Shakugan no Shana S OVA Series and Season 3 Anticipation Thread

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by FFrank227

As of June 10th, the front page of www.shakugan.com has been updated with new information. Not exactly sure what it says, but I do believe the top part states that volume 19 of the light novel will be released on September 10th, 2009. On the bottom part it says something about season III/movie and August 10th, 2009. Correct me if I'm wrong.

That bottom part is talking about the third Noizi Ito artbook coming out in August. And, based on the cover, I'm going to assume that Volume 19 is not the last novel. (Edit: See correction below -- was going to quickly...) The image on the right says that a new Shana anime project is coming this Fall.

[FFrank227]

I see so it was the artbook that's coming out on August 10th. Thanks for the correction!

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Westlo

The only thing it proves is that it sold well, which you know is not what people are talking about when they say how bad it did

Erm....that was a week ago? A little late, no?

And anyways, you missed my point by quite a bit. Whether or not we here in the states think it did well, obviously people in Japan thought it was good. They're shelling out about $60/65 yen per disc for only 2-3 episodes at most. Their opinion is obviously "we like it"; that's their opinion. The people here in the states who whine about animes being bad and treating it like fact by blaming the staff and calling them "sucky" or "bad" are also ignoring the fact that their thoughts are opinions. If they like it in Japan, well, they're probably going to make more then, case-in-point. *points to title*

I'll certainly admit that myself I haven't liked all the shows in Japan that have done well in sales (in particular Gundam SEED Destiny, as some may know), but that just goes to show that my opinions are nothing more than such. You don't pay so much for DVDs with small episode counts for a series you don't like, unless you're a mindless fanboy. (and honestly, I think we all can agree that those kinds of people aren't a majority) So good sales = people liked it, which in turn = a good chance for a sequel. Especially since they have plenty more novel material to animate.

[Tokkan]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

And, based on the cover, I'm going to assume that Volume 19 is not the last novel.

Except the covers on that page only go up to volume 17.

[Ryuou]

Hmm...I'm not sure if I'd be happy if the 19th volume is the last one. I'd like for my favorite series to continue, but the series getting dragged on isn't good either. Having not read the novels yet, I can't form a good opinion in this area.

If I could jump into the debate on DVD sales and its acceptance in Japan, I don't think you can take those sales as pure correlation to how well fans in Japan thought the series was. Fan-service sells, seemingly regardless of how well it's done, and I think Otaku would and do shell out money on DVDs regardless of how well they thought the series was actually done. As long as it has what they want. Not that they can’t also think a series was done well, I think they’re two separate purchasing forces.

I would think SnS would have less of these buyers though, as its amount of fan service is relatively low compared to some others.

[Terminator98]

Light Novel 19? Being the last? No, not yet. I think it'd be best until we got to around light novel 23-25 until we close. So we can have a solid, good story and don't have a rushed ending.

At the same time, we can then have a sweet final SnS season 3 which will close the show.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Tokkan

Except the covers on that page only go up to volume 17.

Sorry -- you're right. I saw "new" with a date that looked about right, but it was 2008, not 2009. So discard that.

Originally Posted by Ryuou

If I could jump into the debate on DVD sales and its acceptance in Japan, I don't think you can take those sales as pure correlation to how well fans in Japan thought the series was. Fan-service sells, seemingly regardless of how well it's done, and I think Otaku would and do shell out money on DVDs regardless of how well they thought the series was actually done. As long as it has what they want. Not that they can’t also think a series was done well, I think they’re two separate purchasing forces.

I would think SnS would have less of these buyers though, as its amount of fan service is relatively low compared to some others.

This is a non-starter as an argument and should probably be avoided (independent of the fact that Shana II wasn't a "fanservice" show). You're saying that "sales" don't correlate to "quality", but quality is totally subjective.

Merchandise sales are an objective measurement of a show's merchandise's popularity, and one of the only objective measures we have that ties into financial success. We aren't in a position to judge the motivations of those making the purchases, but we do know that producers are in this business to make money. So if a show's merchandise sells well, we can assume that, as in this case, producers will take that as a sign that they can green-light more of the same. And, at that point, this idea of "objective good" doesn't matter -- if it's popular enough and it sells, and so they produce more, then that's the only important metric. People can debate "quality" until the cows come home but, as long as people keep buying it because it gives them what they want from the show, it's all just semantics for wannabe critics.

