Madoka Magica - General Discussion

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Homura's world is not a Lotus Eather. That was the dream world inside her soul game. The world at the end of the movie is the real world, only rewritten by her magic.

Was it?

@Sayaka's sandbag - You need to calm down.

[Sayaka's sandbag]

Originally Posted by Solace

Was it?

@Sayaka's sandbag - You need to calm down.

Can't get much calmer than I am now, because you know? I already am.

[Solace]

Good. Now understand that I'm one of those "vocal minority with ego issues" people who thinks Rebellion had a poor ending and would rather not see the franchise milked for cash. You can have your opinion....just, try not to be so pushy about it. We're all friends here.

[Sayaka's sandbag]

Originally Posted by Solace

Good. Now understand that I'm one of those "vocal minority with ego issues" people who thinks Rebellion had a poor ending and would rather not see the franchise milked for cash. You can have your opinion....just, try not to be so pushy about it. We're all friends here.

Not really pushy, just stating what I see and calling it out is all.

Realistically though, even if the series does get another season/film I'd hardly call it milking. If you want to see a milked series have a look at Bleach, Naruto, DBZ, One Piece and similar series, those are milked. Not a one cour season with a movie, that's only getting started so you've nothing to worry about. ^^

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Homura's world is not a Lotus Eather. That was the dream world inside her soul game. The world at the end of the movie is the real world, only rewritten by her magic.

I think I get what Solace is saying. Perhaps the Incubators are operating at a very high level here.

I recall an episode pf Star Trek: TNG where Holodeck!Moriarty appeared to have overcome his programming, and assert himself into the real physical world. But it was actually all an elaborate ruse by the Enterprise crew to deal with their Moriarty issue for good, while also giving him the closest thing possible to what he wanted. The truth is that the Enterprise crew used simulations within simulations to make it appear to Holodeck!Moriarty that he had successfully overcome his programming to become a real flesh-and-blood human. In reality, they simply shifted him into a great simulation that would run continuously for decades, making him think he was now living a normal life in the universe of Star Trek, when really it was still a simulation.

So... did Kyuubey pull a Picard? Make Madoka, Homura, and all the other Puella Magi think they had broken out of his simulation, and defeated him once and for all, but the reality is he was using simulations within simulations?

I'm not sure if I'd want any sequel to Rebellion to go this way, but they could probably pull it off if they wanted to.

[dcarr198989]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Are these random lines, or are at least some of them cases of one character addressing the character that spoke before (i.e. is Hitomi addressing Sayaka, and is Mami addressing Kyuubey?)

If they're not all random lines, then maybe they point towards Sayaka reading something that constitutes a big reveal concerning Kyuubey and what the Incubators are capable of. Nagisa says "This smells like a conspiracy!" to what the Illuminators have been keeping secret. Hitomi is fearful of what letting this secret out might do. Mami is a little upset with Kyuubey for how he continually keeps secrets to himself.

Now, Homura's final line... perhaps this big secret is going to be used against her. Maybe by the Incubators, or maybe by one or more of the Puella Magi, or maybe by all of the above.


If it is the Incubators challenging Homura directly, then Madoka's "fairies" may well be referring to the Incubators, as Kazu-kun suspects. I guess it's possible that the fairies are referring to the clara dolls, if they decide to rebel against Homura, perhaps due to Kyubey's secret being revealed.

Finally, "fairies" might actually be referring to Sayaka and Nagisa, or even puella magi in general. God has angels, Madoka has fairies, if you catch my drift.

"Will you save me? Will you save me too, Fairies?" - My reading of that is that the Fairies aren't the first "you" here, given the "too" in the 2nd question. This line might mean "Will you save me (Kyubey)? Will you save me too, (Sayaka and Nagisa)?"

Angel would be a completely different word. Tenshi and yosei are completely different.

