Fate/Zero - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Touko]

Originally Posted by Methuselah

I for one am glad to see Tokiomi in awe as he dies. He deserved it - after donating his daughter to a rapist and remain impossibily oblivious to it while being to egocentric in his magehood. Die whore.

You need to dive deeper into Nasu-lore to appreciate the bitterness of this dramatic irony.

Tokiomi has the right to be egocentric, because House Tohsaka is a proud lineage with a glorious history.

And sending Sakura to Zouken is absolutely the correct decision based on what Tokiomi knows and the past relationship between House Matou and House Tohsaka.

I would tell you more, but it would probably spoil this whole Fate franchise for you and then some.

Tokiomi is a tragic victim of Urobuchi's sadistic plot.

[Guido]

Fate zero will never cease to both shock and amaze me.

The second season to the series is turning the stakes towards the darkest horizons, as the casualties of the war continue at building up precipitating the oncoming climax; the inevitable banquet of flesh and blood between Kirei and Kiritsugu.

Kiritsugu now cannot allow himself to even rest, because Kirei at last has connected with his emotions.

Kirei the man that once was the emptiness himself feeling absolutely nothing at all for the world and its surroundings, and it was just the tiny apple that the King of Heroes cut from his garden and tempted Kirei with that awoken the priests' emotions in a torrent of frenzied rage and frustration.
What is now the purpose of Kirei? But to find the answers as to his emotions? To find the answers with meeting face to face with the man that shared the same emptiness as he did before in the likes of Emiya Kiritsugu?

When the Holy Grail War approaches its climax, then we will know for sure.

Gosh, now I truly even disdain Gilgamesh!!

And, the bad news and death flags continue to loom in the shadows given that Irisviel deteriorating condition can be taken as an indicator to the War coming to a close; it also explains the second reason as to why Saber have to keep Irisviel company at all times for the effects of Avalon within her being fully operational.

Her exchange of words with Maiya inside the car not only was sweet but heartwarming, which offers the possibility that the later will feature developments for their characters.

So, for now the casualties have even with 4 Masters and 4 Servants remaining.

[Touko]

It's hard to say who is tempting who. Gilgamesh and Kotomine complete each other.

Shippers rejoice.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Touko

Tokiomi is a tragic victim of Urobuchi's sadistic plot.

There are so many ironic tragedies here. Tokiomi didn't even die in an elegant and befitting way, he was back stabbed and died alone with poorly done bug eyes.

[HandofFate]

Despite for some reason the church overseeing the Grail War as sorts...

doesn't the Church actually hate magic? Why would they even take any part in it?

[Touko]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

Despite for some reason the church overseeing the Grail War as sorts...

doesn't the Church actually hate magic? Why would they even take any part in it?

Not exactly spoiler, but just to be safe anyways.

Spoiler:

They do. Magic is forbidden, except for the performance of divine miracles. There is an official truce between the Church and the Magic Association, however, the underground war between the two never truly ceased.

Kotomine himself is an Executor ("代行者"), "one who carries out God's will". One of the primary role of Executor is the elimination of heresy, and magic is one of them.

The Church hates magic, but loves divine relics (or stuff that works like divine relics). The Church wants to keep tabs on the Fuyuki Grail. If it turns out to be REAL, then an army of Executors would descend upon Fuyuki to acquire it (and anyone getting in the way probably will die horrible deaths).

The magi let the Church be the supervisor because they know the Church hates magic, thus they are a neutral, impartial 3rd party who can be a fair judge.

[mAc Chaos]

It pretty much answers that question the first episode during Tokiomi and Risei's endless walkaround of Kotomine.

They don't like magic but they're over there just in case the Grail happens to be real, and because it's still super powerful.

So what Touko said.

[Archer]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

Despite for some reason the church overseeing the Grail War as sorts...

doesn't the Church actually hate magic? Why would they even take any part in it?

This is explained in the Einzbern Consultation Room, but basically they're forced to oversee the ritual since they have a duty to watch over holy relics and make sure it doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

[Touko]

Originally Posted by Archer

This is explained in the Einzbern Consultation Room, but basically they're forced to oversee the ritual since they have a duty to watch over holy relics and make sure it doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

There is no "duty" per se (certainly not "forced"). They are just an 8th faction besides the magi, who would swoop in to take the Grail, if it really works. The Church does not really have an intent that is any nobler than the magi.

Wheels within wheels within wheels.

[Guido]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

Despite for some reason the church overseeing the Grail War as sorts...

doesn't the Church actually hate magic? Why would they even take any part in it?

You know after watching this episode, any guy out there should start a whole new meme from this....

Something like: "Never Trust the Church".

Though, I like more "In Church We Trust".

[Touko]

The real life Catholic Church is not as powerful or strong-handed as the one in Nasuverse though, lol.

The Church in Nasuverse has an extensive military branch, and actively kills those who they perceive as a threat to the divine teachings.