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GendoAizenPig · 2018-01-11, 21:23

@Endscape

It's possible Gengo could have, but I'll agree it's pretty doubtful. He more than likely was considered due to being the man with all the answers on top of being a founding member of the Chevalier. Radox still could be, but I seriously doubt that the manga will say one way or the other.

I'd say they most likely reinstated him due to them all being too cowardly to take Gengo on themselves. Apparently Radox always distrusted Gengo though, so that could also be a contributing factor. Also he was already planning on doing something with or without the Chevalier's help.

I'm fully on board with what your saying in context of real world laws and practices. I don't however feel that applies to a world on the brink of destruction. Morals and laws are pretty useless when everyone is dead. While I'm not conceding, I don't see a point it talking about this anymore. We've went back and forth with it and it's not going anywhere.

I pay for these official releases. There's no point if I don't believe they're accurate. Unless Seven Seas Entertainment releases a statement saying they goofed, I'm taking what is in them as canon and accurate information. It's unfortunate you don't feel the same, but I can't fault you for it.

I agree on the USSR stuff too. It way too off-topic.

Endscape · 2018-01-11, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

@Endscape
I'm fully on board with what your saying in context of real world laws and practices. I don't however feel that applies to a world on the brink of destruction. Morals and laws are pretty useless when everyone is dead. While I'm not conceding, I don't see a point it talking about this anymore. We've went back and forth with it and it's not going anywhere.

So while the world is going to hell in a handbasket due to alien invasion, the tyrannical government ruling the planet is wasting time, money and resources trying to kill Gengo rather than preparing for the next Nova Clash? Since the world is in such a state, incompetence like that is really unforgiveable.

Quote:

I pay for these official releases. There's no point if I don't believe they're accurate. Unless Seven Seas Entertainment releases a statement saying they goofed, I'm taking what is in them as canon and accurate information. It's unfortunate you don't feel the same, but I can't fault you for it.

I've paid for many an offical release muddled with mistakes. For the sake of argument, the source is the best.

GendoAizenPig · 2018-01-11, 22:08

@Endscape

I'd argue the same could be said for Gengo staging a coup d'etat. Especially when he took all of their strongest weapons hostage and withheld the data on the last Nova Clash. He basically left them with no way to fight the more powerful Nova. How are they supposed to prepare when he took all of the good toys with him? See what I mean, this is just going to round right back into what started all of this...

I can't read the language the source is in, so no matter what I'm getting the information second hand. I'll take my chances with the people that are being paid to translate it.

Gespenst1 · 2018-01-11, 22:25

Speaking of the Sevens Seas translations, how far are they now?

Endscape · 2018-01-11, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

@Endscape
I'd argue the same could be said for Gengo staging a coup d'etat. Especially when he took all of their strongest weapons hostage and withheld the data on the last Nova Clash. He basically left them with no way to fight the more powerful Nova. How are they supposed to prepare when he took all of the good toys with him? See what I mean, this is just going to round right back into what started all of this...

The difference is that Gengo was at least willing to co-operate, even if he was forceful about it. These dudes juped straight to wasting time with assassinations.

GendoAizenPig · 2018-01-11, 22:35

@Gespenst1

Volume 19-20 come out at the end of next month.

@Endscape

Like I said, around in circles. At least I hope we can agree that the ones that suffer the most in all of this are the Pandora.

Ramero · 2018-01-12, 00:24

Don't forget that Kazuya is the one that suffers the most amongst all Pandora.

Endscape · 2018-01-12, 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

.
@Endscape

Like I said, around in circles. At least I hope we can agree that the ones that suffer the most in all of this are the Pandora.

I can agree on that.

DragonOsman · 2018-01-12, 08:20

Both Gengo and the Chevalier are bad, so it really just comes down to who the more necessary of the two evils is. And I pick Gengo. And yeah, Cassandra does have emotions. She loves Kazuya, her son. And I'm thinking Endscape has a way to verify the raw, otherwise he wouldn't have said he'd check it (for whether or not Scarlett said that the Busters were released before they developed frontal lobes).

As for Gengo ensuring his own family line continues to rule. The fact of the matter is that Kazuya, when he takes power, can be better than Gengo. It's not like he's the same kind of person as Gengo. He doesn't even like it, he agreed to go along with it for the sake of humanity and I think he can be a good leader.

