2009-09-11, 10:34 | Link #1 |
eyewitness
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Upcoming anime database (wiki)
So to repeat and elaborate on the title: I'm proposing to introduce a list of upcoming or rumored anime productions in form of a wiki (or any structure that supports the collaborative effort of volunteers).
The wiki would be targeted at the anime fan (otaku) community outside of Japan, especially those who can't read Japanese. Our community is terribly disorganized in that respect. We lack something like an English-language moonphase. What we do have is a lot of effort done in parallel, that means it's often wasted. There are the big databases (anidb, ANN, animenfo, ...) that add anime erratically when a new season draws near. There is the fansub wiki. NeoSam produces his own list, and so does chartfag, based on NeoSam and all the above. And you can find lists on several blogs. I produce my own private list when I find the time (not every season) checking all the above again. And I'm probably not the only one. The fansub wiki should especially be mentioned because it proves that the idea works. It mirrors Moonphase quite well and updates fast whenever new entries appear. It's close enough to what I'm thinking of so I'm taking it as a starting point to explain my idea in detail.
So what would be the benefits to have such a wiki. For the community as a whole and for animesuki in particular.
The wiki should be editable by forum members only. If that's not enough to fight off trolls and bots, restrict it further based on rep points, number of posts or join date. Or any combination thereof. Invitation by the powers that be should always be possible of course. So, that's my proposal. Criticism?
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2009-09-11, 12:32 | Link #2 |
Banned
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I say to add links to all topics an anime is relevant to. Yes, it's a fuss but it will really help people understand what to expect. So, if you have Naruto for example, you get a link to the Naruto subthread.
Also, a description is needed. Story synopsis and basic categories. And if allowed a general opinion of how did the title go (sales, fanbase, hype) |
2009-09-18, 17:52 | Link #3 |
eyewitness
Join Date: Jan 2007
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tumbleweed.jpg
Seeing this overwhelming reaction after a whole week I've come to the conclusion that most people consider this an extremely stupid idea. If so, you're welcome to tell we why this is stupid instead of maintaining a polite silence that won't make me any wiser.
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2009-09-18, 18:31 | Link #4 |
Knowledge is the solution
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 39
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Actually, it seems like a very interesting idea to me, however the server admins (namely GDHPro, or someone who would be willing to host it) would have to be the first to step in and give it the OK in terms of wiki storage and maintenance before anything more complicated and in detail can be discussed.
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Last edited by Proto; 2009-09-18 at 21:03. |
2009-09-18, 20:54 | Link #5 |
耳をすませば
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
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I also think it's a good idea, but I don't have anything to add to it really. Like Proto said it seems to be up to the "people in charge". I don't have much to offer also (besides hosting if needed).
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2009-09-18, 21:42 | Link #6 |
Somehow I found out
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
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I think by limiting its edit-ability to just forum members, you run the risk of limiting its usefulness. The crux of edits and updates are inevitably going to be made by a small group of committed users, just as is the case at ANN (from what I gather). If those people start dropping off, and there isn't a steady supply of new ultra-committed editors to replace them, the thing might stagnate and become completely obsolete and irrelevant and too much of a pain to bring up to speed again. If there's one thing you can rely on, it's the laziness of people. If it's just little things, I don't think you should actively put up barriers to prevent people from tweaking the lists.
My suggestion would be to give non-members permission to make minor edits. If they're committed enough to make major changes to the wiki, then they're committed enough to register... but you probably have to assume that most people aren't. With that said, I'm not familiar enough with wiki editing to know how this is done (or even if it's possible). If you're worried about graffiti, I'm sure the wiki software should give you more than enough power to ban troublemakers and undo their graffiti without too much effort. A "report" button would probably be a good idea as well. Wiki graffiti-ists tend to be anything but subtle.
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2009-09-19, 01:35 | Link #7 |
Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45
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Sorry, I meant to reply earlier.
