Learning Japanese

[RandomGuy]

Originally Posted by Mueti

Tomorrow's gonna be a relaxed day. Four hours by train, four hours JLPT, four hours back.
I'm not so confident anymore though, didn't learn anything in the past few weeks. I just can hope that all my reading will make up for it somehow. And hopefully I won't be too unsure about the result once it's over; I imagine that having no idea of whether or not I passed for about three months wouldn't be very cool...

Well, I survived the Ikkyuu. Dead tired now, though.

The listening and grammar sections were all right. Reading comprehension was borderline: I understood the passages, but I had a hard time figuring out how some of the answers to the questions were different from each other. There must be some subtle nuances that I still don't quite get.

As for kanji/vocabulary: ouch. If I fail the exam, it will be because I bombed this section. If you just give me a word, I don't have too much trouble picking apart the meaning / pronunciation, but when you take one word, extrapolate the pronunciation of one character, apply it to something else? I got nothin'. Guess I should get to work on studying words for the re-take in July, regardless of whether I manage to squeak by with a 70...

[Ja-Y-Ce]

Originally Posted by Butternuts

Hmm, I thought the listening test was the most easy test of them all, but that one graph question was hard, maybe I didn't pay attention hard enough lol. The Comprehension and Grammar was VERY hard, omg I was sweating bullets. I didn't manage my time correctly, I should have done the grammar portion of the test, then reading. Whatever..

well, i am the worst here then. Both Listening and Grammar were hard, especially the Grammar.. oh man, my time management sux! Unable to finish the paper...

Guess that I definitely need a miracle just to pass this paper. Anyway, good for those residing in areas that have the July papers next yr.... Arrgghhh and why only certain regions have them!?! This is so unfair.! :X

[Risaa]

Good luck to those who still have time before taking it (mostly only those left in the US now eh). I'm going to "study" this morning by going to Japan Town for a little shopping. :P

Maybe I've mentioned it before but despite having studied level 2 material this past year, I don't have the confidence for it, so I signed up for 3. Feel free to call me a wimp, but I'm not a very good test-taker regardless. After a lot of review, next year level 2 for sure...

[Mueti]

Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Well, I survived the Ikkyuu. Dead tired now, though.

The listening and grammar sections were all right. Reading comprehension was borderline: I understood the passages, but I had a hard time figuring out how some of the answers to the questions were different from each other. There must be some subtle nuances that I still don't quite get.

As for kanji/vocabulary: ouch. If I fail the exam, it will be because I bombed this section. If you just give me a word, I don't have too much trouble picking apart the meaning / pronunciation, but when you take one word, extrapolate the pronunciation of one character, apply it to something else? I got nothin'. Guess I should get to work on studying words for the re-take in July, regardless of whether I manage to squeak by with a 70...

Heh, I survived it as well. The Kanji plus vocabulary part was by far the hardest one for me but that was to be expected. Listening comprehension was ok, even though I didn't do as good as I thought I would. At times I just couldn't really concentrate anymore. And that break was a joke....
[ちょっと休憩しましょう！」
*5 seconds of elevator music*
「では、次の質問！」


If I pass it'll be because of part 3, especially reading comprehension I found to be rather easy. I know what you mean when you're talking about subtle nuances - but they definitely were in the text if you read closely enough.
Alright then, gotta go get up in 4 hours, about time I get to bed. See ya!^^

[Risaa]

Originally Posted by Mueti

At times I just couldn't really concentrate anymore. And that break was a joke....
[ちょっと休憩しましょう！」
*5 seconds of elevator music*
「では、次の質問！」

That was hilarious XD And I also couldn't concentrate as well during listening comprehension.. They were speaking sooo slowly, I started dozing off in the middle of each one!

Vocab portion wildly swayed between very easy and very difficult (very easy if I knew the vocab; very difficult if I didn't - there was hardly any context to draw meaning from!!) while the grammar portion was a piece of cake - I finished that portion at least a half hour early. I'm very confident I passed, but I'm hoping for a high score as well.