Ramero · 2018-01-12, 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

Both Gengo and the Chevalier are bad, so it really just comes down to who the more necessary of the two evils is. And I pick Gengo. And yeah, Cassandra does have emotions. She loves Kazuya, her son. And I'm thinking Endscape has a way to verify the raw, otherwise he wouldn't have said he'd check it (for whether or not Scarlett said that the Busters were released before they developed frontal lobes).

As for Gengo ensuring his own family line continues to rule. The fact of the matter is that Kazuya, when he takes power, can be better than Gengo. It's not like he's the same kind of person as Gengo. He doesn't even like it, he agreed to go along with it for the sake of humanity and I think he can be a good leader.

Kazuya is just a stepson for Cassandra, note that Orie is originally Kazuya's mother and due to her unable to bear such progress through Gengo's plan he move Kazuya to Cassandra. Cassandra may consider Kazuya as her son but in reality she's not a real mother.

The problem is how Gengo was able to keep his sanity since we don't want to see another family tragedy like Kazuya's father that decide to commit suicide or maybe Orie that died because of Gengo.

DragonOsman · 2018-01-12, 12:02

Yes, she isn't his real mother, but she does love him like a real mother would. Because she gave birth to him.

Tachibana · 2018-01-12, 16:47

Cassandra is both Kazuya's aunt and mother.

DragonOsman · 2018-01-12, 17:14

True, but she seems to love him like a mother would. There are flashback of her being sad when he was taken away from her at times when she'd been holding him (when he was a baby).

Ramero · 2018-01-12, 21:25

Cassandra treat Kazuya as her son because she gave birth to him yes but the fact through biological is she's not his mother. The fact Orie want to take Kazuya back is because she's the biological mother while Cassandra originally doesn't have rights to take care of Kazuya due to being a surrogate.

Tachibana · 2018-01-13, 00:06

I consider Cassandra more of a mother than Orie. Besides she mine as well be. She gave birth to Kazuya and is biologically related to him.

zibi88 · 2018-01-13, 04:11

Orie held Kazuya fetus for only 4months while Cassandra 5months and gave physical birth to him which makes Cassandra a bit more of a mother. Besides she kinda is his biological mother in a way becouse both her and Kazuya share blood from Maria. Things would be a bit different if Kazuya had been moved to a woman not related to Maria at all, complete different genome, yet here they share blood and flesh so in a way it makes her a biological mom.

Besides its not really important if she was biological mom or not, what matters is how she acted after that. After giving birth she was very happy as we saw her smile a lot, she was taking care of Kazuya simply out of love and gave him not only food but was cuddling and giving warmth (one that he remembered all those year). Kazuya felt safe, happy and as we saw those aspects made him consider cassandra his mom.

Orie on the other hand wanted to get pregnant only for show. She could not connect to Kazuha so she hoped to create new kid that would accept her. She did it only to secure her position in front of Gendo. Orie didnt really show much of warmth or safty towards her kids, she showed more of a fear, hate, especially when Cassandra was introduced to the family. Cassandra had everything that she lacked and felt insecure, out of fear that she will take her husband away from her she forced herself to get pregnant and just show that she won.

When Orie died for the first time she displayed warmth and kindness to Kazuha which she instantly accepted and cried for her loss. Orie simply had to drop that negative aura around her and act with warmth. Cassandra also felt sorry for Ories death and felt guilty for it, which makes her want to protect Kazuya even more.

What I wonder is why did Cassandra disappear right after what kazuyas dad did to her. She left Kazuya behind and just like that disappeared, either her health went bad or mission was done (project arcadia). We need a chapter where those two talk this shit out and so we can get a proper explanation on what happened after that.

Another funny thing would be to have Arcadia develop a brother complex and not let any other girl approch him xD

DragonOsman · 2018-01-13, 05:51

I was loving that post until you mentioned Arcadia developing a brother complex. I'm a supporter of the Kazuya x Satellizer ship, so I'd hate for Arcadia to turn out to be a brocon who wouldn't let other women get near her dear brother.

Aside from that, though, I do agree with you. And the very fact that Cassandra felt guilty over Orie's death also shows that she has emotions. But yeah, I also want to know why she disappeared. Though she didn't disappear right after Ryuuichi raped her, she disappeared sometime after she'd already taken care of a Kazuya for a bit.

Ramero · 2018-01-13, 10:39

The thing is, i just discovered that the core of problem remains on one person, Gengo Aoi. Now he pay his price by letting three of his family members died under his watch because of his actions.

