Nanoha Manga Discussion

[Koveras Alvane]

Originally Posted by aers

Distraction NEXT!

Spoiler for ship:

So is this her Divider, after all? If so, what's its serial number?

EDIT: Uh. Page claim for dual wielding?

[NorthernFallout]

Originally Posted by aers

Distraction NEXT!

Spoiler for ship:

"You persecuted me... Hunted my children... Vowed to burn my promised land to ash."

Sansha Kuvakei is impressed. But it needs more spikes.

[FRS]

I hope someone translate Stella 's sheet, there may be more info on the starship.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Perhaps in your zeal to be a devils advocate, you missed the part where I said I have already had a near-death experience. Let me rephrase it then, I have already been in a situation where my only option was to trust complete strangers with my life!

You said it yourself: it was your only option. Therefore your comparison doesn't hold, because the Huck's have more than one option.

And everyone who gets horribly injured has to trust their life to strangers, ie, paramedics, doctors in the emergency room, etc. Again, not analogous to the Huck's situation.

What was more analogous would have been trusting me, when you have the choice not to. Not hyperbole at all, because that is what you are expecting the Hucks to do: trust the Bureau with their freedom and lives when they have no reason to.

But yeah, we can abandon this discussion if you like.

Originally Posted by FRS

I hope someone translate Stella 's sheet, there may be more info on the starship.

Seconded. I'm actually more interested in the ship now; can she detach the two prongs and wield them as giant swords? Also, I do want to see the Force chapter in it's entirety to better make a judgment as to how things have gone down. I never like making judgments just based on pieces of information, because that can lead to a lot of wrong knee-jerk statements, heh.

And Nagumo, thanks for your Vivid translations! I agree with others that poor Corona is gonna lose straight out, whether she fights Ein or Sieg first. I'm betting Rio will lose in her second match, while Vivio, Ein, and Lu go a bit farther. Lu will probably lose out sometime, although she might last long enough to go up against Caro for real (and thus we'll be 'surprised' that Erio and Caro have joined up).

All that remains is how far Vivio and Ein will go. Vivio is taking this a bit more seriously, but it's still a bit of a hobby for her. Ein, however, still wants to prove her Kaiser Arts. She'd have to make a strong showing. I'm guessing that they will ultimately lose, but there will be a time skip, and then a Vivid II series where they are a few years older and trying to tournament again; this time perhaps with a more involved plot concerning their backgrounds.

At least, that's what I'm hoping.

[TheRainbowConnection]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

can she detach the two prongs and wield them as giant swords?

Now that I look at it, the spiky bits do remind me of Cross Mirage's second mode. If true, I can't wait to see Hayate's face aboard the Wolfram turn "not as planned". Capital ship battles aren't supposed to be like that!

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

All that remains is how far Vivio and Ein will go. Vivio is taking this a bit more seriously, but it's still a bit of a hobby for her. Ein, however, still wants to prove her Kaiser Arts. She'd have to make a strong showing. I'm guessing that they will ultimately lose, but there will be a time skip, and then a Vivid II series where they are a few years older and trying to tournament again; this time perhaps with a more involved plot concerning their backgrounds.

At least, that's what I'm hoping.

Said sequel must take place AFTER the events of FORCE, otherwise i don't think Vivio can concentrate on the tournament while her mother and friends are getting their butts slaughtered by some crazy villains xDU.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

can she detach the two prongs and wield them as giant swords?

What gave you that idea? Because the picture look at each prong separately? Concept art like this always breaks pieces off and looks at them individually. It's not indicative of anything.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

What gave you that idea? Because the picture look at each prong separately? Concept art like this always breaks pieces off and looks at them individually. It's not indicative of anything.

Heh, not really; mainly because they look like giant versions of Cypha's reacted swords. But it's probably just carrying on the Eclipse theme, since Deville's axe has a similar theme. It was more of a joke observation than anything. :P

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Seconded. I'm actually more interested in the ship now; can she detach the two prongs and wield them as giant swords? Also, I do want to see the Force chapter in it's entirety to better make a judgment as to how things have gone down. I never like making judgments just based on pieces of information, because that can lead to a lot of wrong knee-jerk statements, heh.