[Ja-Y-Ce]

Damn, i made a huge mistake by looking at those chinese sites which have posted the online answers for the JLPT paper... and i guess i only pass the vocab section. OMG! *faintz*

*in the state of depression and denial now*

[Vexx]

If there's one thing I've learned from watching the JLPT antics over the last couple of years ... its that cramming and cheat sites don't work. You simply have to be more comfortable with the language than the test level you've about to take is testing for.
Of course, that's one reason I keep putting off my own descent into JLPT madness.

[TheZap]

I know a few words( idk if someone already said, I am sort of new here and refuse to read all of this from start too much )
Hmmm, idk if im spelling this right,
Shini (She-Neh) Die
Well, I dont want to type aaaallllllll the words I know

[RandomGuy]

Originally Posted by TheZap

I know a few words( idk if someone already said, I am sort of new here and refuse to read all of this from start too much )
Hmmm, idk if im spelling this right,
Shini (She-Neh) Die
Well, I dont want to type aaaallllllll the words I know

Well, it's not the imperative, but if you say it the right way it comes across as a request...

That said, it's not the kind of vocabulary you'll find much opportunity to use in day-to-day conversation, unless you intend on making people look at you funny.

[tenkenX6]

Originally Posted by RandomGuy

That said, it's not the kind of vocabulary you'll find much opportunity to use in day-to-day conversation, unless you intend on making people look at you funny.

Yes, I agree.


It's not a term you want to use in normal conversations, unless you're having a conversation with someone close, like a good friend. Also, it's a vulgar term. You don't want to go down the street in Japan and start shouting "shineh" out loud. Other than getting funny looks and getting laughed at, someone or some people might think you're saying that to them and get angry.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by tenkenX6

It's not a term you want to use in normal conversations, unless you're having a conversation with someone close, like a good friend. Also, it's a vulgar term. You don't want to go down the street in Japan and start shouting "shineh" out loud. Other than getting funny looks and getting laughed at, someone or some people might think you're saying that to them and get angry.

hee hee hee, it's so easy to spot out who's been watching waaaay too much anime and hasn't hung around japanese natives much.
Simply put, just reverse the situation and imagine a bunch of foreigners shouting out power ranger commands, or cheesy superhero sentences:
"I will defeat you in the name of freedom!"
"Justice will be served!"
"Eat this, punk!"
"Evil will never win!"
(and so on, lol)

So for that reason, I keep the cheesy anime comments to jp karaoke songs and other gaijin who may be interested in the same anime (eg: naruto)

[tenkenX6]

Originally Posted by Mystique

hee hee hee, it's so easy to spot out who's been watching waaaay too much anime and hasn't hung around japanese natives much.

Indeed. From my personal experiences, people who randomly shout out vulgar Japanese terms and/or slang terms are usually just very odd showoffs. Now of course, this is not the universal reason for this behavior, but it's what I have observed throughout the years. A guy I know used to go around shouting terms like "sukebeh(pervert)" and the like all the time, like at the local community college. >>

[RandomGuy]

Originally Posted by tenkenX6

Indeed. From my personal experiences, people who randomly shout out vulgar Japanese terms and/or slang terms are usually just very odd showoffs. Now of course, this is not the universal reason for this behavior, but it's what I have observed throughout the years. A guy I know used to go around shouting terms like "sukebeh(pervert)" and the like all the time, like at the local community college. >>

It's not really that uncommon for people who are still at a relatively low level of a given language to be proficient in... certain areas of vocabulary. My ninensei boys, for example, sometimes struggle with how to answer the question "How are you?", yet they know all the words for various parts of the anatomy that they have a keen interest in, as well as a plethora of phrases that could get them beaten up in America.

Given that, I think it basically comes down to where one's priorities lie. If it's being able to hold a conversation, then one makes an effort to learn what it takes to engage someone else in small talk or serious discussion. If it's finding porn on the internet, you get a fair percentage of my male students. And, of course, if it's spouting the phrases you know from your favorite anime, you'll find a decent amount of people on any given anime forum. Hell — even I was like that, years upon years ago.

[tenkenX6]

Originally Posted by RandomGuy

And, of course, if it's spouting the phrases you know from your favorite anime, you'll find a decent amount of people on any given anime forum. Hell — even I was like that, years upon years ago.

