2011-02-08, 14:25 | Link #121 | |||||
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So perhaps the fact that Kyubey offers the girls a wish doesn't reflect on his morality (or lack thereof) in either direction. Quote:
There's an old saying: "Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it." The idea behind that saying is that wishes, if realized, can have unintended consequences. Consider a nice caring kid saying to a genie, "I wish that everyone had a million dollars!" And then the wish is granted, with each and every person finding a million dollars appearing out of nowhere on their person. And then what happens in short order is that inflation sky-rockets worldwide, and the value of the dollar plummets, and people are no better off now than before. Now, did the wish have a Monkey's Paw catch? No, the genie granted it honestly and fairly. But the wish had logical repercussions that meant that the intent behind it was unrealized. I sincerely doubt that there's a Monkey's Paw catch to the wishes of Madoka Magica. This is for the following reasons: 1) Kamijo's hand seems to be healed fine, at least so far. 2) If there was such a catch, Homura should be bringing it up to Madoka, as it would be a good disincentive against Madoka choosing to be a magical girl. 3) Homura said that all magical girls fight for their wishes. This suggests, in my opinion, that the wish aspect of the magical girl system is actually a pretty fair one. I mean, who fights for a lemon, if you get my car analogy? However, I do think that the wishes that are granted in this anime can have unintended consequences. With this in mind, I could see Kamijo's healed hand resulting in events that are not to Sayaka's liking (such as him leaving her behind in order to pursue a worldwide career as a top violinist). Quote:
I'd say that usually the girls find that out, along with the viewer, as the series progresses. It's important to keep in mind, though, that real choice is rarely there for the magical girl. Either the Kyubey stand-in just literally forces the magical girl role unto the targeted teenage girl, or events conspire in such a way that the teenage girl becomes one out of immediate necessity (i.e. in order to save herself from a monster bearing down on her). Quote:
But it doesn't really do this by the magical girl role being drastically different in this anime than in other magical girl animes (at least not yet), but rather by simply putting a much greater emphasis on the danger aspect of the role compared to what most other magical girl animes do. In other words, Nanoha Takamachi's life isn't necessarily any safer than Sayaka's, but the danger aspect of it is generally emphasized less. Quote:
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2011-02-08, 14:27 | Link #122 | |
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Using your employee/manager scenerio, it would be asking for the manager to not show favortism rather than "ensure they are able to continue such tasks". |
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2011-02-08, 14:35 | Link #123 | ||
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If Kyuube had proactively taken steps to dismantle the advantage Kyoko gained through her own proactive attitude, that would be favoritism.
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2011-02-08, 14:40 | Link #124 | ||
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2011-02-08, 14:45 | Link #125 | |
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2011-02-08, 14:48 | Link #126 | |
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Friom Decagon's extraction of subs
ep 5 (10:00) [QB is sitting on a post] "Are you really going to take her on?" "Things may not go how you plan. There's another magical girl in town too." "I don't really know." "Maybe, maybe not." "She's an irregular. I can't tell what she's going to do." [Close up of QB watching Kyoko walk away.] Question i) Did he volunteer information Kyoko did not know? ii) Did he volunteer information Sayaka did not know? What is the conclusion on the subject of fainess and neutrality? Addendum: How did Kyoko even know who the new MS was, where she would be (far enough in advance to find a suitable location to spy) Quote:
An example of "taking the initiative" CEO: Hey John my company is going to be taken over by XYZ with a premium of 25 cents per share. The announcement's coming up tomorrow John: Wow great! I'll buy as much as i can today CEO: Wow you're really taking the initiative. Jack's dumb to not do the same John: You told Jack? CEO: No, but... but... he should have known what i was thinking! John: Yeah too bad for Jack's lack of initiative or else it wouldn't be just me raking it in or neither of us making money if you kept quiet. CEO, you're the best! CEO: Of course! You can always count on me being fair and impartial. Last edited by FlavorOfLife; 2011-02-08 at 15:04. Reason: Adding big labels because people will harp that the exmaple is different from the anime situation |
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2011-02-08, 14:55 | Link #127 | |
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Yes, he was manipulative about it when cutting out Sayaka out of the conversation and talking to Madoka in EP5. He called her the ace in the hole and says how he knows she'd do anything to protect her friends and it is him who brings up to her that the only way to stop Kyouko and Sayaka from fighting was her forming a contract. Personally I have seen more than a little information to see that QB isn't on the up and up.
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2011-02-08, 15:05 | Link #128 | ||||
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John: Hey CEO, I heard rumors things are changing in the company, can you fill me in? CEO: Sure, XYZ is happening. John: Oh, interesting. I'll prepare accordingly. Meanwhile, Jack is absorbed in his immediate concerns, and even though he can see the signs and the CEO has let him know enough since he took the job that he could know what questions to ask, he doesn't ask any, and the CEO decides not to bother if Jack isn't showing the drive to pursue that information.
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2011-02-08, 15:08 | Link #129 | |
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John: I'm going to absolutely pulverize that Jack when I track him down at the bar later tonight! How dare he move in on my ex-girlfriend like that?! Supervisor Mark: Are you really going to take him on? John: Of course I am! He needs to learn a lesson about moving in on my territory! Supervisor Mark: Things may not go how you plan. There's some strong guys that go to that bar, I hear. John: Oh, who are they? Do you know them? Do they work here? Supervisor Mark: I don't really know. John: Did they use to work here? Supervisor Mark: Maybe, maybe not. John: Then why did you bring them up? Supervisor Mark: I hear that they're pretty irregular people. I can't tell what they're going to do. Now, doesn't that come across as Supervisor Mark trying to talk John out of going after Jack at the bar?