GendoAizenPig · 2018-01-13, 11:41

@DragonOsman

Cassandra caring about Kazuya is not really much of a surprise. All of the Legendary Pandora do. He is one of the three things that they do care about. The other two being Gengo and his plans.

It doesn't challenge my opinion that she acts mentally deficient though. Or that she is borderline emotionless.

I felt I needed to defend my position since you kept bringing up her having emotions and I was the only one who said she was borderline emotionless. (Keyword is borderline, which means I do think she has some)

DragonOsman · 2018-01-13, 11:42

@Ramero: And nobody's denying that the main problem is him. But that doesn't really make Cassandra any less of a mother to Kazuya (even though she's also his aunt), so I don't know why you're bringing that up in the middle of this conversation.

Edit: One post late.
@GendoAizenPig: My point is just that, as Endscape said, she does have at least some emotions even though she's one of the Legendary Pandora and also the oldest. I won't deny that she's borderline emotionless. But she's also Kazuya's mother and aunt, so of course she'd care for him because of that as well. More so than the other Legendary Pandora.

2018-01-12, 08:20	Link #4449
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	Both Gengo and the Chevalier are bad, so it really just comes down to who the more necessary of the two evils is. And I pick Gengo. And yeah, Cassandra does have emotions. She loves Kazuya, her son. And I'm thinking Endscape has a way to verify the raw, otherwise he wouldn't have said he'd check it (for whether or not Scarlett said that the Busters were released before they developed frontal lobes). As for Gengo ensuring his own family line continues to rule. The fact of the matter is that Kazuya, when he takes power, can be better than Gengo. It's not like he's the same kind of person as Gengo. He doesn't even like it, he agreed to go along with it for the sake of humanity and I think he can be a good leader. __________________

2018-01-12, 12:02	Link #4451
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	Yes, she isn't his real mother, but she does love him like a real mother would. Because she gave birth to him. __________________

2018-01-12, 16:47	Link #4452
Tachibana タチバナ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Noctis Labyrinthus Age: 33	Cassandra is both Kazuya's aunt and mother. __________________

2018-01-12, 17:14	Link #4453
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	True, but she seems to love him like a mother would. There are flashback of her being sad when he was taken away from her at times when she'd been holding him (when he was a baby). __________________

2018-01-13, 00:06	Link #4455
Tachibana タチバナ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Noctis Labyrinthus Age: 33	I consider Cassandra more of a mother than Orie. Besides she mine as well be. She gave birth to Kazuya and is biologically related to him. __________________

2018-01-11, 21:23	Link #4441
GendoAizenPig Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: United States	@Endscape It's possible Gengo could have, but I'll agree it's pretty doubtful. He more than likely was considered due to being the man with all the answers on top of being a founding member of the Chevalier. Radox still could be, but I seriously doubt that the manga will say one way or the other. I'd say they most likely reinstated him due to them all being too cowardly to take Gengo on themselves. Apparently Radox always distrusted Gengo though, so that could also be a contributing factor. Also he was already planning on doing something with or without the Chevalier's help. I'm fully on board with what your saying in context of real world laws and practices. I don't however feel that applies to a world on the brink of destruction. Morals and laws are pretty useless when everyone is dead. While I'm not conceding, I don't see a point it talking about this anymore. We've went back and forth with it and it's not going anywhere. I pay for these official releases. There's no point if I don't believe they're accurate. Unless Seven Seas Entertainment releases a statement saying they goofed, I'm taking what is in them as canon and accurate information. It's unfortunate you don't feel the same, but I can't fault you for it. I agree on the USSR stuff too. It way too off-topic.

2018-01-11, 22:08	Link #4443
GendoAizenPig Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: United States	@Endscape I'd argue the same could be said for Gengo staging a coup d'etat. Especially when he took all of their strongest weapons hostage and withheld the data on the last Nova Clash. He basically left them with no way to fight the more powerful Nova. How are they supposed to prepare when he took all of the good toys with him? See what I mean, this is just going to round right back into what started all of this... I can't read the language the source is in, so no matter what I'm getting the information second hand. I'll take my chances with the people that are being paid to translate it.

2018-01-11, 22:25	Link #4444
Gespenst1 Member Join Date: Oct 2015	Speaking of the Sevens Seas translations, how far are they now?

