Accel World - Character Discussion - Yuniko

[Tusjecht]

That isn't a challenge, that was a slaughter; she beat him down in a few seconds flat, right? (IIRC).

I'm somewhat disappointed that we don't see high-level fights happening much anywhere, specifically Level 7/8/9 vs Level 7/8/9. We do have Crikin vs Nidhogg, Lotus vs Nidhogg, Raker vs Grey gunner guy in the OVA, and Lotus slaughtering a bunch of Linkers in the anime, but Lotus vs Radio puts them all to shame. At least thrice over.

[Sunder the Gold]

Originally Posted by tusjecht

That isn't a challenge, that was a slaughter; she beat him down in a few seconds flat, right? (IIRC).

"Earlier I was «challenged» by a daredevil once. I blew him away in 10 seconds.."

Because she was clearly toying with Silver Crow, rather than fighting seriously.

Probably, she could have just drawn her firearm and dominated him right at the start, but she wanted to put the fear of the Red King into him, and the Immobile Fortress is more intimidating.

I'm somewhat disappointed that we don't see high-level fights happening much anywhere, specifically Level 7/8/9 vs Level 7/8/9.

It would be niiice.


[qute]We do have Crikin vs Nidhogg, Lotus vs Nidhogg, Raker vs Grey gunner guy in the OVA, and Lotus slaughtering a bunch of Linkers in the anime[/quote]
Lotus' massacre was great. The whole Nidhogg fight was really interesting, but...

Most of Lotus' fight with Nidhogg was dodge-tanking, suffering major damage from a near-hit of Scorching Inferno, and then cutting off just a tooth.

Crikin and Nidhogg had just two exchanges of firepower. The Megamachine tanked a Scorching Inferno with scratch damage at best, delivered a powerful missile barrage, and then died to a single Scorching Inferno backed up by Charcoal Smoke.

It might have been a more even, give-and-take sort of fight, had Nidhogg been a normal Enemy. Because Nidhogg might have been STRONGER than Legendary Enemies usually are, as a tamed beast.

It depends on whether or not it originally had the Scorching Inferno attack before being tamed, or if being tamed merely imposed an SP cost on the attack.

Still, if Black Lotus truly does have the title "Legend Slayer", then like Blue Knight she ought to be capable of solo'ing a Legendary Enemy. Capable enough that she thought she even had a chance of defeating one of the Four Gods.

but Lotus vs Radio puts them all to shame. At least thrice over.

Agreed.

I felt that Lotus versus Radio was a much better example of "ancient master duel" than most examples in Naruto.

Itachi versus Kakashi, Itachi and Sasame versus Jiraiya, Jiraiya and Tsunade versus Orochimaru...

It's probaby because old and powerful ninja in Naruto are liable to have MANY more tricks than a Duel Avatar will ever have, so it feels like the author has always taken shortcuts to avoid thinking up dozens of techniques that the opponents will never actually use in that one fight.

But with Lotus and Radio, the author only needs to think of eight upgrades and only a few starter abilities per combatant. (IS skills don't count, since neither of them resorted to using those.) So, even though the author clearly held back on revealed all of their tricks, there isn't a strong sense that it's because he just didn't want to come up with those tricks.

(Hell, I'm pretty sure he'd already long decided on all of Lotus' powers.)

As a thought, neither Radio or Lotus seemed to land a single blow on each other, yet they filled up their Special Meters. Which means that they maxed out on SP simply from the damage their battle was incidentally inflicting to the environment.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by tusjecht

after consulting with another translator, I'll keep it as Kouzuki (with that line over the o)

Compromise reached.

Edit...not. Xplorer30 got back, he uses Koudzuki too. If you don't like it that much, Shiyumi, you might wanna look around for others who prefer Kouzuki too. The anime does make it sound like Kouzuki, but that's because they're native Japanese speakers (duh), rolling off the sounds so quickly they blend together. A native speaker and listenr would write it down as Koudzuki too, I think.

