other all that well. Subaru's attachment is extremely superficial.

I think it's exactly because that Subaru knows that she is a very nice person that he loves her. I would say the impression she left on him when she first saved him from the thugs when he first came to their world was probably a start of an attraction toward her. Especially, when he realizes that her wasting time to save him was hindering an important task that she was doing. Her healing from when he got his stomach cut open by Elza and consoling him when he started to have a breakdown in the mansion after dying so much only enforce that impression he has of her even more. Her being a tough situation in regards to the ruler stuff probably only enforce his desire to want to protect her more.

Rem may have done more for Subaru because she has more screen-time then Emilia but the impression that Emilia left on Subaru has bigger effect on him then Rem. That doesn't negate the fact he does care about Rem but more of who was first in trying to help him when he first started to deal with his pain.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

I do that for my friends, and I have friends that do that for me, do you not have any friends that just comforts you when you're sad?

I never met a friend I made within few days that would comfort me this way. Even so, that pretty much means she considers Subaru as her friend at the very least, and not a disposable pawn. So that again proves my point she cares about him, instead of your pretense that she would use him or something.

I've always said she was nice, I've said that is the extent of her character. She's the most 2 dimensional character so far. That her entire character thus far can be summed up in 1 sentence.

Rem could also be summed up by 1 sentence as she is devoted to Subaru and nothing else, which is quite frankly exaggerated to do such. Same goes for Emilia: screentime and lack of changes don't immediately make a character bland whatsoever, otherwise we can just say everyone except Rem is not likable (including savior class characters like Reinhardt).
For someone who don't have much characterization, Emilia was consistently shown as someone who care about others and have ambition of equality even if it means her reputation is put to the drain.
For someone you consider a "plot device", she has actually more stuff than that.

Pretty Sure Arc 2 took like 2 weeks, from the moment he woke up to the moment he dies to loop back again, and he was unconscious for a few days before the battle against the Mabeast. And after arc 2, it's an untold amount of time from then to when they travel to the Capital. And it takes like what 3 days if taken the short route from the mansion to the capital? And then 2 to 3 days till the elections ceremony.

So yes, it was a few weeks.

Subaru himself said it took only half a day to reach the capital hence why he was puzzled why Rem took a route that would need 2-3 days.
There wasn't any indication regarding the time he needed to recover from his fight with the demons, and even so, that shouldn't even factor in their relationship because he was unconscious. No matter how long he is bed ridden, that doesn't make him magically closer to anyone.

The dude has literally been trying to get in her panties since forever, he wasn't cryptic about it. No it's not legit. If she couldn't figure that out, I don't know what to say.

Most words used by Subaru were either otaku stuff that doesn't make sense to them, or grandeur that sounds more like adoration than really love.
There isn't any instance where his love was made cut clean whatsoever in front of Emilia herself.

She literally went emotionally blank when he started yelling at her. Like she didn't want to put up with it anymore. That's why I said she went "bye bitch"

Absolutely not, and that's obvious with what she said about "Subaru's Emilia". She can no longer see herself in Subaru because what he says and does doesn't match with the current situation between both of them. Again, there is a glaring decrepency between both in term of relationship that made Emilia completely lost.

If only she tried, if she didn't turn her back on him, if she just stayed and kept and talking to him, Subaru wouldn't end up in the state that he was in. Rem kept pushing, when she could've easily walked away the same way Emilia did.

How can we be sure Subaru won't act like the reckless hero he believes he is? Do you really think his mindset around Julius' duel was the proper one?
As much as it hurt Subaru, that was a necessary slap in the face because he doesn't realize his own place, that's why he only figured out after so long. If he was self aware of his own weakness, he wouldn't have failed with Crusche and co.

We don't know much about what goes on in Emilia's head, she's highly underdeveloped.

Then pray tell why you can claim she is selfish and doesn't care about him when you backpedal in such fashion?