2018-01-11, 22:35	Link #4446
GendoAizenPig Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: United States	@Gespenst1 Volume 19-20 come out at the end of next month. @Endscape Like I said, around in circles. At least I hope we can agree that the ones that suffer the most in all of this are the Pandora.

2018-01-12, 00:24	Link #4447
Ramero 7th Order Knight / Hermit Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: St. Celestina	Don't forget that Kazuya is the one that suffers the most amongst all Pandora.

2018-01-12, 21:25	Link #4454
Ramero 7th Order Knight / Hermit Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: St. Celestina	Cassandra treat Kazuya as her son because she gave birth to him yes but the fact through biological is she's not his mother. The fact Orie want to take Kazuya back is because she's the biological mother while Cassandra originally doesn't have rights to take care of Kazuya due to being a surrogate.

2018-01-13, 04:11	Link #4456
zibi88 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	Orie held Kazuya fetus for only 4months while Cassandra 5months and gave physical birth to him which makes Cassandra a bit more of a mother. Besides she kinda is his biological mother in a way becouse both her and Kazuya share blood from Maria. Things would be a bit different if Kazuya had been moved to a woman not related to Maria at all, complete different genome, yet here they share blood and flesh so in a way it makes her a biological mom. Besides its not really important if she was biological mom or not, what matters is how she acted after that. After giving birth she was very happy as we saw her smile a lot, she was taking care of Kazuya simply out of love and gave him not only food but was cuddling and giving warmth (one that he remembered all those year). Kazuya felt safe, happy and as we saw those aspects made him consider cassandra his mom. Orie on the other hand wanted to get pregnant only for show. She could not connect to Kazuha so she hoped to create new kid that would accept her. She did it only to secure her position in front of Gendo. Orie didnt really show much of warmth or safty towards her kids, she showed more of a fear, hate, especially when Cassandra was introduced to the family. Cassandra had everything that she lacked and felt insecure, out of fear that she will take her husband away from her she forced herself to get pregnant and just show that she won. When Orie died for the first time she displayed warmth and kindness to Kazuha which she instantly accepted and cried for her loss. Orie simply had to drop that negative aura around her and act with warmth. Cassandra also felt sorry for Ories death and felt guilty for it, which makes her want to protect Kazuya even more. What I wonder is why did Cassandra disappear right after what kazuyas dad did to her. She left Kazuya behind and just like that disappeared, either her health went bad or mission was done (project arcadia). We need a chapter where those two talk this shit out and so we can get a proper explanation on what happened after that. Another funny thing would be to have Arcadia develop a brother complex and not let any other girl approch him xD

2018-01-13, 05:51	Link #4457
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	I was loving that post until you mentioned Arcadia developing a brother complex. I'm a supporter of the Kazuya x Satellizer ship, so I'd hate for Arcadia to turn out to be a brocon who wouldn't let other women get near her dear brother. Aside from that, though, I do agree with you. And the very fact that Cassandra felt guilty over Orie's death also shows that she has emotions. But yeah, I also want to know why she disappeared. Though she didn't disappear right after Ryuuichi raped her, she disappeared sometime after she'd already taken care of a Kazuya for a bit. __________________

2018-01-13, 10:39	Link #4458
Ramero 7th Order Knight / Hermit Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: St. Celestina	The thing is, i just discovered that the core of problem remains on one person, Gengo Aoi. Now he pay his price by letting three of his family members died under his watch because of his actions.

2018-01-13, 11:41	Link #4459
GendoAizenPig Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: United States	@DragonOsman Cassandra caring about Kazuya is not really much of a surprise. All of the Legendary Pandora do. He is one of the three things that they do care about. The other two being Gengo and his plans. It doesn't challenge my opinion that she acts mentally deficient though. Or that she is borderline emotionless. I felt I needed to defend my position since you kept bringing up her having emotions and I was the only one who said she was borderline emotionless. (Keyword is borderline, which means I do think she has some)

2018-01-13, 11:42	Link #4460
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	@Ramero: And nobody's denying that the main problem is him. But that doesn't really make Cassandra any less of a mother to Kazuya (even though she's also his aunt), so I don't know why you're bringing that up in the middle of this conversation. Edit: One post late. @GendoAizenPig: My point is just that, as Endscape said, she does have at least some emotions even though she's one of the Legendary Pandora and also the oldest. I won't deny that she's borderline emotionless. But she's also Kazuya's mother and aunt, so of course she'd care for him because of that as well. More so than the other Legendary Pandora. __________________