Actually, no they likely would not write it as Koudzuki. That would be because none of the major Japanese Romanization systems use dzu. Hepburn uses zu, Nihon-siki uses du, Kunrei-shiki uses zu. And the second two are currently part of the ISO standard for Japanese Romanization.

In short, dzu is an archaic, obsolete transliteration of ジ that's being depreciated. Modern international standard and official transliteration is zu or du, with zu being the preferred transliteration. And judging by this line from the main romanization article: "Kunrei-shiki romanization is a slightly modified version of Nihon-shiki which eliminates differences between the kana syllabary and modern pronunciation." the native speakers aren't saying dzu so quickly it blends into zu, pronunciation's actually shifted to zu.

[Shiyumi]

Still, if Black Lotus truly does have the title "Legend Slayer", then like Blue Knight she ought to be capable of solo'ing a Legendary Enemy. Capable enough that she thought she even had a chance of defeating one of the Four Gods.

In the fight against Nidhogg she only used Mode Green with increase defense(not counting Starsteam Burst). And when she fight serious she destroy the environment around her(like the fight against Edge). To fight against Four Gods she bring her entirely Legion, and she never thought she has a chance solo against a God. They in a different level compare to Legendary(like how Legendary to Wild class)

[Tusjecht]

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

Agreed.

I felt that Lotus versus Radio was a much better example of "ancient master duel" than most examples in Naruto.

As a thought, neither Radio or Lotus seemed to land a single blow on each other, yet they filled up their Special Meters. Which means that they maxed out on SP simply from the damage their battle was incidentally inflicting to the environment.

Definitely not by damaging the opponent indeed. You discussed before, Yellows would be practically armourless, and as for Lotus she's so fast and deadly at CQC, her defense has to be sacrificed. I'm betting a single hit to either of them would have been fatal.

Originally Posted by Krono

In short, dzu is an archaic, obsolete transliteration of ジ that's being depreciated. Modern international standard and official transliteration is zu or du, with zu being the preferred transliteration. And judging by this line from the main romanization article: "Kunrei-shiki romanization is a slightly modified version of Nihon-shiki which eliminates differences between the kana syllabary and modern pronunciation." the native speakers aren't saying dzu so quickly it blends into zu, pronunciation's actually shifted to zu.

Okay, but even then this would probably fall to Xplorer for the final call for consistency. And if nothing else, we're reading for the story and not for research or such; does the romanisation really matter?

Originally Posted by Shiyumi

In the fight against Nidhogg she only used Mode Green with increase defense(not counting Starsteam Burst). And when she fight serious she destroy the environment around her(like the fight against Edge). To fight against Four Gods she bring her entirely Legion, and she never thought she has a chance solo against a God. They in a different level compare to Legendary(like how Legendary to Wild class)

...I don't even...

Why Lotus used Mode Green, we can only guess, but chinese wiki has confirmed it as IS skill for increased defense, okay.

Why mention Starburst Stream if you're going to say it doesn't count? And not count towards what? Shiyumi, a quarter of the time I'm having to guess at what you're saying because of your incompetence with words. And for a technicality nut like Gold () that goes double or even triple.

Gold, you can open this spoiler if you already read the Chinese Wiki translation for KYH.

Spoiler for "Extracts from Chinese Wiki KYH:

They fought the Four Gods because they believed there's no other way to reach Level 10 to their error, but they did not fight only one! It's not that Lotus thought she had no chance against a God, she thought she has no choice!

And for the record, the five of them split to each target a different God. Who went for which ones doesn't matter because they were completely defeated by the two-minute mark.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by tusjecht

Okay, but even then this would probably fall to Xplorer for the final call for consistency. And if nothing else, we're reading for the story and not for research or such; does the romanisation really matter?

Yes, the romanization does matter. Pretty much any native english speaker that's received some education in Japanese is going to see "Kodzuki" and go "That's not Japanese." Plenty of anime fans without any formal education will go "That doesn't look right...". In short, writing it as Koudzuki is like writing Chiyuri's name as Tiyuri, and Fuuko's name as Huuko.