She's taking it all completely wrong, she thinks that he's treating her special because of her position/race/association, when that has nothing to do with it. He's treating her special because he's in love with her. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But I know I sound like a broken record, how can she not know this?

Already answered above: there is absolutely no evidence of declaration of love from him to her in a serious fashion. Again, the situation involves 2 persons who barely know each other for mere days.

I still don't get Subaru's extreme attachment to Emilia, I really don't. They barely spent any time together, they really don't know each other all that well. Subaru's attachment is extremely superficial.

Because Subaru realizes how far Emilia can do for someone she doesn't know after realizing how important the dragon crest is. He even noted that in a loop where he doesn't meet her early, she still helps the apple vendor's daughter.
The first arc interactions were plenty obvious regarding that point as well as their early interactions in arc 2. You are just considering your own preference instead of considering Subaru's perspective there. Kindness towards him isn't the only factor.

Like flames said, Subaru still cares about Rem, but the impact of Emilia's actions and behaviour affected him way more. Simple as that.

Originally Posted by Incest Emblem

I am rather skeptical of the idea that Emilia is nice, actually. Her contract with Puck seems to include a clause that says, "If I die, destroy the world." This is the sort of thing that makes me pause and wonder just what she wants.

Considering what Puck said in this episode, it is more like his own decision considering he can't imagine a world without her. In fact, it is possible that the contract forbid him to destroy the world. Another possibility is that the contract allow him freedom to do whatever he wants should she die.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I never met a friend I made within few days that would comfort me this way. Even so, that pretty much means she considers Subaru as her friend at the very least, and not a disposable pawn. So that again proves my point she cares about him, instead of your pretense that she would use him or something.
Rem could also be summed up by 1 sentence as she is devoted to Subaru and nothing else, which is quite frankly exaggerated to do such. Same goes for Emilia: screentime and lack of changes don't immediately make a character bland whatsoever, otherwise we can just say everyone except Rem is not likable (including savior class characters like Reinhardt).

Now you're just undercutting Rem for the sake of it. It does make a character bland when we know next to nothing about them. Again, she only cares for him, because she's a nice person.

For someone who don't have much characterization, Emilia was consistently shown as someone who care about others and have ambition of equality even if it means her reputation is put to the drain.

It's because she's naive and doesn't have the balls to stand up for herself. Standing there and taking abuse is not a good quality.

For someone you consider a "plot device", she has actually more stuff than that.
Subaru himself said it took only half a day to reach the capital hence why he was puzzled why Rem took a route that would need 2-3 days.

There wasn't any indication regarding the time he needed to recover from his fight with the demons, and even so, that shouldn't even factor in their relationship because he was unconscious. No matter how long he is bed ridden, that doesn't make him magically closer to anyone.

What's this other stuff, do enlighten me, what's her other quality other than being nice?

And it's not just him being unconscious, he spent a great deal of time in most of the time working as a butler. There's roughly a 2 week time span from his respawn point to when shit hits the fan.

Most words used by Subaru were either otaku stuff that doesn't make sense to them, or grandeur that sounds more like adoration than really love.
There isn't any instance where his love was made cut clean whatsoever in front of Emilia herself.
Absolutely not, and that's obvious with what she said about "Subaru's Emilia". She can no longer see herself in Subaru because what he says and does doesn't match with the current situation between both of them. Again, there is a glaring decrepency between both in term of relationship that made Emilia completely lost.
How can we be sure Subaru won't act like the reckless hero he believes he is? Do you really think his mindset around Julius' duel was the proper one?
As much as it hurt Subaru, that was a necessary slap in the face because he doesn't realize his own place, that's why he only figured out after so long. If he was self aware of his own weakness, he wouldn't have failed with Crusche and co.
Then pray tell why you can claim she is selfish and doesn't care about him when you backpedal in such fashion?
Already answered above: there is absolutely no evidence of declaration of love from him to her in a serious fashion. Again, the situation involves 2 persons who barely know each other for mere days.