Well, I suppose it's just the fascination of learning something cool and/or interesting in another language. Plus, some people are more open/vocal than others.

[Autumn Demon]

Is there a Japanese version of qwerty and what is it?

[iLney]

Uhm, I'm planning to learn all of the 2000 compulsory Kanji before any serious learning. Is it a good idea? (just learn how to write and the meaning of those, not the pronunciation). I got like 300 in 4 days thx to Heisig's methods.

Or should I stop now and concentrate more in grammar and stuffs?

[RandomGuy]

Originally Posted by iLney

Uhm, I'm planning to learn all of the 2000 compulsory Kanji before any serious learning. Is it a good idea? (just learn how to write and the meaning of those, not the pronunciation). I got like 300 in 4 days thx to Heisig's methods.

Or should I stop now and concentrate more in grammar and stuffs?

Recognition alone will help you figure out meaning to a healthy extent, but there are other aspects of of kanji that are just as important as knowing what they mean. Pronunciation (especially when it comes to the various and sundry kun readings) can be fairly closely tied to grammar, especially when it comes to learning the nuances of usage.

That said, if you don't consider memorizing two thousand kanji "serious learning", maybe you'll be fine regardless.

[iLney]

Uhm, I mean rearranging the way my brain works and making it to so naturally (Japanese grammar) requires much more effort. Man, I;ve even tried to spell a word in kana in stead of romaji lately (everything in kana), and it's slowwwww

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by iLney

Uhm, I mean rearranging the way my brain works and making it to so naturally (Japanese grammar) requires much more effort. Man, I;ve even tried to spell a word in kana in stead of romaji lately (everything in kana), and it's slowwwww

practice makes perfect as with most things. Keep with it and over the months and years it'll speed up
As for learning not to say anything, seems kinda pointless. That's like learning to write the ABC, but not knowing the sounds, how can you actually read or communicate then?
Don't forget (as i think a lot of us do) learning kanji = learning vocabulary. It'll strenghtern the words you need to mesh in with the grammar, so both are just as important.
For me personally, learning kanji is an easier way to memorise vocab as i can kinda 'see' the word.
Of course there's 3 issues with it; as of lately for me, it's knowing the english word, seeing the kanji in my head, but forgetting how to actually read it. x.x

[7thMethuselah]

Originally Posted by iLney

Uhm, I'm planning to learn all of the 2000 compulsory Kanji before any serious learning. Is it a good idea? (just learn how to write and the meaning of those, not the pronunciation). I got like 300 in 4 days thx to Heisig's methods.

Or should I stop now and concentrate more in grammar and stuffs?

Learning the nearly 2000 basic kanji but not how to make a sentence seems a bit strange to say the least. And even if you know them all you won't be able to tell the content of a sentence still. The combination of 2 kanji can give meanings which aren't even closely related to the basic meaning of the separate kanji, the word for Japan is made up from the combination of the kanji for a tree with the kanji for a sun for example. I also think it'll require some serious discipline to learn all the kanji without knowing how to read them, and for all the effort you will still be little further to being able to read a japanese text.

So I think you should learn some grammar with it as well. Being able to recognise and later 'read' kanji is a big fulfillment. There's no real need to learn all on and kun readings at once if you can't connect these to words you know. Just pick them up as you go along. I tend to learn some grammar and add in a set of kanji according to new vocabulary that comes with it. You wont find words for all readings, since some readings are more rare than others, as long as you know the commonly used ones. A good reference book is indispensible here of course. It's just as Mystique said, kanji are a great way to add words to your vocabulary. And vocabulary is a great way to remember the kanji

The most important thing with Kanji is practicing to read simple texts. Read and reread texts untill you can make out the reading of a kanji naturally with no effort. At first you'll find it confusing to see the reading according to the context, but you'll notice you can make progress here really fast and knowing which readings to use becomes relatively fast and easy without the need to learn all on and kun readings as a list. Remembering the meaning of the kanji really gets etched in your brain this way. You won't be learning 400 Kanji in a few days with this method, but you will be able to actually read a text, and remembering the kanji becomes so much easier since you can connect it to several items at once.