To Aru Kagaku no Railgun - Character Discussion - Misaka "Biri Biri" Mikoto

[ACertainStark]

Originally Posted by dniv

No, I know that. But the general trend is canon> filler so I said Liberal Arts City by analogy is the filler arc for this season.

Ah I get you now.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Why should she trust Shinobu? She barely knows Shinobu. She hasn't seen Shinobu in a long time.

Because without Shinobu, she wouldn't know about the Sisters and she knows Shinobu cares enough about Febri to risk going against the enemy.

And even if she does trust Shinobu, why should she think that Shinobu has a good handle on Aritomi? Shinobu was surprised that Aritomi even showed up, that's how well Shinobu knows Aritomi.

That still doesn't mean she can't trust Shinobu. If she can trust Telestina then she can trust Shinobu.

Originally Posted by Hiss13

Let me just completely destroy Haak's point by reminding him of Mikoto's little electric skidding trick in Episode 24 of S. Do I need to point out how painstakingly similar these situations are?

Similar but not the same. Aritomi wasn't even looking at Mikoto when he pulled the trigger. Notice how Mikoto reacted as soon as Aritomi closed his eyes?

[Ilidsor]

Originally Posted by Haak

That still doesn't mean she can't trust Shinobu. If she can trust Telestina then she can trust Shinobu.

Shinobu knew nothing more than Misaka did. The amount of trust Misaka had in her didn't matter as Shinobu was just guessing.

Like Sumeragi said, she's in a position to know what Aritomi is like and what he's capable of. And she later explained the pharmacology of the drug so it's implied she knew.

She recognized the effects of the drug. That's not the same thing as knowing what it is by sight.

Similar but not the same. Aritomi wasn't even looking at Mikoto when he pulled the trigger. Notice how Mikoto reacted as soon as Aritomi closed his eyes?

First of all, I don't think that use of her power was canonical anyways since it didn't make any sense at all. Secondly Hiss you should remove the details of that since this is a previous episode thread. And thirdly she didn't need to do that specifically. She could have grasped the thing from his hands, numbed his arm with electricity so that he dropped it, just charged him and hoped she would win, etc. Even if it was destroyed she still would have had him captive and could easily have gotten him to give up the info. And it wouldn't have needlessly risked her life.

[Hiss13]

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Secondly Hiss you should remove the details of that since this is a previous episode thread.

Actually this is a character discussion thread so anything from the anime goes.

Originally Posted by Haak

Similar but not the same. Aritomi wasn't even looking at Mikoto when he pulled the trigger. Notice how Mikoto reacted as soon as Aritomi closed his eyes?

Almost identical.
1) Mikoto was at a greater distance from Aritomi in Episode 24
2) It took Mikoto the amount of time it took Aritomi to pull the trigger to reach him. It was less than two seconds. I'll say 2 seconds just to be a bit generous to Aritomi. Within that two seconds, would Aritomi have been able to react to Mikoto even if he had seen her skidding towards him? No.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Shinobu knew nothing more than Misaka did. The amount of trust Misaka had in her didn't matter as Shinobu was just guessing.

Shinobu knows a lot more than Mikoto. That goes without saying.

She recognized the effects of the drug. That's not the same thing as knowing what it is by sight.

The effects of that drug aren't limited to just one drug. There are numerous pharmacological ways it could have worked and yet Shinobu knew it the exact way. How do you know she didn't already know?

First of all, I don't think that use of her power was canonical anyways since it didn't make any sense at all. Secondly Hiss you should remove the details of that since this is a previous episode thread. And thirdly she didn't need to do that specifically. She could have grasped the thing from his hands, numbed his arm with electricity so that he dropped it, just charged him and hoped she would win, etc. Even if it was destroyed she still would have had him captive and could easily have gotten him to give up the info. And it wouldn't have needlessly risked her life.

She couldn't use electricity at all since it could damage the stick which she needs and there's no guarantee she could have gotten him to give up the info, especially since Mikoto is no torturer and especially since they only had two days to do it.

