2013-06-22, 10:50 | Link #1361 | |||
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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But don't worry. Now that he's made Class A, and is determined to beat Chihaya, we can probably expect him to begin his real training pretty soon.... though, we won't see this in the anime unless they do a third season....
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2013-06-22, 11:27 | Link #1362 | ||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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And when it comes to "hard work beating talent", I doubt he was especially talking about acceleration. That's too dependant on physique, on things you can't do anything about. What if he'd been as short as Tsutomu? Quote:
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I can think of three instances. One when he was about to give up on karuta, back before they formed the club. But his motivation's been renewed since then. Once when Nishida said he wasn't practicing his swings enough. While maybe true, all it meant was that he was practicing other aspects, not that he wasn't putting in the time. Lastly, when Tsutomu pointed out that before doing what you want to do, you must do what you have to do. Which is similar to Arata having a part-time job. No one can play karuta 24/7. |
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2013-06-22, 12:07 | Link #1363 | ||
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Isn't it because it's harder for him to forget? A karuta player needs to memorize and forget constantly. Taichi doesn't have any problems with the former, but the latter is a constant hurdle for him.
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And that's a problem. If they think they can't reach that level no matter how much they try, they never will. You have to put all doubts aside and just go for it. For Taichi, this is crucial, since he's psychologically weak to begin with. He, more than anyone, needs to put every doubt aside if he wants to improve his game. And he'll do it.
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2013-06-22, 12:28 | Link #1364 | ||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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- it isn't always realistic - you may come across some sadistic bastard who will use that very strength against you. I'm not saying you shouldn't develop your good points. But if that's all you've got, you can't beat talent. |
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2013-06-22, 12:36 | Link #1365 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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This emphasis on repetitive training reinforces my earlier belief that Chihaya would not be anywhere near as effective using her left hand. Even if she has impeccable hearing, she'd still need to have the ingrained motor skills to take advantage of her listening ability.
Does anyone know if they recruited another professional reader for this episode? He certainly seemed quite skilled.
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2013-06-22, 12:39 | Link #1366 |
Lost at Sea
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Reading through the debate, I am really impressed at how well informed and attendant to detail both of you--and indeed everyone in this forum--are. One of the advantages of a long series is that it gives all of us times to become SMEs in the material.
Will seriously miss this show, and this level of conversation.
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2013-06-22, 12:47 | Link #1367 | |||
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2013-06-22, 16:21 | Link #1368 | |||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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To me, "memory" is a whole. It's the ability to remember, at any given point in any given match, where the cards are and what cards have been read. Taichi is superior in that area. But saying he has trouble forgetting is the same as saying he's sometimes mistaken in his recollections, and that's the same as saying his memory is flawed. It doesn't matter if he's mistaken because he's remembering a previous match or if it's just because his memory is hazy in the first place. Quote:
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2013-06-22, 16:29 | Link #1369 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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I know the manga thread doesn't get the same amount of participation but I hope more people will be reading (and what I read of the manga: the first two bilingual editions was very good). But I am definitely going to miss the anime. And even if we get a 3rd season it's not going to be like with the 2nd season where we know shortly after. We have a long wait ahead.
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2013-06-22, 17:20 | Link #1372 | |||
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2013-06-22, 17:33 | Link #1373 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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It's not about how memory works, it's about what we mean when we say "memory" in the context of karuta.
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You're saying that when Arata said hard work beat talent, he was specifically thinking of how practicing your swings would make you faster. I think at most it's just one of the things you can work on. And Taichi doesn't use the cross hand, which is apparently a major feature of Arata's play. Taichi's never been shown to really get under the skin of his opponents, either. |
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2013-06-22, 18:00 | Link #1374 | |||
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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If you are already really fast, but no one is, since the movements of your limbs are naturally slower when you're a kid. You become faster as you grow up, and if you work really hard you can become even faster (and even more so if you have some "talent" on top of that). Either way, it takes time and hard work to get to that point. Arata's training was pretty intensive, and it's not only about speed, but more so about form (the way the arm moves). That's why imagining the best movement was so important during his training; it wasn't just about moving his arm fast like an idiot. I didn't say that. But I do think it's like 70% hard work in Arata's particular case. Mostly because, like I said above, he was training his arm to move in a particular way, not just to be faster. Quote:
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Ah, and here's a gif of Taichi practicing Watari-te (Cross Hand), though you may be right we haven't see him using this in a match yet: The thing with Taichi's that he's still in development. Arata too, but his style is already pretty refined. I hope there's a third season because I want to see Taichi truly develop his style.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2013-06-22 at 18:35. |
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2013-06-22, 18:06 | Link #1375 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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Well, she's 39 and the students are teenagers. Are you saying that if she were, say, 55 like the director, and he was 39, she would still use "-kun?" That is actually not far from the age and intimacy relationship between Sharon and Mutta/Hibito in Space Brothers. In the current episode when she reunites with Hibito, she doesn't use "-kun;" she simply calls him Hibito.
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2013-06-22, 19:36 | Link #1376 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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Just managed to catch the episode. Pretty intense for sure. Shinobu's perseverance and concluding satisfaction were incredible here, although the "fever" revelation did really feel like a convenience.