Also, the Accel World wikia uses Kōzuki. Any official translation will likely use Kouzuki or Kōzuki. If you go with Koudzuki, you will be the odd one out in contradiction with the rest of the internet.

I understand that the final call may not be yours, but the fact remains that writing it as dzu is basically wrong. As best I can tell, it's been wrong since the third edition of Hepburn back in 1886. The only time it's right is some uncommon exceptions where dzu was long established, and never changed, and Yuniko's name would not be likely to be among them.

[Sunder the Gold]

Originally Posted by tusjecht

Definitely not by damaging the opponent indeed. You discussed before, Yellows would be practically armourless, and as for Lotus she's so fast and deadly at CQC, her defense has to be sacrificed. I'm betting a single hit to either of them would have been fatal.

If Radio's baton was really that powerful, then yeah. As you say, I don't think Black Lotus' armor is all that strong.

Frankly, it's amazing that Radio was willing to engage Black Lotus at all. Even when Black Lotus wakes up, even when the jamming on the Red King is lifted, Radio stands his ground and doesn't retreat.

It's only when Chrome Disaster appears (AND Radio suffers a huge wound) that the Yellow King finally turns tail and runs.

But this is the same guy that flinched in fear just from Scarlet Rain threatening to fight back and retire him for good; he lets out an involuntary Eep despite the fact that she's still firmly in his trap AND the Black King is practically comatose.

Is he a coward or not?

But even a coward can forget fear when mad enough, and as much as Radio feared Lotus, he was plenty pissed that she was ruining his plan.

Shiyumi, a quarter of the time I'm having to guess at what you're saying because of your incompetence with words. And for a technicality nut like Gold () that goes double or even triple.

It's not fun, no.

But it's possible that English isn't Shiyumi's first language, in which case calling it "incompetence" is extremely inaccurate. I can't write Spanish or German AT ALL, despite taking classes in both.

[Awrya]

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

But this is the same guy that flinched in fear just from Scarlet Rain threatening to fight back and retire him for good; he lets out an involuntary Eep despite the fact that she's still firmly in his trap AND the Black King is practically comatose.

Is he a coward or not?

But even a coward can forget fear when mad enough, and as much as Radio feared Lotus, he was plenty pissed that she was ruining his plan.

Maybe the reason he fears Black Lotus less than Scarlet Rain is that he knows Lotus' fighting style from previous duels at lower levels as well as the fact that she is a CQC avatar.

I remember Radio's special move being illusion type and judging from his baton and its special ability, his fighting style probably is to stun/confuse enemies and use of hit&run tactics, which isn't a good match-up against Immobile Fortress.
Something like rock paper scissors, where yellow > blue > red >yellow?

[Tusjecht]

Originally Posted by Krono

Yes, the romanization does matter. Pretty much any native english speaker that's received some education in Japanese is going to see "Kodzuki" and go "That's not Japanese." Plenty of anime fans without any formal education will go "That doesn't look right...". In short, writing it as Koudzuki is like writing Chiyuri's name as Tiyuri, and Fuuko's name as Huuko.

Also, the Accel World wikia uses Kōzuki. Any official translation will likely use Kouzuki or Kōzuki. If you go with Koudzuki, you will be the odd one out in contradiction with the rest of the internet.

I understand that the final call may not be yours, but the fact remains that writing it as dzu is basically wrong. As best I can tell, it's been wrong since the third edition of Hepburn back in 1886. The only time it's right is some uncommon exceptions where dzu was long established, and never changed, and Yuniko's name would not be likely to be among them.

I don't trust the Accel World Wikia as much seeing as it's not coherently managed...but I'll consider.

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

If Radio's baton was really that powerful, then yeah. As you say, I don't think Black Lotus' armor is all that strong.