Oh I dunno, constantly asking for dates and telling them how pretty they are, is a pretty big freaking hint.

Because Subaru realizes how far Emilia can do for someone she doesn't know after realizing how important the dragon crest is. He even noted that in a loop where he doesn't meet her early, she still helps the apple vendor's daughter.
The first arc interactions were plenty obvious regarding that point as well as their early interactions in arc 2. You are just considering your own preference instead of considering Subaru's perspective there. Kindness towards him isn't the only factor.

Like flames said, Subaru still cares about Rem, but the impact of Emilia's actions and behaviour affected him way more. Simple as that.

Helping a lost little girl, oh my, so selfless! so overwhelmingly amazing! let me shed my crocodile tear over how impactful that is. Reinhardt helped him out way more and was way kinder to him, he should've been Subaru's first love.

In the end, we might as well agree to disagree. We probably won't see eye to eye on the matter being on opposite ends of the spectrum.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Now you're just undercutting Rem for the sake of it. It does make a character bland when we know next to nothing about them. Again, she only cares for him, because she's a nice person.

I used a deliberately exaggerated example with Rem exactly to illustrate how silly it is. Saying you can describe a character with a single line is pretty petty because that doesn't reflect their respective merits whatsoever. That's the very reason I said "which is quite frankly exaggerated to do such", because you can apply to other characters in any series with that kind of reasoning.

It's because she's naive and doesn't have the balls to stand up for herself. Standing there and taking abuse is not a good quality.

That's not how politics work, especially for people with a screwed heritage like Emilia. Regardless how good Subaru's intentions were, he doesn't have any clue how the public sees Emilia at all, so calling out people because of her bloodline was not the smartest thing to do. Furthermore, there is absolutely no reason to go against such criticism if you can't back your words with anything else, that's why Subaru couldn't argue any longer when the apple vendor outright told him about the prejudice against half elves. Trying a bravado here has no direct benefit whatsoever.
And it isn't like Emilia was happy to be discriminated this way, but showing balls there? hardly a good choice.

In fact, I don't see how you can even call her naive at this point: she immediately figured out it would go dicey if Subaru follows her during that peculiar situation by outright stating "you won't like that".

What's this other stuff, do enlighten me, what's her other quality other than being nice?

Isn't that quality enough to like someone? But sure: Emilia is responsible considering she strives for equality which is something that cannot be taken lightly because of her bloodline. Therefore, that also assumes she has courage and actual patience to deal with people not trusting half elves whatsoever.

She also has a good composure considering she could deal with Elsa without doing anything rash like going all out with Puck. She could easily ignore the likes of Subaru who was a stranger to her etc and bomb everything, but didn't.

She also has a good intuition and understanding when it comes to people, that's why she trusted Subaru quite early but also figured out that allowing him to be in the castle would lead to a huge backlash to him. That requires actual understanding of politics, etiquette and prediction to what people might do.
And that part also has shown consideration from her when it comes to Subaru because the one thing she didn't want him to do was to push himself again despite he isn't in top shape whatsoever. Being merely nice would mean to indulge other people whims so not to frustrate them whatsoever. Being considerate involves more than being nice: it requires actual awareness of the situation and to say "no" when it is needed.

That's more than just being nice. But then again, what's the problem of being "just" nice? Is that a sin for someone to like a person who is nice?
I would also argue that Rem is "just" nice with such criteria (along with a certain guilt regarding Ram), but I personally think she is also much more than that.

And it's not just him being unconscious, he spent a great deal of time in most of the time working as a butler. There's roughly a 2 week time span from his respawn point to when shit hits the fan.

Let's assume it is 2 weeks for a moment. I'd argue it is still awfully short to have someone behind your back and putting their life on the line several times in a row. The keyword again is "perspective".

Oh I dunno, constantly asking for dates and telling them how pretty they are, is a pretty big freaking hint.