I could really do without any of the shiptease in this series though, though I guess I'm in the minority there :P. One point that did really intrigue me was how Arata was presented as the manifestation of the Chihayafuru concept. That concept being both Chihaya and the title's namesake, I wonder what it represents for Chihaya's own character journey, as well as Arata's. One the one hand, that "impassionate serenity" of the gods does still seem quite far out of Chihaya's reach -- years down the road even -- considering it's an infusion of Arata's entire demeanor, not just his karuta play. On the other hand, if Arata expressly takes up representing the end point of Chihaya's development, how does he develop/what will define himself? As an individual distinct from Chihaya's character concept. After this sort of showing, it will be curious to see where Suetsugu-sensei takes Arata's character next. Quote:
I think the whole idea of scapegoating Chihaya's achievements through "she's a genius, it's her ears which give her an advantage" is pretty bullshit, to say it straightly. Let's not forget that Chihaya comes with an equal weakness in her own memorization skills, handicapping her early game and giving her trouble with multi-syllable cards. The truth is that no character in particular has come equipped with the perfect talents to get a free walk over opponents, and that every win they have grasped over others has been shown as something which they have had to earn. Some players start slower than others, but the game of karuta is not so simple as to allow any character to simply coast on a single skill. Rather, it has been shown to be diverse enough to be a field of cultivation for any number of unique talents. In the same way, just because Arata has not been shown to overwhelm in any particular field of ability, does not mean his overall "stats"/potential were not always high. Regardless of his potential, it was down to practice to hone him to the point where he is now, and that goes the same for everyone else. The fact is, there's a general rule of human ability which makes an estimate of 10,000 hours to achieve the mastery of any art. That's for human capacities in general; if even a genius can't buckle down and put in the work to that level, they will be left behind. While there are some limitations, and at least some level of suitability for a task is probably required to get very far, the simple induction is that natural variation in human abilities alone is hardly a drop in the bucket versus that required level of sheer conditioning. For an amateur/hobby sport like karuta, reaching that kind of plateau must certainly come down to passion moreso than any short-term 'talent'. In that same way, I have never seen what's fascinating about Chihaya's journey with karuta being merely some supposed 'talent' for it, but rather the unending, unstoppable storm of the passion she has cultivated. Last edited by Sol Falling; 2013-06-22 at 19:50. |
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2013-06-22, 19:38 | Link #1377 | |
Seishu's Ace
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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Taichi trains damn hard - he just doesn't practice his swings as hard as Arata does (and he's admitted he needs to do so more). Considering he has team responsibilities and Arata doesn't, I think Taichi puts just as much time in on improving his own game as he possibly could. Absolutely yes.
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2013-06-23, 03:58 | Link #1378 | |||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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So she wouldn't call 30 years old she just met "-kun". But it's possible (likely?) she'd address her old students like that. Quote:
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Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2013-06-23 at 04:15. |
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2013-06-23, 08:11 | Link #1379 | ||
SIBYL salesman
Join Date: Feb 2011
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Anyway, Arata's advice to Taichi (which was Arata's grandpa's advice to him) was "there are plenty of other ways to take cards faster." (the last ep of season 1). Then Taichi takes this advice to break Chihaya's concentration by threatening to burn her daddy bears (and starts practises swinging). It seems to me that the advice is more to do with breaking your opponents by whatever means possible, rather than get there faster by having a faster acceleration than your opponent. |
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2013-06-23, 09:37 | Link #1380 | |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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Consider what the cross-hand technique allows a player to do. Suppose the Chigiriki-o and Chigiriki-no cards are both on the field. Normally, a player would go for the correct card upon hearing the deciding syllable. Someone with good hearing (kanji) would thus have the advantage and be able to go for them before their opponent hears the deciding syllable - typically when the preceding syllable is read (ki, in this case). Suppose now that both cards are on one player's half of the field, and have been split up. With the cross-hand, an astute player can also reach for the cards upon hearing the preceding syllable, rather than waiting for the deciding one. Hence, being good at the cross-hand allows players without the gift of hearing to challenge those with the gift of hearing. That said, someone with the gift of hearing using it with the cross-hand would be formidable indeed! ----- Training is an interesting topic to ponder, especially if anyone wants to consider another reason for Arata being able to challenge Shinobu despite having lost one and a half years. Putting aside the fact that she was sick, of course...though it's suggested that it didn't affect her all that much, really, given how she walked over everyone else in her path to the final. As we know, Shinobu trains alone; hence her unique style of play has been developed with regards to just her own talents and her strong link with the cards. Without being seriously challenged by anyone, or studying how other people play, she has little idea how Arata defeated her all those years ago. Hence, she was unable to prevent his psychological 'attack' from affecting her again - and arguably still hasn't realised how he does it. Training with others and getting advice from them - and especially from his grandfather - is one of the reasons Arata is able to strategise to take down players with arguably more 'talent' than him. That is to say, fellow team members, fellow players, can help one get better at the game. Does this settle the loner vs. team player debate once and for all? Well, let's see about Suou... ---- The sending and movement of cards during play is also an interesting tool that can be used, though it's probably less about taking cards 'faster' as opposed to making sure that you're the one picking up the correct card. What Taichi did in the team final against Eromu to make him commit a fault is a good example.
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cards, josei, karuta, sports |
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