Clannad Game Translation Project

[Xcandescent]

Originally Posted by Polarem

Good news: It looks like we don't need to modify the compiler (no need to learn OCaml!). Updating its headers should be enough -- assign ID numbers for our new functions, and insert a small wrapper to call rlbabel.dll (passing the relevant ID and data) instead of RealLive's native functions. (http://subversion.assembla.com/svn/c...dev/trunk/lib/rlBabel.kh)

The rlBabel source code is at http://subversion.assembla.com/svn/c...rlBabel/trunk/. The ID numbers from rlBabel.kh are mapped to enums in textout.h and select.h; the DLL entrypoint of interest is reallive_dll_func_call() in rlbabel.cpp, which accepts 5 arguments -- the 1st is the ID number, the rest are for us to decide.

reallive_dll_func_call() passes the arguments to TextoutCall() to handle main text, or SelectCall() to handle selections. So, we want to implement our own ObjOfTextCall() and Select_SCall(). The former is easier, I think.

To be clear: rlBabel.dll would need modification and recompiling? Because I don't have Visual C++ (and I'm not really a programmer either). The INSTALL doc says that rlBabel.dll can only be built using Visual C++ with the Win32 SDK installed. Probably still better than having to learn OCaml though (shudder).

Originally Posted by Polarem

If you install it, can you tell me if you notice any performance drops? My 0.09 was slow enough (being run from within VirtualBox), but updating seemed to make the save/load menus nightmarish :-S

Yikes! rlvm is slow enough running native in Snow Leopard; I can't imagine what it's like on a virtual machine.

0.10 actually seems faster in the Save/Load menus (for me) than 0.09; I used to have to hold down a mouse button to get clicks to register in that menu, and I don't anymore. However, what's really interesting is that the text is properly formatted in that menu now, which means that Elliot has successfully implemented his own version of ObjOfTextCall(). (I don't know if he's done the same for Select_SCall(), but combing through his changes on GitHub might clarify that.) You might want to grab the source to rlvm and have a look; I don't know how much of it would be Windows-portable, but it's probably better than starting from scratch.

Things that haven't changed from 0.09 to 0.10: fonts are still not selectable from the Config menu, and Auto Mode is still semi-broken -- there are no numbers when you adjust the sliders for wait time, and it still doesn't wait for voice clips to finish playing before moving to the next message.

That bit you posted about the location of rlvm save games was super-helpful, because it's not documented in any obvious place. (OK, it's probably noted somewhere in the source code, but that doesn't count. It's certainly not in any of the README's accompanying the tarball.) Thanks to that, I was able to re-test the Sunohara rap issue under 0.10, and confirm that it's not a problem; I'm betting it probably would've worked in 0.09 too if I'd known where the save files actually lived.

I should (hopefully) have some time this weekend to do some more proofreading.

-XCN-

[Polarem]

Originally Posted by Xcandescent

Yikes! rlvm is slow enough running native in Snow Leopard; I can't imagine what it's like on a virtual machine.

0.10 actually seems faster in the Save/Load menus (for me) than 0.09; I used to have to hold down a mouse button to get clicks to register in that menu, and I don't anymore.

I now have to wait several seconds after clicking "save" or "load" for the menu to show up Oh well!

Originally Posted by Xcandescent

Things that haven't changed from 0.09 to 0.10: fonts are still not selectable from the Config menu, and Auto Mode is still semi-broken -- there are no numbers when you adjust the sliders for wait time, and it still doesn't wait for voice clips to finish playing before moving to the next message.

That bit you posted about the location of rlvm save games was super-helpful, because it's not documented in any obvious place. (OK, it's probably noted somewhere in the source code, but that doesn't count. It's certainly not in any of the README's accompanying the tarball.)

Glad to be of help. If you're up for bug reports and suggestions, head on over to https://github.com/eglaysher/rlvm/issues

Originally Posted by Xcandescent

To be clear: rlBabel.dll would need modification and recompiling? Because I don't have Visual C++ (and I'm not really a programmer either).

...