Originally Posted by Hiss13

Almost identical.
1) Mikoto was at a greater distance from Aritomi in Episode 24
2) It took Mikoto the amount of time it took Aritomi to pull the trigger to reach him. It was less than two seconds. I'll say 2 seconds just to be a bit generous to Aritomi. Within that two seconds, would Aritomi have been able to react to Mikoto even if he had seen her skidding towards him? No.

Really? Two seconds is more than enough time.

[Hiss13]

Originally Posted by Haak

Really? Two seconds is more than enough time.

For Aritomi to do what? He wouldn't have been able to smash the USB against the table next to him in that time.

[Haak]

Snap something in his hands. It would probably take him less than a second.

And yes he could smash it against the table in a second.

[Hiss13]

Originally Posted by Haak

Snap something in his hands. It would probably take him less than a second.

I doubt he could have. Otherwise he would have done that instead of throwing it onto the floor and stamping on it. Besides, USB drives aren't so fragile thst they can be snapped by a person of average physique in less than two seconds with one hand. Not to mention that it would take some time to grab it with the other hand.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Haak

Because without Shinobu, she wouldn't know about the Sisters and she knows Shinobu cares enough about Febri to risk going against the enemy.

You remember those thieves that Shinobu successfully KOed with anesthesia? In the scene where Mikoto meets Shinobu for the very first time? Later in the same scene, Shinobu expressed a willingness to kill those thieves through burning down the entire building they were in. I don't think Shinobu was joking there, and it does show a darker side to her.

Just because Shinobu had a change of heart over the Sisters, and wanted to save Febri, doesn't mean she's completely trustworthy.

That still doesn't mean she can't trust Shinobu. If she can trust Telestina then she can trust Shinobu.

Trusting Telestina the way Mikoto did was also risky. But at least Telestina was in jail, so there's reason to think she wouldn't have lethal poison-in-candy on her. Aritomi was not in jail. There's no knowing what's in the drug he threw to Shinobu to inject into Mikoto.

She couldn't use electricity at all since it could damage the stick which she needs and there's no guarantee she could have gotten him to give up the info, especially since Mikoto is no torturer and especially since they only had two days to do it.

You're wrong. She could have chosen to take a slight risk, and used electricity. There is a possibility that she could have subdued Aritomi while successfully capturing the data stick.

Was there a risk in taking this action? Yes.

But is there a much graver and severe risk in taking the action that Mikoto did take? Yes, there definitely is.


What Mikoto did at the end of Episode 22 was dumb, ridiculously risky, and definitely worthy of criticism.

[Ilidsor]

Originally Posted by Haak

Shinobu knows a lot more than Mikoto. That goes without saying.

Shinobue knew so little more than Misaka that it makes no difference.

The effects of that drug aren't limited to just one drug. There are numerous pharmacological ways it could have worked and yet Shinobu knew it the exact way. How do you know she didn't already know?

After a while of observing Misaka and probably talking with Aritomi she figured that much out. That's after she had already inserted it into Misaka. There's no possible way she could have known what it was with nothing to go by but what colour it was.

She couldn't use electricity at all since it could damage the stick which she needs and there's no guarantee she could have gotten him to give up the info, especially since Mikoto is no torturer and especially since they only had two days to do it.

That's still much less risk than trusting a guy who tried to murder her to just give up something once she's lost all leverage. She wouldn't need to torture him at all, she could have threatened him or more likely just take him to Anti-Skill and have them say "We won't give you a life sentence if you tell us how to fix Febri"

Actually this is a character discussion thread so anything from the anime goes.

Lol I'm getting myself mixed up.





Really? Two seconds is more than enough time.[/QUOTE]

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Hiss13

I doubt he could have. Otherwise he would have done that instead of throwing it onto the floor and stamping on it. Besides, USB drives aren't so fragile thst they can be snapped by a person of average physique in less than two seconds with one hand. Not to mention that it would take some time to grab it with the other hand.