I think this is a good idea, although I'm not 100% sure how you would like to implement it. For example, do you want a sheet like the Fansub Wiki, or should visitors click to series specific pages for further information? Stuffing to much info into one sheet probably is not a good idea. How about something like the Season Preview posts seen on Random Curiosity? The advantage of doing such "posts" ourselves would be that we don't need to rely on one person to create such overviews, plus we can add the AnimeSuki connection you mentioned. The descriptions would need to contain less bias of course. Btw, It would be no problem hosting this. I can have MediaWiki (or any other Wiki software) installed in no-time. Customizing that software however, may be a bit more tricky as far as the forum tie-ins are concerned (logins etc). Should this new wiki be on it's own domain (which I'd be willing to fund) or something like wiki.animesuki.com? |
2009-09-19, 01:59 | Link #8 |
ISML Technical Staff
Graphic Designer
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I don't have any constructive criticism and would just like to say that it's a great idea. I would be glad to help, and yes, it should only be editable by forum members. There should be a group to make sure that random/incorrect stuff doesn't get added though.
Right now, there isn't really a single website that will give me all I know about a series. It usually takes a combination of 2 or 3 sites, and a place that has everything would be great. The torrent page on AS is one of my favorites, since it has links to lots of anime database sites. Having everything available in a wiki would be great.
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Last edited by KholdStare; 2009-09-19 at 02:18. |
2009-09-19, 03:04 | Link #9 | |
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Quote:
You have been warned =P
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2009-09-19, 07:31 | Link #10 | ||
Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45
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- Disable any form of anonymous login or normal (direct-on-wiki) registration - Make a special page that allows wiki "registration" using your forum login - Hijack login system to check forum db for password, not wiki db - Run a script so that various things remain in sync (ie: if user is banned on forum; ban him on wiki) AnimeSuki v3, which I was working on but lately I haven't made to much progress on, uses forum registration for it's login system. In addition, I had planned a wiki system of sorts where users will be able to make changes to series & group information pages directly. Spoiler for AnimeSuki v3 preview:
One thing I hadn't figured out for AnimeSuki v3 yet is where to put the License Database feature. However, a (separate) AnimeSuki wiki could be a suitable place for the license database as well, with anyone being able to add new additions, make corrections and expand on info (precise DVD release dates etc). While the license database doesn't intergrate well with the new-series-info idea of Slice of Life, we can simply give it a seperate "portal" page. However, when things overlap (unaired but already licensed series) you can't avoid naming the licensee (ie. Funimation) and linking to places where you can buy or view it legally (ie: Crunchyroll). And while I'm typing this... that's another idea again of course, to keep a overview of series available for free streaming in the wiki. Or simply make it a category listing. Quote:
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2009-09-19, 09:00 | Link #11 | |||||
eyewitness
Join Date: Jan 2007
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There is nothing more demotivating than having to invest work just to maintain/restore the status quo. At least IMHO. And banning anon is futile in the age of dynamic IPs. Now, to formulate the counter arguments by myself: I don't know if fansubwiki is really popular enough to run "on its own". For all i know it might work like subbing groups dropping their names + one man doing 90 percent of everything else. Also, inviting fansub groups to edit in particular also means - let's face it - inviting a lot of trolls and e-drama, be it from group members themselves or their fan- and hateboys. Quote:
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To speak for myself, I'm mainly interested in such a portal page. With upcoming anime, that is. I'm indifferent towards anything tied to torrents, because at the point when they are out, anidb in general already has all the information I want, or links to it. I do not want to see any licensing information on that page, or anything that separates anime fans in those who are allowed to sit in the front of the anime bus or not. And bluntly speaking, as somebody who sits in the back of the bus I wouldn't make an contribution to such a page. (Not that a wiki that depends on what a single user does or not wouldn't be a failure anyway.)