However, what's really interesting is that the text is properly formatted in that menu now, which means that Elliot has successfully implemented his own version of ObjOfTextCall(). (I don't know if he's done the same for Select_SCall(), but combing through his changes on GitHub might clarify that.) You might want to grab the source to rlvm and have a look; I don't know how much of it would be Windows-portable, but it's probably better than starting from scratch.

Yea, the DLL needs to be recompiled. I have VC++ 2008, and was able to build a working, modified DLL (just small optimizations and reformatting for now; the thing is a horrible obfuscated mess).

rlBabel uses the Windows API to format the text, so rlvm's code won't be portable, but it might provide insight into meanings of byte values. The current biggest annoyances in the DLL code are hard-coded numbers with no written explanations.

Originally Posted by Xcandescent

I should (hopefully) have some time this weekend to do some more proofreading.

You can be in charge of that (or at least for the time being)... hacking rlBabel is surprisingly fun, hehe...

[Xcandescent]

Originally Posted by Polarem

If you're up for bug reports and suggestions, head on over to https://github.com/eglaysher/rlvm/issues

Elliot suggested the same thing, so I guess I'll be making a github account shortly.

Originally Posted by Polarem

Yea, the DLL needs to be recompiled. I have VC++ 2008, and was able to build a working, modified DLL (just small optimizations and reformatting for now; the thing is a horrible obfuscated mess).

VC++ Express or Pro? I did download the offline .iso for Visual Express 2008, but I wasn't sure if it was worth installing, as it's unclear what dependencies rlBabel has (and Express doesn't ship with all the libs).

(Also, you're using the branch from SVN, right? I think litghost hacked both rlBabel and rldev for 1.5.0.4 compatibility with FV.)

Originally Posted by Polarem

rlBabel uses the Windows API to format the text, so rlvm's code won't be portable, but it might provide insight into meanings of byte values. The current biggest annoyances in the DLL code are hard-coded numbers with no written explanations.

Yeah, Haeleth mentioned in another thread that parts of the implementation are super ugly. Obviously, anything having to do with actual text display won't be portable, but the idea is to simply hook objToText() and select_s() into the pre-existing text formatting routines, which Elliot has clearly done (well ... at least for objToText(), anyway).

What's interesting to me is that there's an implementation of rlBabel in rlvm ... in fact, there's a file in the rlvm source (under src/Systems/Base) called "RlBabelDLL.cpp", which looks like a consolidated, cleaned-up version of various functions from the rlBabel source.

Originally Posted by Polarem

You can be in charge of that (or at least for the time being)... hacking rlBabel is surprisingly fun, hehe...

Will do. Good luck with the hacking!

-XCN-

[kazuki27]

umm sorry maybe i was too late, but please help me
i've downloaded clannad game for psp,also the english patch, but it said something about CD, maybe CD is required for this game? is there any way to enjoy this game without cd?
please help, thanks

[Polarem]

Originally Posted by kazuki27

umm sorry maybe i was too late, but please help me
i've downloaded clannad game for psp,also the english patch, but it said something about CD, maybe CD is required for this game? is there any way to enjoy this game without cd?
please help, thanks

Sorry kazuki27, AnimeSuki doesn't allow members to discuss how to crack pirated games. http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?...#faq_rules_1_1

[Polarem]

Originally Posted by Polarem

Good news: It looks like we don't need to modify the compiler (no need to learn OCaml!).

...I was sorely mistaken. Rldev and rlBabel are tightly integrated, and the compiler source code contains extensive (and scattered) instructions for processing data destined for rlBabel. So that route is starting to look unlikely, unless we can find someone with the know-how. I contacted gemot encubed last week and Elliot today.

Originally Posted by Xcandescent

the idea is to simply hook objToText() and select_s() into the pre-existing text formatting routines, which Elliot has clearly done (well ... at least for objToText(), anyway).

What's interesting to me is that there's an implementation of rlBabel in rlvm ... in fact, there's a file in the rlvm source (under src/Systems/Base) called "RlBabelDLL.cpp", which looks like a consolidated, cleaned-up version of various functions from the rlBabel source.

Unfortunately, Text-Windows and Objects might have different rendering mechanisms (just an educated guess though, judging by the function call trees I looked at). Even if I knew how to modify rlc, I can't find a way to convert rlBabel's tiled strings into RealLive Objects.

