General Discussion on the Shichibukai [Manga]

[Wisshard]

Originally Posted by Dio23

sI mean the two on the prehistoric island at the beginning i mean for giants there weren't powerful at all .

I didn't get that impression of Dorry and Brogy at Little Garden, weren't they co-captains of a pirate ship of giants, the strongest giants on the ship? Or do memory serve me wrong?

[The_Three_Kings]

No, the two giants at Little Garden were strong. VERY strong..they only got defeated because they got tricked.

The only reason the government is doing it now and not before is because of Blackbeard. Blackbeard tipped the scales in the government's favor. Im pretty sure Shanks and Whitebeard are gonna fight together because they both want to save Ace. The Straw Hats might be involved too because the Yonkou vs. the Shichibukai and Marines would take up alot of chapters/episodes...so im pretty sure the Strawhats are gonna be involved, either that or they wont show up in the manga and anime for awhile.

[The Imadori]

Yeah the two giants WERE Strong but weaker than the current monsters in one piece (Supernovas, Shichibukai, admirals etc.). Anyway I don't belive in predicting ODA (failed to many times ) so I'm not gonna guess who or what the last shicjibukai is.
But I have to get something of my mind.
Kuma, Hawkeye and Blackbeard have proved to be increadible strong freaks of nature.
Moria is also VERY strong (but lazy), De Flamingo hasn't been seen in action much but he must be about kumas level and Jimbei quoted as the strongest of the shichibukai must not be mentioned.

But HOW........HOW did a guy with only a bounty of 80 milion berry and and such weak abilities (compared to the others) like crocodile make it into the shichibukai?

[The_Three_Kings]

I dunno. Im guessing Crocodile probably took down some high level pirate.

[Wisshard]

Originally Posted by The Imadori

Yeah the two giants WERE Strong but weaker than the current monsters in one piece (Supernovas, Shichibukai, admirals etc.).

How do we know? We never saw them fighting against anyway except against each other if memory serves me right.

Originally Posted by The Imadori

Jimbei quoted as the strongest of the shichibukai must not be mentioned.

Where was Jimbei quoted as the strongest Warlord? If I remember right, Jimbei was said to be the strongest fisherman not shichibukai.

Originally Posted by The Imadori

HOW did a guy with only a bounty of 80 milion berry and and such weak abilities (compared to the others) like crocodile make it into the shichibukai?

It doesn't matter how much your bounty are, only if you are known as a strong pirate by some act (like Blackbeard capturing Ace) so the marines can use you as imtimidation. Crocodile relied very much on his Logia, if someone didn't use the it's weakness against him I'd say he would be tough to beat, he was very proficient with his devil fruit.

[The Imadori]

@giant subject
well he nearly took out Luffy for starters and they killed a Seaking of about the seize of a small mountain each on their own. That should serve as prove to me.

@Jimbei
Nowhere. Since he apears late I highly suspect he's strong but me statement was based on a bad translation in the german Version. sorry
It's also hard to say who is exacly stronger in the Shichibukai. Blackbeard could beat nearly every Devil fruit user but Kumas "repell" power may be a matchup and then there are still those shichibukai without devil Fruit powers (Jimbei and Hawkeye I suspect). You can't realy make a ranking.

Except for Crocodile and that's what I ment. Ok he was a Logia usera nd if you don't have a seastone or the guys weakness you can't beat him. but compared to the other Shichibukai he wasn't that powerfull. And since the Shichibukai are selected by power I realy don't get how he got in.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Well, for story purposes, it would be quite ridiculous if at that point in the story where Luffy defeated Crocodile he defeated instead a warlord around Doflamingo's level of strength. Do you know how big of a gap there would be in strength between them? There is absolutely no way that Luffy would be able to have beaten someone so strong at that point in the story. Furthermore, the shichibukai have to be defeated at some point in the story. Just because Crocodile was the first to be defeated it doesn't necessarily make him such a weak opponent. Oda also probably made Crocodile as the first warlord to be defeated since he has a weakness that is very easy to exploit and because he is significantly weaker than the other warlords. He had to give Luffy an opponent that was reasonably close to his level of strength when his weakness was discovered. The defeat of Crocodile was also an event of great importance in the One Piece story, since it was the catalyst for a chain of very important events yet to come. Crocodile's strength was appropriate for the subsequent events to follow.