If a show gives people what they want from it, and so people buy it (especially, as it was pointed out, at R2 prices), it's not a bad show to them. As I've said before, there's no wrong way or reason to enjoy anime.

[Ryuou]

SnS isn't a fanservice series, but in no way does it lack its moments (like I mentioned). I was really thinking of ZnT, since it came up, but didn't feel like putting it in there. My comments weren't directed at the DVD sales of only the SnS series. Quality is totally subjective, and I don’t remember saying that it wasn't. And fanservice, as I believe you know, isn't only echhi-ness and panty-shots (which SnS has as well though).

I was saying that sales don't necessarily correlate to fans’ take on a series' quality. I think "quality" and "fanservice" are two separate and major forces behind purchases. Both, of course, are subjective (the second less so). Not that they can’t both weigh into a purchase, and not that there is a right and wrong/good and bad to it.

There were several comments saying that because the DVDs sold well (for any series really), that's a reflection of how well the fans in Japan thought the quality of the series was. All I was saying, was that's not necessarily the case. There could be countless reasons behind why someone would purchase the DVDs for a series that have nothing to do how well they thought it was done.

You seem to be criticizing me for things I didn't say relentless.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Ryuou

There were several comments saying that because the DVDs sold well (for any series really), that's a reflection of how well the fans in Japan thought the quality of the series was. All I was saying, was that's not necessarily the case. There could be countless reasons behind why someone would purchase the DVDs for a series that have nothing to do how well they thought it was done.

You seem to be criticizing me for things I didn't say relentless.

But you just said the very same thing again, perhaps unknowingly. Maybe it's just in how you look at it. The problem is, I'm not really sure how to explain it...

Let me try this approach: "Quality" is a loaded word. If I buy a show, it's obviously because I like it (I wouldn't spend the money otherwise). But you postulate here that I may buy it irrespective of how I feel about its "quality". If this is true, then you are suggesting, by extension, that I may like low-quality shows. Now this has turned into a "judgement call": (for the sake of the argument) who are you to tell me that I have poor tastes? Do you see how this can turn personal very quickly? This is why I said it's a non-starter as an argument and should probably be avoided, even if on a purely logical level there's some truth to it.

The metric of primary importance to this discussion isn't "quality", it's "popularity". People need to tread very lightly on making assumptions about a show's "quality", because the factors that you consider most important may not be in alignment with those who enjoy the show. For the vast majority of people I've seen on these boards, "poor quality" is only a cute euphemism for "I didn't like it", and a way of reflecting one's unmet personal expectations back onto the show, its writers and its producers.

In other words, on the relentlessflame Personal Quality Index (TM), I give every show I purchased a 10/10! :P Granted that's not what you mean by "quality", but everyone feels that way on a certain level. When it comes right down to it, quality will always be subjective.

I hope that helps explain what I'm trying to get at... I don't think we're totally disagreeing with each other, I'm just not sure if you realized the other ways those comments can be seen.

[Terminator98]

Lol guys, different people have differnt ways of interpreting words. Anyways... relentless, someone may buy a DVD not because he likes the show, but because he sees the nice box or is interested and would know if the show is good or not.

Anywas, I'm not getting deep in those "quality" debates... XD

Eh... isn't this off topic guys?

Anyways... About the 3rd season... I'm, again, a bit afraid that we'll have fillers, as there isn't much to put in the 3rd season.... (using the novels as base) most of the things have been shown, and I doubt the rest can cover 24 episodes. It'd be more like 12 episodes here in the ZnT style.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Terminator98

Anyways... relentless, someone may buy a DVD not because he likes the show, but because he sees the nice box or is interested and would know if the show is good or not.

Probably a bit less so when you're talking about Japanese DVDs where the cost averages about $20/episode. An even so, that might explain the first volume, but what about by the time you get to Volume 8? Or Volume 8 of the Second Season? But regardless...

Originally Posted by Terminator98

About the 3rd season... I'm, again, a bit afraid that we'll have fillers, as there isn't much to put in the 3rd season.... (using the novels as base) most of the things have been shown, and I doubt the rest can cover 24 episodes. It'd be more like 12 episodes here in the ZnT style.