An alternative possibility for static text (Tomoyo, Kappei and empty save slots) would be to pre-render them as new .g00 files and modify the Kepago code to use obfOfFile() instead of objOfText().

For Fuuko's pranks... we COULD replace select_s() with select(), but I can't see fans being happy with that

Originally Posted by Xcandescent

VC++ Express or Pro? I did download the offline .iso for Visual Express 2008, but I wasn't sure if it was worth installing, as it's unclear what dependencies rlBabel has (and Express doesn't ship with all the libs).

(Also, you're using the branch from SVN, right? I think litghost hacked both rlBabel and rldev for 1.5.0.4 compatibility with FV.)

I have Pro, courtesy of MSDN, so I don't know if Express can handle it, sorry... but yes I'm using the Clannad version.

[Xcandescent]

Originally Posted by Polarem

...I was sorely mistaken. Rldev and rlBabel are tightly integrated, and the compiler source code contains extensive (and scattered) instructions for processing data destined for rlBabel. So that route is starting to look unlikely, unless we can find someone with the know-how. I contacted gemot encubed last week and Elliot today.

Unfortunately, Text-Windows and Objects might have different rendering mechanisms (just an educated guess though, judging by the function call trees I looked at). Even if I knew how to modify rlc, I can't find a way to convert rlBabel's tiled strings into RealLive Objects.

... damn, that bites.

I talked with Elliot privately over E-mail, and discovered that he actually fixed objToText() by accident. It also turns out that the fix was trivial for him, because he isn't doing gymnastics to get RealLive.exe to do stuff through an external DLL. That's the upside of writing your own implementation of RealLive. (The downside, of course, is that he can only clone behaviors and functionality he's aware of, which is tricky when you're dealing with an undocumented VM.)

Originally Posted by Polarem

An alternative possibility for static text (Tomoyo, Kappei and empty save slots) would be to pre-render them as new .g00 files and modify the Kepago code to use obfOfFile() instead of objOfText().

For Fuuko's pranks... we COULD replace select_s() with select(), but I can't see fans being happy with that

The first is totally doable for banner messages (since Clannad is fixed resolution -- though beware of resolution differences between original and FV), but not really practical for save slots, since slots that are used still have to be rendered using the fixed-width routines. But I only see three solutions to the Fuuko issue:

1.) Get someone to properly implement select_s(). (Unlikely, but possible.)
2.) Replace RealLive with rlvm. (However, rlvm is written for Linux and OSX, which implies that it would have to be built and run under Cygwin or Cygwin + MinGW. Even assuming you can get it to run in Windows, you'd then have to extensively test its behavior against the original RealLive Windows build, to make sure that everything behaves in the same fashion. Also, you can't choose fonts in rlvm, due to differences between supported platforms.)
3.) Implement all Fuuko's menus as .g00 objects, then write your own routines in Kepago to properly detect and interpret mouse clicks on them, and process the choices appropriately. (If possible, it's still a load of pain and suffering.)

For now, let's see if we can stir any interest in getting select_s() properly implemented. May as well try, anyway. Implementing Fuuko's menus by hand is a rather ugly fallback ... but not impossible. (SEEN9520.ke seems to do just that with the right-click menus, but the number of op calls in there is frightening.)

-XCN-

[Polarem]

Originally Posted by Xcandescent

I talked with Elliot privately over E-mail, and discovered that he actually fixed objToText() by accident. It also turns out that the fix was trivial for him, because he isn't doing gymnastics to get RealLive.exe to do stuff through an external DLL. That's the upside of writing your own implementation of RealLive. (The downside, of course, is that he can only clone behaviors and functionality he's aware of, which is tricky when you're dealing with an undocumented VM.)

I'm actually quite amazed at the amount of knowledge that Jagarl and Haeleth managed to glean by dissecting RealLive! The documentation is incomplete, but it's proven to be more than enough to make cloning RealLive viable. And it just may be enough to let us do (some of) what we want to do, too (see below)...

Originally Posted by Xcandescent

...beware of resolution differences between original and FV

All translated graphics will need to be redone to support the original Clannad (including EverSynth's menus). The Memorial Edition uses the same graphics as Full Voice (except for copyright dates, the legal notice at the start of the game, and the config menu).