Originally Posted by woxx

In original まどか「助けてくれるの? あなたたちも、妖精さん?」

妖精 - Yosei

フェアリー japanese "fairy" definition, there is nothing like that

It's more likely Yosei than Fairies (and clara dolls fit to yosei describtion perfectly). If Madoka referes to Homura in first questions, 妖精さん have to be her dolls. Why would she ask kyubey two times?
If she doesn't ask Homura, then i'm wrong.

more correct translation:
Madoka - Will you help me? And what about you, fairies(yosei)?

I was actually on the 4chan thread that this came out of. I argued the same points.

In the scene, Madoka is staring down a giant witch. In my opinion, the previous line is essentially her typical witch extermination quote. Notice however, Madoka stops in the middle of it. She then asks Homura if she her and her yosei (bewitching spirits sometimes known for playing pranks) for assistance. Why? Because she no longer has to bear the burdens of despair on her own.

This also explains why there was a guy who said "It looks like MadoHomu is about to begin" There is literally nothing else in the video (granted we're relying on descriptions) that would give us that impression. It is strongly implied to be Homura. Keep in mind, this is NOT a trailer and theyre only letting the limited few people who see this see it once. These are probably 10-30 seconds of new footage spliced in with 3.5 minutes of ballet. This isnt a trailer, it's a storyboard collection. These are ideas that will be pursued. Let's be honest, MadoHomu reconciliation was honestly never a question and our question should be WHEN/HOW and not IF.
Who is the new witch like creature?
IMO, Homura's soul gem was rebuilt using the power Law of Cycle. I assume she used the Kriemhild from inside Madoka when she split her (A lizard girl pulled half of God down to earth) The angelic part of Madokami was pushed away. In the end she will most likely become the new "Kriemhild". That seems to be the dualistic direction theyve been pushing with the last movie.

Note: Kyubey also said human emotion is too dangerous to experiment with at the end of Rebellion, suggesting he's going to give up exploiting humans.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by dcarr198989

IMO, Homura's soul gem was rebuilt using the power Law of Cycle.

I doubt it. Homura specifically said the only thing she took from the Law of Cycles was the records of Madoka from before she became the Law of Cycles. Basically, the normal Madoka. This goes in the line with this:

A lizard girl pulled half of God down to earth

The lizard girl is Homura, and the "half of god" she pulled to earth is the normal Madoka. This is what Homura calls "the records of Madoka from before she became the Law of Cycles." Those "records" are the normal Madoka, half of god.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think I get what Solace is saying. Perhaps the Incubators are operating at a very high level here.

I recall an episode pf Star Trek: TNG where Holodeck!Moriarty appeared to have overcome his programming, and assert himself into the real physical world. But it was actually all an elaborate ruse by the Enterprise crew to deal with their Moriarty issue for good, while also giving him the closest thing possible to what he wanted. The truth is that the Enterprise crew used simulations within simulations to make it appear to Holodeck!Moriarty that he had successfully overcome his programming to become a real flesh-and-blood human. In reality, they simply shifted him into a great simulation that would run continuously for decades, making him think he was now living a normal life in the universe of Star Trek, when really it was still a simulation.

So... did Kyuubey pull a Picard? Make Madoka, Homura, and all the other Puella Magi think they had broken out of his simulation, and defeated him once and for all, but the reality is he was using simulations within simulations?

I'm not sure if I'd want any sequel to Rebellion to go this way, but they could probably pull it off if they wanted to.

If they worked with a new writer, I wouldn't be surprised if they used a ridiculous setup like that. Personally, I think that sort of story would suck.

[dcarr198989]

You're assuming Homura knew what she was doing. When has Homura ever known what she was doing? I say that as a huge Homu-fan.

When she pulled Madoka down, she was able to create a labrynth that covered the universe. Who was the only witch who could cover a universe with a labrynth? Kriemhild Gretchen - Madoka's witch form. The dark orb also resembles the crown on Kriemhild's witch's kiss in the PSP game, a contrast to Madokami's "Eternal Feminine" symbol in the movie. After pulling half of her down, she's gained access to Kriemhild's power. Hence why she is capable of performing things reserved for labrynths. Her actions were done out of ai yo for Madoka, but it never explained why she was able to rewrite the universe. She probably doesnt understand it either.