Remember one fundamental issue: the word "date" doesn't exist in that setup. Emilia had to ask Subaru the definition of it and Subaru merely described as "Going together, seeing the same things, eating the same things, doing the same things and sharing the same memories". This kind of stuff can be done with friends. It doesn't have any romantic weight when explained this way. And they only did once in that loop.

Also, flirting and confessing are 2 different things. Again, there is no single moment where he was shown serious when he was flirting with her. Remember how Emilia was often laughing when Subaru was going all otaku mode? That illustrates how she sees his antics as part of his personality.
Acting like a charmer doesn't always drive the point accross, especially in a narrative like that.

Helping a lost little girl, oh my, so selfless! so overwhelmingly amazing! let me shed my crocodile tear over how impactful that is. Reinhardt helped him out way more and was way kinder to him, he should've been Subaru's first love.

Correction: she saved a little girl even though time wasn't on her side regarding the crest theft, which could potentially screws her goal to lead the country.
And as much as I also believe Reinhardt is a nice guy (or maybe too much), that's absolutely not the point here, especially the context is arguably different.

If you want to argue any further, I have no issue whatsoever. But please drop the passive aggressive stance, this is childish and toxic for a proper discussion.

[Asuras]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

It does make a character bland when we know next to nothing about them.

I think you're confusing "blandness" with "lack of information", which was Klashikari's point I think. A character that just showed up isn't inherently bland, merely undescribed. The same would presumably go for characters who haven't had as much screen time as others.

[Dengar]

Emilia feels nothing for Subaru? But what about all the casual flirting? What about all the unnecessary caring for him? What about all the worrying she does for him? What about her disappointment at his behavior? 'She feels nothing for him' my ass.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I used a deliberately exaggerated example with Rem exactly to illustrate how silly it is. Saying you can describe a character with a single line is pretty petty because that doesn't reflect their respective merits whatsoever. That's the very reason I said "which is quite frankly exaggerated to do such", because you can apply to other characters in any series with that kind of reasoning.

Just as you don't expect Emilia to not understand Subaru in the short amount of time they spent together, how do you expect me as the viewer who spent even a lesser amount of time, to care about her?

That's not how politics work, especially for people with a screwed heritage like Emilia. Regardless how good Subaru's intentions were, he doesn't have any clue how the public sees Emilia at all, so calling out people because of her bloodline was not the smartest thing to do. Furthermore, there is absolutely no reason to go against such criticism if you can't back your words with anything else, that's why Subaru couldn't argue any longer when the apple vendor outright told him about the prejudice against half elves. Trying a bravado here has no direct benefit whatsoever.
And it isn't like Emilia was happy to be discriminated this way, but showing balls there? hardly a good choice.

A ruler needs to have a spine, being a monarch isn't about who can hug the most kittens. If she doesn't have the nerve to stand up for herself, how can anyone respect her as a ruler? She's showing them that she's weak and pathetic and nothing more than a pushover. A monarch needs to be strong and domineering.

In fact, I don't see how you can even call her naive at this point: she immediately figured out it would go dicey if Subaru follows her during that peculiar situation by outright stating "you won't like that".
Isn't that quality enough to like someone? But sure: Emilia is responsible considering she strives for equality which is something that cannot be taken lightly because of her bloodline. Therefore, that also assumes she has courage and actual patience to deal with people not trusting half elves whatsoever.

You can interpret it that way, but I see more that she knows that he can let his emotions get the better of him and it'll lead to nothing more than embarrassing her. It was like this to me, because she was all "he's nothing to me, just some dude I know." to try and save face.

She also has a good composure considering she could deal with Elsa without doing anything rash like going all out with Puck. She could easily ignore the likes of Subaru who was a stranger to her etc and bomb everything, but didn't.

Because she can't, you saw how fast she got exhausted. And puck is on a timer. We already know she's not a bad person, so she's not going to go kill random people to get what she wants.

