Nanoha Manga Discussion

[Kaijo]

Hmm, I always wondered about that; according to Quattro, Vivio was supposedly to be naturally almost invulnerable even without her armor on; "wouldn't have even slowed her down." It's kinda tough to make a shounen fighting series when your main character is practically invulnerable, so I guess they had to explain it away.

But she still has her barrier jacket, which looks a lot like her armor.

[LoweGear]

Einhart = Ibis Douglas. Her chest may not be big, but her heart is

*KILLED*

[Justin_Brett]

I thought it got destroyed once Nanoha blew up the Relic? Guess it's pretty much the same thing either way, though.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Hmm, I always wondered about that; according to Quattro, Vivio was supposedly to be naturally almost invulnerable even without her armor on; "wouldn't have even slowed her down." It's kinda tough to make a shounen fighting series when your main character is practically invulnerable, so I guess they had to explain it away.

But she still has her barrier jacket, which looks a lot like her armor.

The way I took it, Quattro seemed to imply that the Saint Armor is a self-defense mechanism that will activate for self-protection, so it was alright to attempt killing her. Which is how it was okay for Dieci to shoot the heli down or how Vivio managed to destroy a few Gadget Bots in the sewers the first time she debuted in StrikerS.

And she didn't have the Relic inside her during those times too, so a Relic wasn't vital to Vivio's Saint Armor.

It's probably a mild case of Retcon for Tsuzuki to scale Vivio's growth potential back to an appropriate underdog shonen heroine.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

It's probably a mild case of Retcon for Tsuzuki to scale Vivio's growth potential back to an appropriate underdog shonen heroine.

Or probably ViVio can resist those kind of attacks but still suffer from them, i mean, being able to survive any kind attack doesen't mean she's immune to pain.

either way, i'll wait for the full translation or scans, like Kaijo's said, context will be very important here.

[haiz123321]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

You'd have a point, except it was revealed that what they are doing on that planet is annual training. Meaning it's hard work and mock combat that they do every year. Also, I'd bet many of them do training in their own time.

True, but from all the anime, manga and games I've watched/read/played so far, self-training doesn't improve you a lot, if at all and has a very high chance of screwing you over big time unless you know what you're doing which is rarely the case. Annual training once a year imo, doesn't do smack. But yeah it's a manga and there is nothing realistic in a manga >.<

Probably Vivid is seen more as a sidestory, since there is no real antagonist or deep plot. It looks like just adding a couple of characters (Rio, Corona, Einhart) and allowing characters like Vivio, Nove, Lutecia, and some of the other cyborgs moments to shine. Also to explore some Belkan history and expand the world via new magic types and the DSAA. I expect Vivid to end shortly after the tournament.

It's fluff, but not entirely pointless fluff as there are some interesting bits introduced here and there. But Force would be the real continuation since it has the serious story.

Ah right

[Scarletknive]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Einhart = Ibis Douglas. Her chest may not be big, but her heart is

*GRaMDs-ed*

Fixed for you

Anyway i wonder if there is new chapter on force(or has it been already out?)?

u still forgot 1 more(if its Hyperion)

*GRaMXs-ed*

[Arkeus]

Originally Posted by haiz123321

True, but from all the anime, manga and games I've watched/read/played so far, self-training doesn't improve you a lot, if at all and has a very high chance of screwing you over big time unless you know what you're doing which is rarely the case. Annual training once a year imo, doesn't do smack. But yeah it's a manga and there is nothing realistic in a manga >.<

"Self-Training" is a relative term. Erio/Caro have *time*, time that they can use to train with lots of people.

Fate/Teana, being stuck in deskjobs, have much less times, and thus are more likely to have their ability stall/deteriorate.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Hmm, whats this?

Spoiler for :

Since Vivid is starting to become shounen-ish, might as well make a shounen based guess:
It's just a prediction, like the ones that usually popped up when someone meets a new character and sudddenly had get the "OMG she's so strong if we fight this would happen!" vision.

...though considering how strong Vivio was supposed to be, it's kinda odd for her to be at the receiving end of this

[aers]

<insert meaningful text here>

Spoiler for Naked Character:

[mechdra]

That battle could be an imaginary battle or final blow. We have to remember, Shante is concern about going against Vivio. However, we will never know.

[Blank-Mage]

Originally Posted by aers

<insert meaningful text here>

Spoiler for Naked Character:

I, uh... huh... s... guh.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by aers

<insert meaningful text here>

Spoiler for Naked Character:

Is there anything special written on that page? Because that image of Lily came out many months ago.

[haiz123321]

Originally Posted by Arkeus

"Self-Training" is a relative term. Erio/Caro have *time*, time that they can use to train with lots of people.

Fate/Teana, being stuck in deskjobs, have much less times, and thus are more likely to have their ability stall/deteriorate.

1) While it is true that Erio/Caro have a lot of free time, somehow I think anyone who could even give them a run for their money doesn't exist in their line of job since well...background characters that don't even get mentioned are your common rank and file members and therefore they aren't strong? It's just one of my personal opinions/views.
2) Really? I thought enforcers spent more time on the field since they have to go around arresting criminals and of course, those criminals will always fight back 99% of the time so their senses won't get dulled that fast or rather, they will improve instead.

Originally Posted by aers

<insert meaningful text here>

Spoiler for Naked Character:

Must...not...pass...out...from...hhhnnnggg!