Inucurry has an unused idea for Walpurgisnact and kriemhild to fuse and create a stronger witch that resembled a sand timer. Homulilly's final form for Rebllion was altered to look more similar to Walpurgisnacht. This witch is going to be using that same concept, but it will be Homulilly and Kriemhild. Calling it now.

[Kazu-kun]

^ I always try not to base my speculations on speculations. That just doesn't make sense to me.

So my interpretation of Homura's world and her nature is based on what is actually said in the movie. Homura didn't steal any power from Madoka to rewrite the universe. She managed to pull it off because she used the power of her love. That's what she said and I'll take her word for it until proved wrong. The only thing she took from the Law of Cycles was the normal Madoka. Whether the Law of Cycles is still functioning even without this element is anyone's guess (and I won't speculate on that).

As for Kriemhild, it doesn't factor at all in the movie. No one ever makes even an allusion to it in the movie as far as I can tell.

You assume Homura doesn't know what she's doing, but she seems to know what's going on rather well. She's even aware that her world might start to crumble at some point, and fully expects Sayaka and the others to become her enemies when that happens.

[woxx]

Originally Posted by Sayaka's sandbag

This stigma of "I hope they never make more Madoka because Urobuchi is the only one who can write a story for the series" is... Stupid, just plain and simply stupid. There are many other competent writers who could come in and take over writing the story, hell, Shinbo helped out with the ending of Rebellion with just a suggestion and it turned out to be excellent, oh wait... That's right, most (Vocal minority with ego issues) don't like the ending because "Oh, it ruins Homura's character", "IT MAKES NO SENSE!!!", "STOP MILKING THE SERIES!!!" ect ect.

Well tough tits any ways, a sequel will come even if you don't want it to, and to boot it'll more than likely have a new writer if Urobuchi commits to what he has said in the past by handing over the reigns to another writer, hell, I hope that Masaki Hiramatsu gets the role, Kazumi Magica's story is pretty fantastic, at least after 2nd volume.

I like Rebellion's ending very much, that's why I don't want more. I literally don't care about "milking" and ignore all kind of posts with it, this definition by itself is totally stupid. Urobuchi said in some interview that Rebellion was extremely hard to write it. It has a very open ending, but it's not a sequel bait at all.
Now there is simply no good and original scenario left. This probably is the main reason why they don't announce anything.

Also there was some different original shaft's project - prism nana. They showed some teasers long ago in 2012 but there is still no anime series. That's why current madoka's concept movie doesn't mean anything until further announcements.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by woxx

Also there was some different original shaft's project - prism nana. They showed some teasers long ago in 2012 but there is still no anime series. That's why current madoka's concept movie doesn't mean anything until further announcements.

Prism Nana was some short vids designed to promote a Pachinko Game. It's not something SHAFT did purely for shits and giggles.

The current Madoka concept movie doesn't confirm anything, but really, it's a bit odd for SHAFT to make it (and make it like what it is) if they don't intend to have more Madoka anime. So I'm inclined to think this concept movie indicates that SHAFT is probably leaning towards more Madoka anime, anyway.

[ilcane87]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The current Madoka concept movie doesn't confirm anything, but really, it's a bit odd for SHAFT to make it (and make it like what it is) if they don't intend to have more Madoka anime. So I'm inclined to think this concept movie indicates that SHAFT is probably leaning towards more Madoka anime, anyway.

Not like the sales alone weren't indication enough that it would get a sequel eventually, I might add; this movie just basically sealed the deal.

It's in a all-but-confirmed state right now, same as Yuuki Yuuna S2; at this point the real question is "when", not "if".

[Sayaka's sandbag]

Originally Posted by woxx

I like Rebellion's ending very much, that's why I don't want more. I literally don't care about "milking" and ignore all kind of posts with it, this definition by itself is totally stupid. Urobuchi said in some interview that Rebellion was extremely hard to write it. It has a very open ending, but it's not a sequel bait at all.
Now there is simply no good and original scenario left. This probably is the main reason why they don't announce anything.