I haven't tested rlBabel-GenMap yet, but if it works on ME's RealLive, it should be easier to port our work to ME than to the original edition.

Originally Posted by Xcandescent

...slots that are used still have to be rendered using the fixed-width routines.

That'll be a toughie.

Originally Posted by Xcandescent

But I only see three solutions to the Fuuko issue:
1.) Get someone to properly implement select_s(). (Unlikely, but possible.)
2.) Replace RealLive with rlvm. (However, rlvm is written for Linux and OSX, which implies that it would have to be built and run under Cygwin or Cygwin + MinGW. Even assuming you can get it to run in Windows, you'd then have to extensively test its behavior against the original RealLive Windows build, to make sure that everything behaves in the same fashion. Also, you can't choose fonts in rlvm, due to differences between supported platforms.)
3.) Implement all Fuuko's menus as .g00 objects, then write your own routines in Kepago to properly detect and interpret mouse clicks on them, and process the choices appropriately. (If possible, it's still a load of pain and suffering.)

For now, let's see if we can stir any interest in getting select_s() properly implemented. May as well try, anyway. Implementing Fuuko's menus by hand is a rather ugly fallback ... but not impossible. (SEEN9520.ke seems to do just that with the right-click menus, but the number of op calls in there is frightening.)

...I can't believe I didn't think of #3! That's actually not as painful as you might think. SEEN9520.ke is in Assembly-style code, which is why it looks scary; when written in C-style (and using only a small subset of functions) it looks quite tame. Here's a sample of a Kepago-implemented menu:



I haven't made any .g00 files for it yet so the above uses objOfText() with monospaced font (there's another option, a la Kanon: ship Deja Vu Sans Mono and recommended players to use it).

The menu isn't interactive yet, but from other mouse experiments (pun intended) I believe it's possible to mimic most of select_s()'s behaviour (minus the ability to read the text log while the menu is open, and maybe the ability to mark it as a return point for "Return to previous selection")

In the process, I also found out that we can alleviate the CPU overdrive issue by inserting a wait() command into the menu loops.

I wouldn't replace RealLive with rlvm on Windows (at least just yet), as we'd lose more features than we gain (screen shake, sepia toning, text input, animated selections [both select() and select_s()], playback of previous speech... just off the top of my head)

Out of curiosity, by "implement select_s()" properly, did you mean getting the compiler to do it, or getting rlBabel to do it?

[Xcandescent]

Originally Posted by Polarem

I haven't tested rlBabel-GenMap yet, but if it works on ME's RealLive, it should be easier to port our work to ME than to the original edition.

I think GenMap had to be hacked to recognize the version of RealLive that shipped with FV (see SVN), so it's far from a sure thing that it'll work with ME.

Originally Posted by Polarem

...I can't believe I didn't think of #3! That's actually not as painful as you might think. SEEN9520.ke is in Assembly-style code, which is why it looks scary; when written in C-style (and using only a small subset of functions) it looks quite tame. Here's a sample of a Kepago-implemented menu:

... holy crap.

I can't believe that suggestion is not only viable, but practical! Actually, it's probably not as hard as I was thinking, because the actual code for what the buttons DO doesn't have to change, only the routines to detect mouse clicks and animate the buttons.

Originally Posted by Polarem

I haven't made any .g00 files for it yet so the above uses objOfText() with monospaced font (there's another option, a la Kanon: ship Deja Vu Sans Mono and recommended players to use it).

It really should be implemented graphically, but you raised a potential blocking issue (below). Players are already familiar with the previous patches that supported proportional fonts, and will (rightfully) scream if that goes away ...

Originally Posted by Polarem

The menu isn't interactive yet, but from other mouse experiments (pun intended) I believe it's possible to mimic most of select_s()'s behaviour (minus the ability to read the text log while the menu is open, and maybe the ability to mark it as a return point for "Return to previous selection")

Temporarily suspending the text log functionality is probably fine (since it's accessible everywhere else); I'm more concerned about the "Return to previous selection" issue, since there was a fair bit of work done in past patches to fix that. Since you said "maybe", I'm guessing you don't know how it's implemented (I certainly don't). That question needs to be answered, in order for a replacement of select_s() with graphics + custom code to be viable.