[The_Three_Kings]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Well, for story purposes, it would be quite ridiculous if at that point in the story where Luffy defeated Crocodile he defeated instead a warlord around Doflamingo's level of strength. Do you know how big of a gap there would be in strength between them? There is absolutely no way that Luffy would be able to have beaten someone so strong at that point in the story. Furthermore, the shichibukai have to be defeated at some point in the story. Just because Crocodile was the first to be defeated it doesn't necessarily make him such a weak opponent. Oda also probably made Crocodile as the first warlord to be defeated since he has a weakness that is very easy to exploit and because he is significantly weaker than the other warlords. He had to give Luffy an opponent that was reasonably close to his level of strength when his weakness was discovered. The defeat of Crocodile was also an event of great importance in the One Piece story, since it was the catalyst for a chain of very important events yet to come. Crocodile's strength was appropriate for the subsequent events to follow.

I completely agree. Crocodile heavily relies on his Devil Fruit Powers and when they are nullified, he is pretty defenseless except for his poison hook.

[Wisshard]

Originally Posted by The_Three_Kings

I completely agree. Crocodile heavily relies on his Devil Fruit Powers and when they are nullified, he is pretty defenseless except for his poison hook.

Yeah, Crocodile was very efficient with his Logia, having trained his Logia powers much more than for example Smoker, but his physical battle prowess was weak allowing Luffy to beat him so early in the story. So for story purpose, I find his place as a Shichibukai deserved duo to his Logia powers while his physical powers was weak comparing to the other warlords. The reason his bounty was low was also probably for story purpose, if Crocodile for example had a bounty of 250 million then Luffy's bounty would have reached a very high point early in the story. Instead Oda gave Crocodile a weakness and a low bounty, allowing Luffy to defeat him when he exploited it and also allowed for a more steady increase in Luffy's bounty.


EDIT: Ops, I didn't read Blackbeard D. Kumas post through before I posted, he essentially said what I said but better hehe.

[The Imadori]

Hm it's still difficult for me to think of him as one among the warlords but you're right the defeat was essential for the story and there is no way he could already have beaten a guy like Moria back then.

Just another lucky guesss what do you think what kind of Fishman Jimbei is? I highly suspect a whale man.

[Ermes Marana]

Crocodile isn't weak. While his fighting ability is not as high, his power makes up for it. The reason he lost was because Luffy used his weakness to nullify a lot of his power, and because he didn't take Luffy seriously (though it would be hard to take Water Luffy seriously). Remember Crocodile even said Water Luffy's attacks took a lot of his energy.

I actually think Crocodile would beat Lucci in a fight.

For that matter Enel would beat any of Luffy's other opponents even though Enel was defeated before Lucci or Moria. One of the good things about One Piece is there is no "power level", fights depend on what your individual skills, powers, and weakness are.

[The Imadori]

Enel was much stronger than any other vilian Luffy defeated so far. I personaly claim Enel was even stronger than Moria but that may be wrong. Luffy just had the luck of BEEING Enels weakness.

But there's my point again. Enel didn't crash and burn even though most of his abilities didn't work either. I'm not saying Crocodile was weak. Don't get that wrong. He definately wasn't. But he was weak for a shichibukai

[Ermes Marana]

I agree on Enel beating anyone Luffy has beaten so far.

I also agree Crocodile turned out to be the weakest Shichibukai.

But I can see why they thought he would be a valuable addition to the team. His offensive power is very good. Since he is a Logia, he can avoid damage that other Shichibukai would be hurt by.

Besides, maybe they didn't know how weak he was to water. It isn't really obvious in the same way rubber is an obvious weakness for Enel. If so, they would consider him almost invincible.

[Wisshard]

Originally Posted by The Imadori

Just another lucky guesss what do you think what kind of Fishman Jimbei is? I highly suspect a whale man.

That's the common theory yeah, as jinbei-zame means "whale shark" in Japanese. I think he is a very physically strong man, stronger than Tom, I also think he will have a fighting style that differs him from Arlong, since I don't think Oda would want two fights nearly identical.

[The_Three_Kings]

Well all DF users have a weakness to water, but Crocodile just has a little more of a disadvantage.

[BlackNhite]

Well all DF users have a weakness to water, but Crocodile just has a little more of a disadvantage.

I noticed something the first time I read through Croc's final fight with Luffy.

See, there's this one page where Crocodile gives Luffy a little insight to the "true" world of pirates, specifically those in search of One Piece. It's something along the lines of, "Pathetic wanna-be's such as yourself never last long, especially those with ambitions beyond their theshold. Out there on the sea... you'll find real monsters."

