Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Dauerlutscher]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

For people who are thinking that Mashiro should be allow to do whatever she wants;

You really believe that people should not be allowed to do what they want?

Her fans expect from her to paint. She doesn't want to do that anymore. Her fans will have to move on. Will someone die if she doesn't submit to other peoples wishes? There is absolutely no problem as long she is happy with what she is doing and is earning enough money to live from it. She is young and still has many options to how she will live in her future.

And just because she doesn't want to paint anymore, doesn't change that her paintings are still good and have worth.

Let me give you have simple analogy to consider.
Say for example you created one of the greatest survival horror video game series of all time, and your loyal fans have been following you for years and years.

Then all of a sudden you decide to change that series into an action-oriented game without considering what anybody thinks- Are you telling me that your long time fans have no reason to get angry and demand that you go back to your ‘roots’ ?

The knew Resident Evel game that has sold better than the older games.

An about the talent and expections topic.
My whole life people expetced from me to study art because I have talent for it. I like drawing very much, but that was never what I wanted to do. Should i have to to submit to that and don't be alowed to follow my dream to be a mechanician?

[Sumeragi]

Chaos2Frozen's point that there is such a thing as expectations, and to ignore them completely is also being blind to the overall issue.

[bastek66]

Haha, this guy. He's just like Aoyama: she doesn't notice his feelings and he overreacts and blushes around her.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher

You really believe that people should not be allowed to do what they want?

Her fans expect from her to paint. She doesn't want to do that anymore.

Just to be clear,it seems what she doesn't want is to go back to england and be an art star,she's got nothing against painting,you can even see her painting on a canvas when Sorata is sending her a text message

[molitar]

Shiina, is happy and young. All she has done is paintings from when she was very young to the point she had done nothing for herself not even dressing. Since she came to Japan she has been growing more independent than she has all her life. She does not have that influence saying all she can do is paint and be a painter. She has actually gone out by herself some and learning slowly to be more independent something that Sorata has been making her learn to do.

Shiina, is young and has a long life to decide if she wants to do painting again but I am sure by now she is probably burned out at being a professional painter to the point where she was so dependent on others to even dress. To the point common sense was excluded by all around her until Sorata got Mashiro Duty.

Think of it from Shiina's view if you were her and been sheltered and pampered with them expecting nothing from you but paintings would you not tire of that scene? Her entire life has been just that. Shiina, took a big step when she decided to go to Japan on her own and those who were around her most likely thought she wouldn't make it but she has been making it and doing quite well. It feels to me that Rita almost treats her more as an object to be admired than someone with feelings. I do not like Rita's personality she even speaks of Shiina as someone that destroys others and not friendly. It is more like to me that Rita does not really like her and somehow blames Shiina for destroying her own dreams and wants to destroy Shiina's dream and using painting as the excuse. After all Shiina could paint anywhere not just in England.

The only real reason I can see about trying to force her to go back to England is they lost there money maker as they did not teach her what money was so she has probably made a lot being a famous painter but had no concept of money. How many times did Sorata get onto her for taking food without paying for it she didn't even know the concept of money so where has the money she has made gone? Probably to her care takers and they want her back as the object that made them money. She was treated like a mentally handicapped girl with a talent in art and that was about it from how she acts and from description of her past.

[Kanon]

Sorata no baka.

Some may argue that people with great talent have a duty to share it with the world, but I think anybody should be allowed to do what it is that makes them the happiest. If Mashiro wishes to pursue a mangaka career, then do be it. It should be her choice and nobody else's. Sorata and Rita have no right to decide for her.

I didn't expect Ryunosuke to look like that. At all. He is one fine trap.

[Dauerlutscher]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Chaos2Frozen's point that there is such a thing as expectations, and to ignore them completely is also being blind to the overall issue.

The thing is really simple.
Do things that you are interested in and not things that people expect you to do just because you have talent for that but you are not interested to do them.

It's Shiina's life and her wish to how shew wants to live her live counts far more than what others want.

Originally Posted by totoum

Just to be clear,it seems what she doesn't want is to go back to england and be an art star,she's got nothing against painting,you can even see her painting on a canvas when Sorata is sending her a text message

I guess I expessed what I meant not really good. I have no said that she has something against painting, just that she doesn't want to do that anymore and that has to be respected.

Originally Posted by molitar

Shiina, is happy and young. All she has done is paintings from when she was very young to the point she had done nothing for herself not even dressing. Since she came to Japan she has been growing more independent than she has all her life. She does not have that influence saying all she can do is paint and be a painter. She has actually gone out by herself some and learning slowly to be more independent something that Sorata has been making her learn to do.