Originally Posted by Polarem

I wouldn't replace RealLive with rlvm on Windows (at least just yet), as we'd lose more features than we gain (screen shake, graphics filtering [e.g. sepia toning, colour inversion], text input, animated selections [both select() and select_s()], playback of previous speech... just off the top of my head)

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Polarem

Out of curiosity, by "implement select_s()" properly, did you mean getting the compiler to do it, or getting rlBabel to do it?

I mean whatever it takes to get it working properly, whether it's hacking rlc, rlBabel, or both.

-XCN-

[Polarem]

Originally Posted by Xcandescent

I think GenMap had to be hacked to recognize the version of RealLive that shipped with FV (see SVN), so it's far from a sure thing that it'll work with ME.

Only 1 way to find out: Try it! I bought ME, so I'll investigate (...when I get around to it)

Originally Posted by Xcandescent

It really should be implemented graphically.... Players are already familiar with the previous patches that supported proportional fonts, and will (rightfully) scream if that goes away ...

I didn't like that solution either.

Originally Posted by Xcandescent

I'm more concerned about the "Return to previous selection" issue, since there was a fair bit of work done in past patches to fix that. Since you said "maybe", I'm guessing you don't know how it's implemented (I certainly don't). That question needs to be answered, in order for a replacement of select_s() with graphics + custom code to be viable.

Nope, I have no idea how it's done. The rest of the game will be unaffected; it's just that players will skip PAST the prank menus to the last select() call... which might be acceptable, I think, because IIRC, 6 out of the 7 prank menus come immediately after a select() choice to either "play a prank" or "wait"!

Anyway, for the menu, we have 2 options at this point:
1) Use the custom menu, and find a way to trigger a save point (or ignore it, if a way can't be found)
2) Use the built-in menu, forcing RealLive to use a monospaced font for the menu text (check your email; I sent you some test code)

[kazuki27]

how can i get the english patch for my clannad iso psp?

[Jecht2]

Originally Posted by kazuki27

how can i get the english patch for my clannad iso psp?

As Polarem already mentioned...

Originally Posted by Polarem

Sorry kazuki27, AnimeSuki doesn't allow members to discuss how to crack pirated games. http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?...#faq_rules_1_1

Besides that, I believe that the patch being developed is not compatible with the PSP version of the game.

-----

I belive that I may have installed the Seen from the SVN incorrectly. I keep getting an error stating:

Error: interpreter detection failed. Unable t
o format text.

[Polarem]

Originally Posted by Jecht2

As Polarem already mentioned...

I have somewhat mixed feelings about this at the moment, as it's near impossible to find a legit copy of Clannad Full Voice (or the original version) nowadays... Does anyone know where to get one?

Originally Posted by Jecht2

Besides that, I believe that the patch being developed is not compatible with the PSP version of the game.

-----

I belive that I may have installed the Seen from the SVN incorrectly. I keep getting an error stating:

Error: interpreter detection failed. Unable t
o format text.

You're right, there is no English patch for the PSP version.

That error message is due to a missing W.X.Y.Z.map file. W-Z correspond to the version number of your RealLive.exe, so assuming that you have the Full Voice version, place 1.5.0.4.map (the download button is at the right hand side) into your Clannad installation directory.

[Xcandescent]

Originally Posted by Polarem

I have somewhat mixed feelings about this at the moment, as it's near impossible to find a legit copy of Clannad Full Voice (or the original version) nowadays... Does anyone know where to get one?

Not off the top of my head. I'd have to ask people who routinely import DVD's from Japan, because I don't. (There are probably third-party shipping services to get around the whole "we don't ship outside Japan" nonsense.)

--

That said, I'm going to briefly spell out for everyone why console patches for Clannad are never going to happen.

First, patching a console game means hacking said console, ripping and potentially re-burning said game, etc ... and we can't discuss any of that here, for obvious reasons.

Second, there is no console equivalent of rlBabel.dll, which does the proportional text formatting. That would have to be rewritten for every single platform, and then forcibly hacked into the existing executable, which is a huge hurdle. (Given the amount of reverse engineering required, you'd probably be better off porting rlvm to each console -- which is also no picnic, as you'd still have to custom code routines for handling input from controllers.) Substituting some ugly fixed-width English font might work, but that also requires hacking each executable.