Just the way he delivers it, it almost seems like he's... somewhat jealous of Luffy, this kid who's so determined to follow his dreams in spite of any obstacle. That got me thinking something: is Crocodile honestly afraid of the sea?

It does make a lot of sense concerning his character: he's set up an organization of followers to travel about and do his bidding and is seeking to establish a permanent land-base in the form of the country of Alabasta.
His jealousy of Luffy's bravery also fits in here as yet another allusion to Cpt. Hook: a man who's greatest adversary had the ability to defy his greatest fear (refering to Hook's fear of the crocodile and Pan's ability to fly).

[The Imadori]

I agree with you at the fact that maybe he is jalous because Luffy could go to sea. Crocodiles ability, as powerfull as it may be on the land, is worth crap at the open sea where you're practicly surrounded by water.

Well it still works but as soon as an enemy sses through his weakness at sea he's done.

Which brings up the thought that Kidd is kind of overpowered at sea-battles. I know it's a little off subject but he can just pull the nails out of the enemy ships and sink them.

[BlackNhite]

Which brings up the thought that Kidd is kind of overpowered at sea-battles. I know it's a little off subject but he can just pull the nails out of the enemy ships and sink them.

Sheesh, just about anybody with magnet powers is OP, come on.
MAGNETO! Pulled the iron out of another man's blood!

But at any rate; so Whitebeard's crew is going to free Ace.

I'm psyched about this for a particularly odd reason. Since they're storming Impel Down, there's a big chance we may just Crocodile and his henchies again. I just really want to see what point he's at right now, having had his ambitions crushed and time to reflect on it.

I just rewatched the Croc vs. Luffy fight, yet again, the other night and, if you interpret the conversation as such, you almost get the feeling that at one time maybe Croc himself wanted to be Pirate King.

Think about it, it does make sense; he seeking to be the king of a great continent perhaps in place of becoming King of the Pirates. Something must have happened to him whilst out at sea, kept him from going any further, so he just decided to become a Shichibukai, null his bounty, and pursue something else.

I'm wondering, with all this time to think things over, will he again take up life on the seas? Interesting idea...

[Prestige]

Originally Posted by BlackNhite

Sheesh, just about anybody with magnet powers is OP, come on.
MAGNETO! Pulled the iron out of another man's blood!

But at any rate; so Whitebeard's crew is going to free Ace.

I'm psyched about this for a particularly odd reason. Since they're storming Impel Down, there's a big chance we may just Crocodile and his henchies again. I just really want to see what point he's at right now, having had his ambitions crushed and time to reflect on it.

I just rewatched the Croc vs. Luffy fight, yet again, the other night and, if you interpret the conversation as such, you almost get the feeling that at one time maybe Croc himself wanted to be Pirate King.

Think about it, it does make sense; he seeking to be the king of a great continent perhaps in place of becoming King of the Pirates. Something must have happened to him whilst out at sea, kept him from going any further, so he just decided to become a Shichibukai, null his bounty, and pursue something else.

I'm wondering, with all this time to think things over, will he again take up life on the seas? Interesting idea...

Oda stated on some interview that Crocodile was once much like Luffy,

He too dreamed to become Pirate King, but he eventually lost his dreams and become Schichibukai.

In One piece world dreams of men are more important than lifes of those men.

[Sakuranbo]

Originally Posted by james0246

My great hope is that the final Shichibukai will turn out to be female. There is a lack of top-tier female pirates in One Piece (there are powerful female subordinates, but few powerful female leaders). I know Oda is fairly "equal-opportunity" with his characters (it seems that one of the Yonkou is probably female (just based on the shadow and the lady from Thriller Bark (sorry, I have forgotten her name))), so it would be very nice if the final currently unknown Shichibukai was a woman.

I think it would be nice to have the final Shichibukai being a female. Perhaps a powerful non-DF user who specializes in speed/swordsmanship similar to FFIX's Beatrix.

I also wondered...

Spoiler for About Blackbeard...:

Since Blackbeard's position in the Shichibukai is only temporary, is it plausible to suspect that perhaps one of the current Supernova could take his place. My immediate guess would be Kidd, seeing as how he has the highest bounty out of the Supernovas, and only a few notches below Doflamingo, and Moria. Not to mention his past behavior, which resulted in many civilian casualties, and his Devil Fruit power is another good reason.