She also has a good intuition and understanding when it comes to people, that's why she trusted Subaru quite early but also figured out that allowing him to be in the castle would lead to a huge backlash to him. That requires actual understanding of politics, etiquette and prediction to what people might do.

Feel free to see it that way, I still see her as naive.

And that part also has shown consideration from her when it comes to Subaru because the one thing she didn't want him to do was to push himself again despite he isn't in top shape whatsoever. Being merely nice would mean to indulge other people whims so not to frustrate them whatsoever. Being considerate involves more than being nice: it requires actual awareness of the situation and to say "no" when it is needed.

"Nice", "kind", "considerate" its all the same. When you're being considerate, people automatically call you a "nice person" or a "kind person".

That's more than just being nice. But then again, what's the problem of being "just" nice? Is that a sin for someone to like a person who is nice?
I would also argue that Rem is "just" nice with such criteria (along with a certain guilt regarding Ram), but I personally think she is also much more than that.
Let's assume it is 2 weeks for a moment. I'd argue it is still awfully short to have someone behind your back and putting their life on the line several times in a row. The keyword again is "perspective".
Remember one fundamental issue: the word "date" doesn't exist in that setup. Emilia had to ask Subaru the definition of it and Subaru merely described as "Going together, seeing the same things, eating the same things, doing the same things and sharing the same memories". This kind of stuff can be done with friends. It doesn't have any romantic weight when explained this way. And they only did once in that loop.

You're forgetting that Rem can sense the Witches stench, which Subaru exudes, and Rem has an insane level of hate towards ANYTHING related to the witch. She had no reason to trust anyone that has is seemingly apart of the witch in some fashion.

I'm more than certain he got the point across as to what a date was. His explanation was flimsy, but at the end of his exhausting explanation, she finally got it and accepted it.

Also, flirting and confessing are 2 different things. Again, there is no single moment where he was shown serious when he was flirting with her. Remember how Emilia was often laughing when Subaru was going all otaku mode? That illustrates how she sees his antics as part of his personality.
Acting like a charmer doesn't always drive the point accross, especially in a narrative like that.

He was only that way towards her and no one, there's nothing to suggest otherwise.

Correction: she saved a little girl even though time wasn't on her side regarding the crest theft, which could potentially screws her goal to lead the country.
And as much as I also believe Reinhardt is a nice guy (or maybe too much), that's absolutely not the point here, especially the context is arguably different.

If you want to argue any further, I have no issue whatsoever. But please drop the passive aggressive stance, this is childish and toxic for a proper discussion.

He doesn't know the importance of the item it was never ever explained to him, so it has no weight to Subaru whatsoever, all he saw was a kind girl that took the time to help out a little girl. That's it.

I'm a native new yorker, I just have an aggressive tone, it's just how I am. Nature and all that shit, don't mean anything with it.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Just as you don't expect Emilia to not understand Subaru in the short amount of time they spent together, how do you expect me as the viewer who spent even a lesser amount of time, to care about her?

Except it wasn't the initial subject. That part of the discussion was about the relevancy of her character and how you believe describing a character with 1 line is a good argument to dismiss a character.
The fact you don't care about her is your own preference and that's about it.

A ruler needs to have a spine, being a monarch isn't about who can hug the most kittens. If she doesn't have the nerve to stand up for herself, how can anyone respect her as a ruler? She's showing them that she's weak and pathetic and nothing more than a pushover. A monarch needs to be strong and domineering.

A monarch cannot earn any respect either by not proving themselves either first. She is supposed to be seen as an incarnation of Satella, the witch that brought calamity on the world. As such, there is no way they would trust her with merely a bravado. Actions are necessary to demonstrate clearly she isn't just a "half elf", and just barking for the fact "I'm not Satella" and the likes won't work, which was pretty much the point the apple vendor said to Subaru, even when he brought the fact she could actually be a great individual and so forth.