Yeah. About a second.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

You remember those thieves that Shinobu successfully KOed with anesthesia? In the scene where Mikoto meets Shinobu for the very first time? Later in the same scene, Shinobu expressed a willingness to kill those thieves through burning down the entire building they were in. I don't think Shinobu was joking there, and it does show a darker side to her.

Actually, that was just being played for laughs. I don't she's the type that would burn a bunch of thugs to death.

Trusting Telestina the way Mikoto did was also risky. But at least Telestina was in jail, so there's reason to think she wouldn't have lethal poison-in-candy on her. Aritomi was not in jail. There's no knowing what's in the drug he threw to Shinobu to inject into Mikoto.

Like I said, it's Shinobu that she has to trust. Mikoto can trust Shinobu the same way she can trust Telestina.

You're wrong. She could have chosen to take a slight risk, and used electricity. There is a possibility that she could have subdued Aritomi while successfully capturing the data stick.

Was there a risk in taking this action? Yes.

But is there a much graver and severe risk in taking the action that Mikoto did take? Yes, there definitely is.

Like I said, I think it's fair to say Shinobu knew what the drug was, so the risk was just as much risk of Febri dying because she couldn't get the information in time. This is the only lead Mikoto knows she has.

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Shinobue knew so little more than Misaka that it makes no difference.

Makes no difference to what? Shinobu will know doubt know a lot more and Mikoto will no doubt assume so even if by chance she doesn't.

After a while of observing Misaka and probably talking with Aritomi she figured that much out. That's after she had already inserted it into Misaka. There's no possible way she could have known what it was with nothing to go by but what colour it was.

Just observing her wouldn't have been any indicator and now you're assuming Shinobu talked to Aritomi but you won't assume she knew what the drug was? It's perfectly reasonable to assume Shinobu knew what the drug was if she's been around them long enough to know the type of resources they have and the protocol they work under.

That's still much less risk than trusting a guy who tried to murder her to just give up something once she's lost all leverage. She wouldn't need to torture him at all, she could have threatened him or more likely just take him to Anti-Skill and have them say "We won't give you a life sentence if you tell us how to fix Febri"

In two days? I'd say the risk is about the same if she trusts Shinobu's judgement.

[Ilidsor]

Originally Posted by Haak

Like I said, I think it's fair to say Shinobu knew what the drug was, so the risk was just as much risk of Febri dying because she couldn't get the information in time. This is the only lead Mikoto knows she has.

This is not a lead at all. This is like going to a hostage negotiation dropping your gun and letting them take you hostage as well on the hopes they'll decide to release the other person.

Makes no difference to what? Shinobu will know doubt know a lot more and Mikoto will no doubt assume so even if by chance she doesn't.

Again, you're ignoring how Shinobu had nothing to go on but the colour of the drug to know what it was. That's a laughable amount of information to risk someone's life on.

Just observing her wouldn't have been any indicator and now you're assuming Shinobu talked to Aritomi but you won't assume she knew what the drug was? It's perfectly reasonable to assume Shinobu knew what the drug was if she's been around them long enough to know the type of resources they have and the protocol they work under.

If Shinobu had seen that drug before than why would Aritomi have had to explain what it would do to her?

In two days? I'd say the risk is about the same if she trusts Shinobu's judgement.

If there was the slightest reason to believe that Febri actually would have gotten the cure from Aritomi then yes it would have been the same risk. But it wasn't even close. There would have been at least a chance to get something by holding the guy captive.

[Hiss13]

Originally Posted by Haak

Yeah. About a second.

Guess what. I re-watched that part of the episode and paid attention to the timer since the last number I mentioned was an estimate from memory. Less than one second. That was all it took. So, now...let me see you explaining how it is possible for Aritomi to react in that amount of time when all Mikoto would need to do was speed into him and knock him over.

[LazyHunter]

Well, when Mikoto did that Volt Tackle everyone in the room (including Febri, who was right next to her hanging of her hand) did the anime-classic scene of "so fast I didn't even see her move", so I guess I'm on the side that Mikoto was being stupid for the sake of the plot. Really, she's lucky the guy didn't pull out his handgun and shoot her in the head while she was paralyzed.