Well, they haven't yet said whether it'd be a TV season; so far it's just an "anime project". But if it is a TV season, it looks as though they'd have 5 novels to animate, which is about the same as what they covered last season. I suppose it's all about pacing. And hopefully by now fans have gotten used to the concept of their being some original content in this overall adaptation, so maybe they'll be a bit less surprised/pissy about it this time? We'll see...

[Game8910]

they said the magazine came on june 10th....its the 11th now...is there any more info revealed?

[Terminator98]

Well, they haven't yet said whether it'd be a TV season; so far it's just an "anime project". But if it is a TV season, it looks as though they'd have 5 novels to animate, which is about the same as what they covered last season. I suppose it's all about pacing. And hopefully by now fans have gotten used to the concept of their being some original content in this overall adaptation, so maybe they'll be a bit less surprised/pissy about it this time? We'll see...

I'll be a bit dissapointed if ever the future 3rd season is like the 2nd one. I do not want that much fillers. It would be better if there was more... action, a bit like in season 1, and more drama, not just "love problems and jealeauosy". Season 1 had the perfect mix, and at least in there, the fillers showed important things (i.e Shana's background).

[Game8910]

Originally Posted by Terminator98

I'll be a bit dissapointed if ever the future 3rd season is like the 2nd one. I do not want that much fillers. It would be better if there was more... action, a bit like in season 1, and more drama, not just "love problems and jealeauosy". Season 1 had the perfect mix, and at least in there, the fillers showed important things (i.e Shana's background).

no, season 1 had no fillers, they just jumbled most of the novels together. The only filler of season 1 started around the episode wilhelmina showed up

[Terminator98]

Ah, I always thought that episodes 14-16 around were fillers, you know, where they talk about shana's past.

Anyways... "crosses fingers for no fillers"

[Tokkan]

Originally Posted by Game8910

no, season 1 had no fillers, they just jumbled most of the novels together. The only filler of season 1 started around the episode wilhelmina showed up

The pool episode was anime original.

[Marcus H.]

Okay, I've discovered that Eternal Song is based on X.

BTW, can I ask which books were covered by each season of the Anime?
(And what is covered by Books 0, S and SII?)

[Tokkan]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Okay, I've discovered that Eternal Song is based on X.

BTW, can I ask which books were covered by each season of the Anime?
(And what is covered by Books 0, S and SII?)

Season 1 covered books I through to VIII and used parts from IX as base for the anime original ending arc. Season 2 salvaged leftovers from IX, covered the game and novels XI throught to XIV and included a good amount of anime original material as well as the sidestory "Milestone" from S.

My guess is that if we do get a third season, in order to make the proper corrections to allow for them to adapt books XVI onwards and actually make considerable sense, they'll have to make the first arc an anime original arc set during the first or second season to include all the stuff that's supposed to foreshadow the events of the current arc in the novels (which would as of book XIX have spanned 4 novels, the longest story arc in the series). This of course comes off as lazily pasting in new backstory, and they're better off remaking the entire show from the beginning.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Tokkan

This of course comes off as lazily pasting in new backstory, and they're better off remaking the entire show from the beginning.

I'm going to vote a big "no" to this suggestion, for my part. That's sort of screwing over all the people who bought the first two seasons and asking them buy a whole bunch of it all over again to get "the true story". I'm sure this new arc is very important, but it's not as if all the stuff they already did cover is for naught. I'm sure they can find a way of working it into the story somehow; the way they did it in the novels isn't the only way to arrive at the same destination and still have it make sense. It's just a matter of being creative. I do realize that "creative adaptations of the original works" have gone out of style these days around here, but I vastly prefer that to a premature remake of a story that isn't by any means old or out-dated. I don't need to watch the early chapters all over again. So if you asked me, I'd vote "hell no" on the remake idea; we're 17 DVDs into the show; bring on part 3. (That's all in my opinion, of course.)

[Midonin]

This isn't the first show I've seen around these boards where people want a remake of the entire show. It's saying stuff like that with an undue sense of entitlement that comes across as...well, it reflects some of the less appealing traits of fans. Not to mention the reason people want things to be remade is to be "closer to the original source!" even if what was obtained before was perfectly watchable, even if different.