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2009-09-19, 09:59 | Link #12 | |
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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How about, - Disable annonymous logins (I'm sure there is a localsettings.php variable for it) - Add a extra verification to the registration page requiring you to have a equivalent account (nick and password at the time) on the forum. - On registration the userid is stored in a seperate table - If user with the userid exists (this would be due to namechange etc) registration is canceled To Ban you make a script that bans the userid from both forum and wiki. This system would thus avoid tampering with anything more then registration. In any case the following need to be intact:
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2009-09-19, 10:49 | Link #13 | |
Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45
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What I was referring to was to disable the standard registration feature of the wiki software and to allow people to "register" using their forum login. The script would then import all data from the forum DB and create a wiki account with it, preferably also maintaining the same userid. The only thing that then also needs hacking is any code that involves validating passwords (because that would need to verify it on the forum and not the wiki table in order to keep them in sync) and the profile pages need to be hacked to an extend so that information that can be input in the forum's User CP can't be changed from the wiki's profile editing page. This info (email, timezone, username, etc) can then also be synced upon each succesful login or using a cron job. This essentially is also how AnimeSuki v3 works. Same problem, same solution. It was just easier to implement. |
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2009-09-19, 14:21 | Link #14 | |
ISML Technical Staff
Graphic Designer
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Also, like Slice of Life said on his first post, if I want a list of on-going TV series, there isn't really a place for me to find that information easily. This is a good example of information that is there on the web somewhere in many sites, but not in one that is trustworthy and easy to find.
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2009-09-21, 03:49 | Link #15 |
Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45
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A little update:
I got MediaWiki up & running, and have made some adjustments to the default style to make it look a little more AnimeSuki-like, although I still need a logo. Based on the database layout, importing users from the forum DB into the wiki DB seems to fairly simple. I've been looking at the "Hooks" system of MediaWiki. It seems to me it should be fairly easy to: - Write a hook for the UserLoginForm event that will check if the cookie bbuserid (your AnimeSuki Forum userid) exists. If this cookie exists, but the userid is not found in the wiki database, it'll try to import the login data from the forum database and "register" an account for you. If this cookie does not exist or when there is some other error, it'll advise user to register on the forum and then visit a special page to import their user account into the wiki. If everything checks out though, it'll simply advise the user to login using their forum user details. - Write another hook for UserComparePasswords to compare the entered password to the password stored into the forum database, not the wiki database. This at the same time will overwrite Username (if changed on the forum) as well. The only slight issue is that the ability to change your wiki password makes no sense whatsoever. I still have to find a way to disable that. Edit: Instead of trying to figure it all out myself I could simply use this Last edited by GHDpro; 2009-09-21 at 04:06. |
2009-09-21, 07:33 | Link #16 |
eyewitness
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Here's a condensed version of how I imagine the list of upcoming anime:
Five columns:
Watcha think?
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2009-09-21, 08:37 | Link #17 |
Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45
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I'm in favor in adding a small image for each series, for easier recognition of each individual series.
Anyway, if you want to experiment, go ahead. Please be aware though that I intend to reset the database before really going live, so make sure you save the (source) of the pages you want to keep in a text file on your own PC! Also as I don't have the vBulletin integration running yet, you'll have to manually create a wiki account for now. Remember that this account too will be nuked once the wiki goes live (and possibly earlier as I need to test the vB intergration code). Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is what structure the wiki should have. I propose the following: http://wiki.animesuki.com/wiki/Main_Page -> Main page, introduces wiki purpose, etc. http://wiki.animesuki.com/wiki/Upcoming_anime -> Upcoming anime portal page. Transcludes the next page: http://wiki.animesuki.com/wiki/Anime_fall_2009_season (or a better name) This way you simply transclude {{:Anime_fall_2009_season}} on the Upcoming anime page. You then create new season pages and update the transclusion link as time passes. Btw, if you don't like the page titles I just mentioned, feel free to suggest better ones. |
2009-09-21, 18:51 | Link #20 | |
Horoist
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Also Wiki links, since practically all manga/anime/etc have them, so if it's an established franchise Wiki will have info, though people should be aware it usually contains spoilers. I definitely agree with no blogs. I'd rather keep it to DB sites. Edit: also, a Kairin logo would be good. Go poke some of the artists. |
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