[Flere821]

Originally Posted by Shinhwa

Learn that he shouldn't really leave his characters in other people's hands. The feeling that Kamachi gives and what Nagai gives are totally different.

To be fair, most of the time Kamachi lets someone else writes about Mikoto it turned out alright. The vending machine SS and the 'A Certain Collaboration' SS was pretty good IMO. Railgun S is the exception rather than the rule.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Haak

Like I said, it's Shinobu that she has to trust.

No, she also has to trust Aritomi. There's no way Shinobu can simply look at that drug, and quickly know 100% if there's poison in it or not.

But honestly, this is almost beside the point. Even if Mikoto assumes that Aritomi is being honest here, there's a huge, massive risk in her agreeing to have herself get paralyzed right in front of him.

Who's to say that Aritomi won't crack a big villainous smile and say "I told you the truth about the drug. But I never said anything about not shooting you. Bye-bye, Railgun."?

Or even if he isn't willing to kill her, he could have Mikoto picked up and carted away for all sorts of possible experiments. I mean, the guy is a scientist of highly questionable morals, so it's hardly unthinkable that he could choose to do that.


Mikoto took a truly insane risk here. She really did.

Just observing her wouldn't have been any indicator and now you're assuming Shinobu talked to Aritomi but you won't assume she knew what the drug was? It's perfectly reasonable to assume Shinobu knew what the drug was if she's been around them long enough to know the type of resources they have and the protocol they work under.

You don't need great resources to inject some poison into a greenish-colored liquid. Good grief, man, you can poison someone with laundry detergent.

There is no real reason to think that Shinobu would 100% know what the drug is. This is a frankly silly assumption that you're trying to pass off as reasonable.

Originally Posted by LazyHunter

Well, when Mikoto did that Volt Tackle everyone in the room (including Febri, who was right next to her hanging of her hand) did the anime-classic scene of "so fast I didn't even see her move", so I guess I'm on the side that Mikoto was being stupid for the sake of the plot. Really, she's lucky the guy didn't pull out his handgun and shoot her in the head while she was paralyzed.

You know, I really have to laugh at that scene now that I think about it. It actually discredits the end of Episode 22 even more than it already was.

Yeah, if Mikoto can act fast enough from that distance to prevent Aritomi from shooting himself, then it stands to reason she could also act fast enough at the end of Episode 22 to subdue Aritomi and capture the data disk.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

No, she also has to trust Aritomi. There's no way Shinobu can simply look at that drug, and quickly know 100% if there's poison in it or not.

But honestly, this is almost beside the point. Even if Mikoto assumes that Aritomi is being honest here, there's a huge, massive risk in her agreeing to have herself get paralyzed right in front of him.

Who's to say that Aritomi won't crack a big villainous smile and say "I told you the truth about the drug. But I never said anything about not shooting you. Bye-bye, Railgun."?

Or even if he isn't willing to kill her, he could have Mikoto picked up and carted away for all sorts of possible experiments. I mean, the guy is a scientist of highly questionable morals, so it's hardly unthinkable that he could choose to do that.


Mikoto took a truly insane risk here. She really did.




You don't need great resources to inject some poison into a greenish-colored liquid. Good grief, man, you can poison someone with laundry detergent.

There is no real reason to think that Shinobu would 100% know what the drug is. This is a frankly silly assumption that you're trying to pass off as reasonable.




You know, I really have to laugh at that scene now that I think about it. It actually discredits the end of Episode 22 even more than it already was.

Yeah, if Mikoto can act fast enough from that distance to prevent Aritomi from shooting himself, then it stands to reason she could also act fast enough at the end of Episode 22 to subdue Aritomi and capture the data disk.