[al103]

Originally Posted by haiz123321

2) Really? I thought enforcers spent more time on the field since they have to go around arresting criminals and of course, those criminals will always fight back 99% of the time so their senses won't get dulled that fast or rather, they will improve instead.

Work of any successful detective where success is not based on luck is 90-99% desk job where you find clues, analyze things, talk with witness, etc, etc, etc.

Originally Posted by haiz123321

1) While it is true that Erio/Caro have a lot of free time, somehow I think anyone who could even give them a run for their money doesn't exist in their line of job since well...background characters that don't even get mentioned are your common rank and file members and therefore they aren't strong? It's just one of my personal opinions/views.

It's not so, just look all that wild and angry fauna in Aces. One day you capture stupid poachers with simple handguns, other you capture hit squad that is for rare breed of some Giant Man-eater Monster Of The Week - and who will give you more trouble: that hit squad or monster is very good question.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by haiz123321

True, but from all the anime, manga and games I've watched/read/played so far, self-training doesn't improve you a lot, if at all and has a very high chance of screwing you over big time unless you know what you're doing which is rarely the case. Annual training once a year imo, doesn't do smack. But yeah it's a manga and there is nothing realistic in a manga >.<

Except you are forgetting their devices. As Nanoha showed, you can self-train and improve quite a bit, using your device to drain your mana and provide VR training. There's no reason to think the other devices would lack this capability. Plus, training also means coming up with new spells, and it seems a lot of their new spells were self-developed. Nanoha's SLB was, after all.

So I wouldn't completely compare this other series. :P

[haiz123321]

Originally Posted by al103

Work of any successful detective where success is not based on luck is 90-99% desk job where you find clues, analyze things, talk with witness, etc, etc, etc.


It's not so, just look all that wild and angry fauna in Aces. One day you capture stupid poachers with simple handguns, other you capture hit squad that is for rare breed of some Giant Man-eater Monster Of The Week - and who will give you more trouble: that hit squad or monster is very good question.

Ahahaha trouble indeed

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Except you are forgetting their devices. As Nanoha showed, you can self-train and improve quite a bit, using your device to drain your mana and provide VR training. There's no reason to think the other devices would lack this capability. Plus, training also means coming up with new spells, and it seems a lot of their new spells were self-developed. Nanoha's SLB was, after all.

So I wouldn't completely compare this other series. :P

Damn, really? I thought spells were well, programmed into it as part of the device or something. I'm really losing my touch with this series >.< The self training you're referring to, was it the thing she did at the beginning of A's with the magic bullet thing?

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by haiz123321

The self training you're referring to, was it the thing she did at the beginning of A's with the magic bullet thing?

Part of it, Nanoha in her early years was on constant training, during free time, during night and even while attending school as Raising Heart can perform training and magic study programs diretcly into Nanoha's brain. As a nice side effect, she become a math wizard in her class xD!

[Demi.]

I wouldn't say all devices can self train. It's obvious Nanoha's device is very special and far more vocal than other devices. She's the only one ever seen to receive training from her device, which the movie put to its logical extreme.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by haiz123321

Damn, really? I thought spells were well, programmed into it as part of the device or something. I'm really losing my touch with this series >.< The self training you're referring to, was it the thing she did at the beginning of A's with the magic bullet thing?

It's unclear how much these spells and abilities are able to be cast by the mage alone, and how much is only doable if they have their device. For instance, stuff like Sonic Form and Blaster Mode are device specific, and many mages pre-load their barrier jackets into their device, even though they could transform their own clothes naturally (Einhart does it without a device).

And yes, part of it was Nanoha self-training with that bullet; she was working on control. IT was her Divine Shooter spell, which she taught herself near the end of Season 1, pretty much by trying to copy Fate's Photon Lancer. Notice that she has to chant to activate the spell, whereas she just fires it normally when actually using her device; that gives you a big hint that you can pre-load spells into your device, and/or have them do the "chanting" part for you, so you just need to fire.

I don't know if you've read the manga, but Nanoha's self-training was expanded upon. She had Raging Heart continually drain her mana while going to school and such, presumably working it much like a muscle. The more mana she went through, the greater her ability to generate mana and control magic. Also, she had RH create a virtual reality in her head, where she could practice combat techniques and spells against virtual opponents.

Yuuno presumably taught her about magic initially(he talked her through the sealing techniques in episode 2), as well as shields, flying, and binds, but a lot of Nanoha's attack spells are self-taught. You can even see her develop a long range search spell and long range attack spell in episode 3.

So there is a lot that a mage can develop on their own.

Devices primarily help a mage regulate their mana, and this can be seen by strengthening spells. Note when RH and Bardiche get upgraded, Nanoha's Divine Shooter becomes Axel Shooter, while Fate's Photon Lancer becomes Plasma Lancer. Could Nanoha cast SLB without RH? Who knows. All depends on what she herself is capable of. Perhaps initially she might not be able to, but with time, could train herself to gather the mana and cast it without RH.

Fate was able to cast Thunder Rage without Bardiche. That was actually the spell that, when Precia heard it, decided to allow Linith to get a device for Fate in the first place.

It's actually been a bit of a struggle for me in writing Future Tense, because a lot of times I have Nanoha fighting without a device, or with a simple storage device, so I've been trying to figure out which spells she could use at any particular time.

Edit: RH is also an Intelligent device; whether Armed Devices or Storage Devices can do the VR training, too, is another question. But I'd say it's quite plausible other Intelligent Devices could. And even if they can't, the capability for VR training does exist, so I presume mages could get time in a VR simulator.