Also there was some different original shaft's project - prism nana. They showed some teasers long ago in 2012 but there is still no anime series. That's why current madoka's concept movie doesn't mean anything until further announcements.

Those teasers were for Rebellion if I remember right, which we got a year and a bit later...

[Sayaka's sandbag]

Originally Posted by ilcane87

Not like the sales alone weren't indication enough that it would get a sequel eventually, I might add; this movie just basically sealed the deal.

It's in a all-but-confirmed state right now, same as Yuuki Yuuna S2; at this point the real question is "when", not "if".

I completely agree with you, I'm happy to see someone with sense around here. XD

They'll announce Season 2/film 4 at the end of the Madogatari exhibitions, right now they're gathering feedback on what people think of it and are using the short film to advertise the series once again, to get people talking about PMMM... Which from my perspective seems to be working and is going accordingly to plan.

[ilcane87]

Originally Posted by Sayaka's sandbag

I completely agree with you, I'm happy to see someone with sense around here. XD

They'll announce Season 2/film 4 at the end of the Madogatari exhibitions, right now they're gathering feedback on what people think of it and are using the short film to advertise the series once again, to get people talking about PMMM... Which from my perspective seems to be working and is going accordingly to plan.

Well, since they haven't announced it so far, I expect them to take a little longer than the end of Madogatari.

They probably just wanted to wet our appetites, but still aren't far enough in production for an official announcement.

[woxx]

Originally Posted by Sayaka's sandbag

Those teasers were for Rebellion if I remember right, which we got a year and a bit later...

Rebellion was announced in 2011 right after BD release
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-to-be-trilogy
before any teaser or trailer was out

[Sayaka's sandbag]

Originally Posted by ilcane87

Well, since they haven't announced it so far, I expect them to take a little longer than the end of Madogatari.

They probably just wanted to wet our appetites, but still aren't far enough in production for an official announcement.

Suppose you're right there, Madogatari ends earlier than I remembered. My guess is for a Summer announcement, around July - August but possibly earlier, maybe even April, but no earlier.

Yeah, that's probably it.

[woxx]

Originally Posted by Sayaka's sandbag

Suppose you're right there, Madogatari ends earlier than I remembered. My guess is for a Summer announcement, around July - August but possibly earlier, maybe even April, but no earlier.

Even if they announce something in 2016, it will come out in 2018. Sorry I possibly make you angry, I just don't understand why are you so hyped over nothing.

[Sayaka's sandbag]

Originally Posted by woxx

Even if they announce something in 2016, it will come out in 2018. Sorry I possibly make you angry, I just don't understand why are you so hyped over nothing.

Oh? I'm not angry, quite the opposite in fact. But I don't understand why you're so irritated by others who voice their excitement over the continuation of the series, not to mention the need you feel to oppose anyone who has a different view or take on something... Seriously, you need to look at yourself and re-evaluate your life instead of sitting here and telling others "This won't happen because..." There will not be any more because..." "I don't want a continuation because..." how about you turn your energy into something positive?

Anyways I'll remain excited because unlike you I know that there will be a continuation, the concept trailer proves to us that Shaft want to continue and will continue the franchise and there's nothing that you can do about it. ^^

[Solace]

He's being pragmatic. That's not the same as being negative. I can't think of anyone here who, if a new movie/show was announced, would be like "more Madoka? No thanks." That doesn't mean that some of us can't express concern about what a future project might look like or if we personally think it should even be made.

You're correct, in that SHAFT will do what it wants to do regardless of what we think or say. But without an announcement, things like this (teaser?) mostly just serve to keep the franchise in the public eye. Testing the waters, basically. Do people still care about Madoka? Would they be excited for more even if the next movie/show was released two or three years from now?

If there's no real announcement of an impending (as in, next year) release, that means the soonest we'll see a movie or new show will be 2017, and that is being optimistic. I'm a big enough fan to be here when/if that future comes, but I'm aware that I'm in a dwindling group of people who still care about this franchise.