You can interpret it that way, but I see more that she knows that he can let his emotions get the better of him and it'll lead to nothing more than embarrassing her. It was like this to me, because she was all "he's nothing to me, just some dude I know." to try and save face.

If she wanted to save face, she would have punished Subaru on the spot or let Subaru take the brunt of Julius' duel. It is actually worse for her because that means she let someone who wasn't her attendant/knight to enter the castle but under her name still.
She was outright seen by the other candidates and knights that she wanted to stop that duel even though it was merely a mock battle and that it was Subaru at fault here.

So no, she clearly was prioritizing his well being there.

Because she can't, you saw how fast she got exhausted. And puck is on a timer. We already know she's not a bad person, so she's not going to go kill random people to get what she wants.

Of course she can if she does that right from the get go when Puck was still around. The point of my remark is that she consider the situation at hand instead of using magic like crazy.

"Nice", "kind", "considerate" its all the same. When you're being considerate, people automatically call you a "nice person" or a "kind person".

And the point is? Being able to call someone with a single word doesn't really prove much. That's like saying "well, Rem is nice" and be done with it, which is quite false to begin with.

Then again, what's wrong with being nice? That's just like Asuras said: you are confusing "bland" and "lack of information". You don't know much about her, hence why you don't care much about her. That's fair, but I believe it is quite silly to complain "being just nice" is a fault when it comes to appreciation for a character, be it the audience or another character in the series.

You're forgetting that Rem can sense the Witches stench, which Subaru exudes, and Rem has an insane level of hate towards ANYTHING related to the witch. She had no reason to trust anyone that has is seemingly apart of the witch in some fashion.

I said perspective for a reason, right?
In Rem's case, his actions and his open comment regarding his stench were enough to prove he has nothing to do with the witch. It isn't like the hatred itself was towards him, but towards a specific group. The moment she realizes he isn't part of that cult, she has no reason to hate him whatsoever.

In Emilia's case, there is still absolutely nothing that would warrant someone who barely know her for few days/weeks to help her to the point of self destruction. We are talking about someone who was always persecuted for being an half elf and who encountered a guy who never interacted with her prior elsa's incident and went as far as nearly dying several times right from the get go.
This is quite alarming when the said guy never tells her his reasons and go worse over time: she knows she is the cause of his behaviour but doesn't understand the reason for it.

I'm more than certain he got the point across as to what a date was. His explanation was flimsy, but at the end of his exhausting explanation, she finally got it and accepted it.
He was only that way towards her and no one, there's nothing to suggest otherwise.

And yet, she didn't react as if it was a confession or anything. Again, from a perspective of someone who doesn't know what a date is, it has no romance weight whatsoever. Not only you can do all of these actions with friends as well, but Subaru didn't express his feelings clearly as he was never once serious when he talked to Emilia regarding that specific subject.

He doesn't know the importance of the item it was never ever explained to him, so it has no weight to Subaru whatsoever, all he saw was a kind girl that took the time to help out a little girl. That's it.

It is still a factor considering she wouldn't just help someone at random. It is something she does naturally even when she should be pressed on other stuff.

And again, there is nothing wrong for someone to be attracted by such kind of kindness.

I'm a native new yorker, I just have an aggressive tone, it's just how I am. Nature and all that shit, don't mean anything with it.

Then reconsider your attitude. I'm not here to take the brunt of your aggressive tone whatsoever.

[Dengar]

This discussion is getting rather hard to read. Walls of text quoting other walls of text.

I'm not even sure what either side's stance is anymore. Is one side saying she is a shitty terrible person who doesn't care about anyone other than herself? Or are they just saying they don't know her that very well? It's hard to tell anymore.

[Klashikari]

That's why I had to resort to multiple quotes. The subject has split into several points such as 1) bland character 2) doesn't understand Subaru's reasons 3) does not care about subaru 4) no idea why subaru would like her.