Shiina, is young and has a long life to decide if she wants to do painting again but I am sure by now she is probably burned out at being a professional painter to the point where she was so dependent on others to even dress. To the point common sense was excluded by all around her until Sorata got Mashiro Duty.

Think of it from Shiina's view if you were her and been sheltered and pampered with them expecting nothing from you but paintings would you not tire of that scene? Her entire life has been just that. Shiina, took a big step when she decided to go to Japan on her own and those who were around her most likely thought she wouldn't make it but she has been making it and doing quite well. It feels to me that Rita almost treats her more as an object to be admired than someone with feelings. I do not like Rita's personality she even speaks of Shiina as someone that destroys others and not friendly. It is more like to me that Rita does not really like her and somehow blames Shiina for destroying her own dreams and wants to destroy Shiina's dream and using painting as the excuse. After all Shiina could paint anywhere not just in England.

Originally Posted by Kanon

Sorata no baka.

Some may argue that people with great talent have a duty to share it with the world, but I think anybody should be allowed to do what it is that makes them the happiest. If Mashiro wishes to pursue a mangaka career, then do be it. It should be her choice and nobody else's. Sorata and Rita have no right to decide for her.

Absolutely agree with both of you.

[Insane]

As for me, i'd go "screw them! My life is my own!"

[blakstealth]

I wonder what Rita's motives are to trying to get Mashiro back to England. It's clear that Mashiro kinda killed her passion of painting, so why is she doing all of this?

It's probably not something to really speculate about if the reasoning turns out to be flat, but I still wonder.

And I lol'd when Mashiro threw her out of the house. What a fuckin badass hood n****.

[Sumeragi]

What, Rita might like Mashiro?

[Mahou]

Mahou's usual few comments
1. Sorata no baka
2. I was relieved that Rita's character was very pleasant and enjoyable because I feared someone worse aka someone annoying and rude who is biased towards Mashiro (kinda like the friend version of the bra-con). And she's quite the beauty .
3. Sorata's reaction to a normal hotel was indeed over the top. Didn't find this tsukkomi act funny.
4. I think Sorata should have stayed true to his mindset of "I don't agree with Rita, but I don't think I'm Shiina's ally either". Sure, this point of view is more lame, but it also helps to avoid a possible bad atmosphere. BUT, I can see why he thought at the end like this given Mashiro's magnitude of artial skills.
5. On the other hand: Rita's admits she knows hardly a thing about mangas, yet claims Mashiro would waste her talent. Partly true because paintings and maga drawings *are* on a different level (let's ignore some really good-looking offical and fan arts). Still, she knows not much about it + for Japan it has a huge cultural value. Let alone Mashiro's rather strong reaction in "throwing" her out of the dorm.

Oh yea, Sorata no baka!

[tsunade666]

I don't think that money is the issue on Mashiro being asked to go back to England to paint more. If you look at the op it looks to me that she has a wealthy background though more like a cage bird with a set of things she can only do. So saying money is the reason would be wrong for me though that could also be a possibility but from what Rita comments on Mashiro. It looks to me that she envies Mashiro's talent. She kinda hate and love her. A feeling that she aspire to become someone but seeing Mashiro's shear level of talent drown her on dreaming. IT can be reflected when Sorata learned about Mashiro's background. She is probably overwhelmed with it too but somehow just like Sorata she got over with it and accepts it.

But now the problem rise is when Mashiro decides to stop doing painting and goes to japan to become a mangaka. Maybe Rita felt betrayed back then with all her hopes on Mashiro was been thrown out, though its kinda forceful for Rita to put her dreams and hopes on Mashiro but Mashiro can do things normal people can't do. Those are the type that shines and gives others dream and seeing them reach the summit makes your dream come true too. Though for Mashiro. She really didn't care. She stops doing painting and decides to become a mangaka but still its not like she totally stops doing painting. It even shows in the episode she still do it but right now she is doing what she wanted. To draw a manga.

Try to picture both perspective from Rita and Mashiro. I understand both and Mashiro should just decide for herself and not being forced by others but she should also explain it to Rita. Rita didn't understand what's good about manga but it didn't stop her. She is reading a manga which was shown in the episode too. She is probably trying to understand what so good about it but still. Her lack of knowledge about it and experience clouds her judgment and thinks that Mashiro should return to England and continue her paintings.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher

You really believe that people should not be allowed to do what they want?

I'm telling you it's not as simple as ignoring everything and doing what you want.

You can't expect there not to be backlash of some sort.

Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher

Y
The knew Resident Evel game that has sold better than the older games.

Once again ignoring my question like a boss.

Can I take it that you support the decisions of every game developer, every Anime Studio, every mangaka, every movie director, to do whatever the Hell they want?

Heck, if it's your favorite book writer, suddenly stopped in the middle of a good series just to change his profession to something else entirely- Will you support him/her 100%? Take Infinite Stratos for example, are fans not allow to rage at the Author for the current sorry ass state of their series because hey, it's his life- let him do what he wants!

How many people here raged at KyoAni not doing FMP or Haruhi or Little Busters? It's their life after all, let them do what they want right?

Originally Posted by Insane

As for me, i'd go "screw them! My life is my own!"

That's because nobody cares what you do with yours

[Triple_R]

I think there's a good real world analogy to what Mashiro is going through right now.

And it's Michael Jordan.


Jordan, of course, was a world-class basketball player. Beloved by millions upon millions of people, who thoroughly enjoyed watching him play the sport of basketball. But in the mid-90s, Jordan lost his passion for basketball, and decided to act out on his desire to play baseball.

While Jordan was a world-class basketball player (arguably the best of all-time), he was barely a minor league caliber baseball player. Plenty of pro sports followers felt that Jordan was wasting away his athletic talents by playing a sport he was just barely good enough at to make a career out of when there was another sport in which he was the best in the world at.

I admittedly haven't read much on Jordan, but I'd be shocked if he didn't have loads and loads of people telling him "Dude, stop wasting time on baseball. Get back to what you're really good at - Basketball!"


My sense is that Mashiro is much the same. She's world-class at paintings, but just a passable pro at writing/drawing manga.


Now... Michael Jordan ended up going back to the NBA, and added a lot to his legacy, playing on some more awesome Bulls teams. At the end of the day, was this the best use of his time in the pro sports world, or should Jordan had spent several more years toiling away in minor league baseball?

Personally, I think that if an individual has truly great talent in a particular area, it's an absolutely horrible shame to let that go to waste. It's almost criminal, really, for a person gifted with abilities that millions upon millions would wish to have to not put those talents to good use. We're talking about awesome natural talent that can create awe and wonderment for the world (be it in sports, or art).


I think it's fine for Mashiro to spent some time exploring her interest in manga, and making some professional manga, but should she completely break away from her painting and do nothing more than manga the rest of her life? Personally, I couldn't agree with that. So I can totally see where Sorata and Rita are coming from.

Sorata isn't being stupid at all. He's being practical and fair.


That being said, I'm pretty cynical about where this narrative is going to go next on the whole painting vs. manga thing... but while this is cynical to me, it also should be comforting to those who think that Mashiro should just do what she wants, period.

Two questions:

1. Who's the primary audience for this show? Otakus, of course.

2. In the world of otakudom, what is valued more: Manga or Conventional Paintings?

So I have a pretty good idea of where this story is going to go...


I'd love for the narrative to prove me wrong, though, and go in the more daring direction.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think there's a good real world analogy to what Mashiro is going through right now.

And it's Michael Jordan.

That one is difficult to compare, because there is the factor of the murder of his father and the fact Jordan being a MLB player was the dream of his late father. As far as I know, Mashiro doesn't have quite the same thing going on here.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

That one is difficult to compare, because there is the factor of the murder of his father and the fact Jordan being a MLB player was the dream of his late father. As far as I know, Mashiro doesn't have quite the same thing going on here.

True, it's not a perfect analogy. But it still works reasonably well.

Also, I used a real world analogy to try to make it as clear as possible what Sorata and Rita are concerned about here. Hypotheticals can be easy to dismiss, so I think it's good to raise something more concrete.

[Dawnstorm]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

That being said, I'm pretty cynical about where this narrative is going to go next on the whole painting vs. manga thing... but while this is cynical to me, it also should be comforting to those who think that Mashiro should just do what she wants, period.

I think this particular question is a bit of a bait-and-switch plot element. Here's my take on this episode and it's place in the show:

1. Rita probably quit painting because she can't keep up with Mashiro. Then Mashiro quits painting for no reason apparent to Rita. Now none of the two paints. This irks Rita more than the wasted talent spiel she's going on about, but she doesn't see her on part in the equation, and that comes out as resentment.

2. Meanwhile Mashiro goes into manga fully aware that she's not on top, there. We've seen, in a past episode, that she has trouble with plot, and that she uses her own experience, via role-reversal, which reflects a desire to understand the world around her. She's always been the best at painting, but that left her feeling hollow about her life. I think she's using manga to explore "story" as a medium to understand life. (Man, the story telling animal.) She's actually using her "painting talent" to do this: everyone praises her art in that line.