Frankly, it's amazing that Radio was willing to engage Black Lotus at all. Even when Black Lotus wakes up, even when the jamming on the Red King is lifted, Radio stands his ground and doesn't retreat.

It's only when Chrome Disaster appears (AND Radio suffers a huge wound) that the Yellow King finally turns tail and runs.

But this is the same guy that flinched in fear just from Scarlet Rain threatening to fight back and retire him for good; he lets out an involuntary Eep despite the fact that she's still firmly in his trap AND the Black King is practically comatose.

Is he a coward or not?

But even a coward can forget fear when mad enough, and as much as Radio feared Lotus, he was plenty pissed that she was ruining his plan.

Radio is bound to have plenty of experience fighting with and against Lotus, and he's pretty smart, I'll give him that, for setting the Armour on a Prominence member. I think this was his original plan anyway:

[Good spoiler.]

Spoiler for Radio's plan to wipe Prominence clean:

V13 says Prominence is the next smallest legion after NN, only 30-odd members.

We won't know for sure how well-known was it that Cherry Rook was Niko's parent, but considering the small legion size, it is entirely possible Radio wanted to force Promi into disarray by setting their King for a trap again, then killing Niko as fast as he can once he has some shred of evidence Niko can't kill her parent yet.

And Awrya has a point, it is entirely possible the antithesis of Yellows are Reds, who don't need to bother working a way around illusion magicking; Rain could - and did - carpet bomb the crater when surrounded by CCC members.

Radio was probably going after his biggest threat to Level 10 by taking her out through her parent. And that is sneaky indeed.

He probably only feared Lotus beforehand on the sole possibility she could behead him. But he didn't expect her to effectively join forces with Rain and blow his plan away.

[Sunder the Gold]

There is no Rock Paper Scissors with the colors.

Blue beats Red up close, Red beats Blue from afar, and with Yellow it depends on the trick. Yellow is much harder to generalize than the other two, because their tricks aren't as simple as Sword or Gun.

It may just be as simple as Radio having enough pride and ambition to set his fear aside to risk everything for the sake of advancing his situation. Especially when he's angry enough.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by tusjecht

I don't trust the Accel World Wikia as much seeing as it's not coherently managed...but I'll consider.

Perfectly reasonable, but it seems I didn't make my point in bringing up the wikia clear. The wikia's just one example. Wikipedia and Anime News Network use Kōzuki as well. A quick check of Hulu shows that the official USA English subs from Viz use Kozuki. Those are just the most prominent examples. My main point is that if you use Koudzuki, you would be at odds with essentially every major source for Accel World in English. For that matter, it would be at odds with the current translation of volume 2 on BT which uses Kouduki.

I'm sorry to belabor the point like this, I just don't want a decision made based on a misunderstanding.

[Tusjecht]

Hmm.

I guess I'll quote the essential points and see if I can convince Xplorer30. I can already go make the changes, but I hope you understand my need to notify the rest so that we can update the pages for consistency across the volumes.

Thanks!

[Sunder the Gold]

Spoiler for Bus (Volume 10 or so?):

So, what is the Nikobus?

Did she spend a lot of Burst Points to buy a completely new mecha (or somehow upgrade the old one), or use the Incarnate System to transform her armor?

Or did she decide to spend a Level Up bonus on something OTHER than long-range firepower once she hit Level 9, and she only now decided to reveal it?

If this is something she's had since before Yellow Radio's ambush, couldn't she have used it to escape?

Also, what can her sidearm, the Peace Maker, really do? She once called it her most powerful weapon.

[Tusjecht]

From V13:

Spoiler for Nikobus:

The Red King and some Red Rider-era Prominence members were nearly stomped by a Legendary Enemy. Defeating the Enemy yielded an Armament of sorts that let her convert her Fortress into the nicknamed Nikobus.

Unfortunately, the details of which I'm not clear of, because this is taken from a summary not made by me.

It's not been mentioned exactly how powerful can a shot from Peace Maker can go.