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2011-02-08, 15:24 | Link #130 | |||
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You would then also be saying that it is Kyubei's duty to do this? He could not simply ignore it with the knowlege both would find out about each other sooner or later? Even more simply, why did he have to show up in the first place? Quote:
If you want to say Homura's so experienced she's hidden herself from Kyoko, then why would Homura be hiding given Mami is already dead as well as if she tracked Sayaka, she would have seen Homura show up after Sayaka's first battle hence she would have known. Quote:
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2011-02-08, 15:28 | Link #131 | |
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Even then if we argue that he was trying to stop Kyouko then we are still left to wonder why he didn't warn Sayaka while we warned her. Is he playing favorites? He just didn't state just the "raw information" to her he went out of his way to warn her against Homura. That would take away a bit from him being amoral to him more picking and choosing between the girls.
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2011-02-08, 15:29 | Link #132 | |
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Your example needs correction (in bold)
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Kyubei did not mention power and it was obvious from his sentence it was one person (and even than it was a "might" not a definitive answer) |
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2011-02-08, 15:41 | Link #133 |
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I'd like to also point out that when she does ask if he has a problem with it(her going after Sayaka) he doesn't say no just that things won't go as she had planned. I'd have to say he was warning her to be prepared, not trying to convince her not to go.
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2011-02-08, 15:55 | Link #134 | ||||||
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Well, at least you're willing to consider the possibility, to your credit.
That's all that I ask people to do. Quote:
Telling the potential surprise attack victim about the aggressor's intent may simply cause the brawl to happen even sooner (i.e. "Jack: So John was planning to sneak attack me at the bar, eh? That little punk... well, I have a surprise for him, then! Let's go, Matthew, we're going to have a few words with him then!") Quote:
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Let me explain why I choose the terminology that I did. I didn't use "friend" because neither did Kyubey. I enlarged the number and strength of the people involved, because I think Kyubey intended to give Kyoko the sense that this other magical girl could be a real threat to her (i.e. I think that the word "irregular" has a somewhat heavier meaning in the anime than it does in my analogy, so I felt I needed to compensate for that somehow). Quote:
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Edit: I just rewatched the scene between Kyubey and Kyoko where these lines come up. In doing so, two distinct impressions come across to me... 1. Kyoko has a mischievous grin on her face when she asks "Have a problem with that?". She's kind of teasing, if not mocking, Kyubey there, imo. To put it in internet terms, it's almost like typing "lol, u mad?" 2. Kyubey's tone in his reply to Kyoko has a slight touch of anger to it... which is quite something for Kyubey. I get the sense that he doesn't approve of Kyoko's plan, and hence wanted to throw a good reason against it back in her face for teasing/mocking him.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2011-02-08 at 16:06. |
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2011-02-08, 15:58 | Link #135 | |
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So basically what you are saying, is that Kyubei is fully able to defend/ escape from Kyoko if Kyoko become crazy and attack Kyubei. You proof is the scene between Homura vs Kyubei, at that scene you believe Kyubei is not in any immediate danger from Homura. If you fully embrace Kyubei dodge master theory then I have no other question. You can interpret any scene any way you want. I can fully see how you establish your argument now if you believe Kyubei is a master at dodging. All I can say is, one of us have a weird interpretation on that scene (which is not wrong, kinda like in a certain sitcom character found the Grinch to be a relatable and engaging character and rooting for the sun in frosty the snowman) I am just glad that I learn something new everyday. I never would have dream the Homura vs Kyubei scene can be interpreted that way.
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2011-02-08, 16:03 | Link #136 |
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Yes, its possible I never said it wasn't. Like I said there are a lot of possibilities though I tend to move away from that one considering that he didn't outright say that she shouldn't do it when he was given the chance. Now time for work...
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2011-02-08, 16:08 | Link #137 | ||
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Then change the word from friend to guy but would make your example quite redundant. The MS are in a group of their own. You might be better off if you changed the John, Jack and the other fella into boxers or a obviously physically capable group. Still would not change the impact though
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Mentioning theres just 1 possible threat in addition to the target is not the way to dissuade anyone. I could use the same idea here "Don't take the plane because it might crash" to dissuade someone from flying off to hawaii for their vacation. |
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2011-02-08, 16:08 | Link #138 | ||||
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Sayaka: Will someone take up Mami's task of protecting us from the witches? Kyubey: This has been Mami's territory for a long time, but the other magical girls won't ignore an opening. Kyubey: Another girl will be here soon to hunt witches. And here's Chihiro's non-speedsub version Kyubey: This has always been Mami's territory, but now that there's nobody guarding it, the other magical girls won't just sit back and watch. Kyubey: There will soon be others coming to deal with the witches here. Quote:
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2011-02-08, 16:17 | Link #139 | ||
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The basic point is this i) He was able to evade 6 out of 7 shots when wounded ii) The shot did not do visible damage (please feel free to point out where he had more red stuff showing after the shot) iii) Homura did not use her shunpo movement. Why? Final question i) Is he easy to kill? Seriously its just down to the final question. |
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2011-02-08, 16:36 | Link #140 | |
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