Third, the version of SEEN.TXT currently used in the PC patch (or, more specifically, its source files) has been hacked in various, mostly undocumented ways to work properly with the rldev toolchain -- and there are further hacks in the pipeline to deal with needed functions that haven't yet been implemented in rldev. It's unclear how those hacks would work (or not work) on a ported engine (or a different engine).

Finally, there's a small (but critical) amount of text that's only implemented graphically -- and it's not just the menus. Those graphics would have to be redone for every single console version, in whatever format each one takes. (And that assumes the Japanese text hasn't already been "baked" into the compressed movie ... which would be really difficult to undo.)

--

The real issue here is that Key is consciously ignoring the non-Japanese fans. If they really wanted English-localized versions of Clannad, they would've made the licensing arrangements years ago. (How else do you explain the existence of Clannad on PS3 and Xbox360 in Japan, and nowhere else?) It probably doesn't make sense for them to expend resources where the market is far smaller, and they can't get away with charging the "premium" prices that the Japanese customers are used to. Believe me, I sympathize, but I can't do anything about that; we're having enough trouble scraping together manpower to finish the PC patch.

-XCN-

[Kamiye]

I've recently acquire a Clannad game, the full voice version... (It's a present of a friend)
And I've try to install the unofficial patch 4 times and the 4 times it crashed so I need help to install the patch (My Japaneses friends won't traduce the entire game for me... XD)

So, someone can help me ? I really need to play to this game because I'm a Clannad fan since a long time ago and finally I get the game yesterday.

PS : Sorry for my bad english

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Kamiye

I've recently acquire a Clannad game, the full voice version... (It's a present of a friend)
And I've try to install the unofficial patch 4 times and the 4 times it crashed so I need help to install the patch (My Japaneses friends won't traduce the entire game for me... XD)

So, someone can help me ? I really need to play to this game because I'm a Clannad fan since a long time ago and finally I get the game yesterday.

PS : Sorry for my bad english

Okay, what happens? Does a pop-up indicate that the installer crashed? Do you get the BSOD?

In order for any of us to give you any help, you're going to need to give us more information on the problem that you're experiencing.

[Kamiye]

OK, so at the beginning there's a pop-up with Japanese word and when I click on Ok the game open and the screen is black.

One times the beginning of the game start and the game is in the up-left corner and the rest of the screen is black. When this happen the game freeze at the beginning of the story and the game is a white screen.

When there's no translation, the game runs perfectly normally

[Khu]

I had this problem before. I think your seen.txt is corrupted or something. Re download the patch and apply it again.

Either that or change your system locale to Japanese.

[Kamiye]

I've try all the seen.txt I've find but have you got any link for me ? All the link I find are corrupted
My system locale is already change to Japanese...
thanks for help me

[Polarem]

Steps for a Full Voice patch on Windows, using the Wafflehouse text patch and EverSynth's graphics patch (as of 2011-02-23)

1. From http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clannad/documents, get:

• SEENr78_FV.txt, then rename it to SEEN.TXT
• rlBabel.dll
• gameexe_ini_r43.rar, then EXTRACT the Full Voice version of gameexe.ini

2. From http://www.assembla.com/code/clannad...nt/1.5.0.4.map, get:

• 1.5.0.4.map (use the "download" button to the right)

3. From http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=603, get:

• Clannad Full Voice Menu and Graphics Translations v1.5.rar (choose MediaFire or Megaupload -- it doesn't matter which)

4. Put all the bolded files from (#1) and (#2) into your Clannad installation folder.

5. EXTRACT all the files from (#3), except the README file, into your Clannad installation's G00 subfolder

6. Have fun!

EDIT: Latest patches available at http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...68#post3581568

=====================================
Troubleshooting tips
1. If you have used a different patch before, or if you have played in Japanese before, delete your SAVEDATA subfolder to remove incompatible data (you will lose your saved games)

2. If you have trouble loading rlBabel.dll (the game should do it automatically), install the Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 SP1 Redistributable Package (x86) and restart your computer.