I think the point is this: Mikoto does insane things to protect the people she likes. She isn't smart. She's an idiot. It's the same, I'll sacrifice myself for you all deal. I realize that right after that later, she said there was an idiot who would sacrifice herself when talking to Aritomi, but in the end she had absolutely no choice. In other words, she's like Touma. What would he have done? She's trying to be him. I thought that was obvious... :__:

Originally Posted by Misaka Mikoto

"Believing it'll be fulfilled is the only way, huh?"

This reinforces my point. This is why she ate the chocolate. This is also why she took the chemical. Touma is the one who made her feel like that. Not to mention there's the whole, maybe I'm only popular because I have the title Railgun... sounds suspiciously comparable to

Spoiler:

maybe I'm only useful because I have the title Imagine Breaker...

Also,

Originally Posted by Misaka Mikoto

"Do it. It's for Febri.

In the end, two things are obvious to me now. :__: 1. Kami-yan disease is spreading to other protagonists. 2. Mikoto definitely took what Kamijou said to her to heart and is living by it now. This resolves that question in my opinion mainly because Mikoto chooses to believe in it. That's exactly what Kamijou does. It really isn't any different.

Since the basis for her actions are Kamijou's I have even more reason to believe Kamachi intended for this to happen.

[Ilidsor]

Originally Posted by dniv

I think the point is this: Mikoto does insane things to protect the people she likes. She isn't smart. She's an idiot. It's the same, I'll sacrifice myself for you all deal.

Yes Misaka is an idiot. The 3rd level 5 who gets out of countless situations with quick thinking, who speaks several languages, attends a very elite boarding school in the most advanced city in the world, and is known for her inventive use of her powers... Is an idiot.

I realize that right after that later, she said there was an idiot who would sacrifice herself when talking to Aritomi, but in the end she had absolutely no choice. In other words, she's like Touma. What would he have done? She's trying to be him. I thought that was obvious... :__:

Being a good person doesn't mean you have to be stupid.

We've gone over what she could have done again and again. Anything. Anything at all that would have given her the slightest chance of saving Febri.

Since the basis for her actions are Kamijou's I have even more reason to believe Kamachi intended for this to happen.

When has Touma ever done anything like this? When has he ever decided to let the bad guy beat him on the off chance that the bad guy/girl will go out of his way to live up to his word?

Why are you so convinced Kamachi had a lot of control over this arc? He clearly didn't do anything more than supply the basic ideas.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Yes Misaka is an idiot. The 3rd level 5 who gets out of countless situations with quick thinking, who speaks several languages, attends a very elite boarding school in the most advanced city in the world, and is known for her inventive use of her powers... Is an idiot.



Being a good person doesn't mean you have to be stupid.

We've gone over what she could have done again and again. Anything. Anything at all that would have given her the slightest chance of saving Febri.



When has Touma ever done anything like this? When has he ever decided to let the bad guy beat him on the off chance that the bad guy/girl will go out of his way to live up to his word?

Why are you so convinced Kamachi had a lot of control over this arc? He clearly didn't do anything more than supply the basic ideas.

When writing this I was literally watching the episodes, noting stuff, writing it, then continuing to watch and so on... are you sure you actually watched the arc very carefully or saw it more than one time with subtitles?

I'll admit that before I saw it with subtitles I didn't understand a lot of what was going on compared to my current understanding of things.

By Idiot I meant like a Certain Idiot... I didn't mean like a literal idiot. Idealistic type of idiot rather than a dumb type of idiot. Kamijou is considered an idiot by her for the exact same reason...

NT 7...

Spoiler:

He trusted Rensa to save Yakumi's life?

That's one example.

There are others that aren't as extreme though.

I feel like Kamachi helped create a lot of the major plot-points while how they were executed were up to the staff. However, I feel like Mikoto wanting to emulate Kamijou's idealism is a major plot point.

[Xero8420]

Funny how she sees Touma as her god damn hero who saved her from her despair back in Sisters arc, and then she took him as an example to live up with it. Whoever wanna blame Mikoto's "stupidity" should better off put the blame on Touma & his Kami-yan disease instead.

LOL! The Kami-yan disease is really that infectious.