3. The basic premise of the show is Sorata's feelings of insufficiency compounded by moving into Sakurasou, while Mashiro learns about living in a less sheltered environment.

So what does all this point towards? I think one of the themes might be phrased as: "Doing things that come easy to you is not as rewarding as putting effort into something and succeeding." Another might be, "If you stay in your comfort zone for too long you grow dull." Things like that. It's about challanging yourself rather than what "you're supposed to do". At least that's what I think.

[Dauerlutscher]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

'm telling you it's not as simple as ignoring everything and doing what you want.

It simple because she has absolutely no obligation to please anyone. Simple as that. It's her life and she can do what she wants with that.

You can't expect there not to be backlash of some sort.

Why should anyone care what other people want? It's not their life, It's mine and I have to live it. As long my actions doesn't affect others in an extremely negative way, there is no problem to that.

Once again ignoring my question like a boss.

Can I take it that you support the decisions of every game developer, every Anime Studio, every mangaka, every movie director, to do whatever the Hell they want?

Heck, if it's your favorite book writer, suddenly stopped in the middle of a good series just to change his profession to something else entirely- Will you support him/her 100%? Take Infinite Stratos for example, are fans not allow to rage at the Author for the current sorry ass state of their series because hey, it's his life- let him do what he wants!

If i don't like what a developer does, i don't by that produkt. It's extremely simple.
And the fact still remains that no one has the right to dictate how someon should live his life.

And your analogy is by no means comparable or relevant to Shiina's situation.
1: Shiina is not a company and is not responisble for employees. She is only responsible for herself and to what she wants to do with her life. It's her live after all and not anyone elses.
2: Fans who don't like a the produkt, are not forced to by it. The world is not going to end becaue of it anyway.
3: A game series with an ongoing plot stopping half the way is a completely different than a painter that doesn't want to paint anymore.
4: Every fan has a right to get angry if they don't like the produkt anymore, but they have by no means the right to dictate how you should life your life.

A better example.
Shiina is a film actres and has talent for it, but her disire is to become an author and so she stoppes with acting and starts with writing.
Some fans will gett disappointed, but why should she care? It's not their life, It's hers.

And a personal question.
Have you no problem If someone would appear and dictate you how to live your life?
Try doing that in real life and see how many people will say that you should mind your own business.

How many people here raged at KyoAni not doing FMP or Haruhi or Little Busters? It's their life after all, let them do what they want right?

Of course it is their choice and they have every right to decide what they want to animate. The rage was uncalled and absurd.

And no one said that fans have no right to get disapointed, because they have the right for that. But no one has the right to dictate your life. Its really simply.


The problem here is that you seem to believe that Shiina should not be allowed to do what she wants with her life, which is conflict with one of the fundamental human rights. Freedom to decide to do whatever you want with your life. fundamtal

[sikvod00]

Like others have mentioned, it's up to the individual to decide how or if they use their innate talents. Everyone should be free to pursue whatever ambitions make them happy regardless of what others says. There are exceptions where I believe you have an obligation to use your talents for the "greater good", but this isn't one of those times. Mashiro should do what she likes and her friends and family should support her endeavor.

It would not surprise me if Rita is pushing so hard for Moshira to return to painting because of her own feelings of inadequacy in art. She is a former painter herself and worked hard to get better at something she loves (I assume). Seeing someone else in her field so effortlessly create world-famous paintings while she struggles must be a frustrating experience. Then Rita sees Mashiro drop all of that fame and recognition to go "waste" her talents on manga. It's a slap in the face of everything she's done. It's still irrational and she has no right to foce Mashiro back, but it's definitely relatable.

I will say one thing. While we all know Mashiro works hard at becoming a mangaka, her success so far can't all be attributed to effort and perseverance. She's still relying on some of her natural talents as an artist leftover from painting. There's also the fact that she has extra time to work because Sorata handles all her housekeeping (in some ways that's actually unfair). So I wouldn't giver her as much credit as the work Sorata or Nanami have to put in for their own dreams. I guess that's one way to make yourself feel better when in the presence of a genius. They can't be so damn good at hard work either!

Really nice analysis, Dawnstorm!

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by sikvod00

it's up to the individual to decide how or if they use their innate talents. Everyone should be free to pursue whatever ambitions make them happy regardless of what others says.

Going against the crowd..... I say people with talent have the obligation to at least follow that talent. The entire "what makes you happy" thought always felt to me as something of a selfish notion.