The Huckebein already proved that they aren't a Quirky Mini-boss Squad, they're more like a group of SNK Bosses working togheter(at least most of them). So i think it will be very amazing and threatening if Stella from her "ockpit" cast a pair of "virtual" swords to use that make the Huckship's sideblades to detach and act according to Stella's movements(looking closer at the image there is something loosely resembling a "masked face" on the center part of the ship). That will be pretty Boss-like xD.

While i haved doubts about Cypha or other Huckebein prowess in battle that's definetly not the case with Karen. She defeat two AEC armed opponents ina flash(being Vita and Erio of all people, i mean, she defeats ERIO!), stabs freaking Hayate from behind and not comformed with that she TOP herself on the very same Chapter by destroying a colossal Iceberg BIGGER thatn a friggin warship. That's not Haxed, that's fullblown overpowered. Maybe i'm not with her cause or aprove her family's actions but GOD that was incredible.

[Kaijo]

I think the iceberg was destroyed mostly by breaking Hayate's concentration, but it would make more sense for Karen to destroy it herself. I would have assumed if Hayate's concentration were broken, that the iceberg would just fall. That's still some HAX speed on Karen's part, though. But seeing as she's carrying a suspicious-looking book, it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that Karen was some kind of counterpoint to Touma.

[Akiyoshi]

Pretty much, even Veyron was refering to her like a very important person. Apparently Karen is involved with the Silver Cross Incident, i know that by this point this will most likely not to happen but it should be interesting to see a relationship between the Tome of the Night Sky and the Book of the Silver cross other than only being both ancient belkan books. I agree, tough. That Karen have undieniable boos-like traits. Let's see what happens.

[Alavon]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Is it just me or does Karen look an awful lot like an older...Isis?

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Alavon

Is it just me or does Karen look an awful lot like an older...Isis?

....

She does. Creepy.

Then again, it could simply be a side effect of having characters with similar designs. Eventually you end up with someone who looks like the older version of another character without meaning to, unless there's supposed to be some big reveal later down the line.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Alavon

Is it just me or does Karen look an awful lot like an older...Isis?

Shocking revelation is shocking 0_0!

Suddenly truns out that Karen is Isis's Big Sis xD!

[Alavon]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

....

She does. Creepy.

Then again, it could simply be a side effect of having characters with similar designs. Eventually you end up with someone who looks like the older version of another character without meaning to, unless there's supposed to be some big reveal later down the line.

I was thinking along those lines as well. It was probably just a coincidence but it made me do a double-take. As soon as I saw Karen, I thought for a moment it was Isis. I actually support the Cyborg Theory but who knows. Perhaps they are connected in some ways...

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Shocking revelation is shocking 0_0!

Suddenly truns out that Karen is Isis's Big Sis xD!

My thoughts exactly.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

You said it yourself: it was your only option. Therefore your comparison doesn't hold, because the Huck's have more than one option.

And their other option is murdering dozens upon dozens of people. The fact they choose that option over their other option is a pretty evil thing to do. Human life is worth so little compared to their own, they're not willing to make sacrifices in order to prevent themselves from killing innocent civilians. I fail to see how this is any different from killing some one and cutting out their heart because you need a heart transplant. And if you don't consider that evil, either...Then well, I have nothing more to say... And for goodness sakes, at least show some guilt, but they don't even have that going for them. Some say they'd turn to this option if the same thing happened to them, that may be true, but I bet it would still make you feel terrible for doing it. The Hucks, however, show no sign of remorse. I don't care how they were before, because that doesn't change what they are now. It's not like people are born evil.

[Jimmy C]

This talk about Karen looking like Isis, remember back when people used to say Isis looked a lot like Subaru?

[Alavon]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

This talk about Karen looking like Isis, remember back when people used to say Isis looked a lot like Subaru?

I think I started that, too. ^^; (I actually said that, as a joke, she might be Subaru's future daughter....heh)

That was where the Cyborg Theory began. It could be one or another. Or neither. But I have to say that Isis clearly did not want to mix herself with the TSAB for unknown reasons. And how did a clothes vendor acquired a barrier jacket? We hardly know anything about her. But her resemblance to Karen is uncanny to say the least.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Demi.

And their other option is murdering dozens upon dozens of people. The fact they choose that option over their other option is a pretty evil thing to do. Human life is worth so little compared to their own, they're not willing to make sacrifices in order to prevent themselves from killing. I fail to see how this is any different from killing some one and cutting out their heart because you need a heart transplant. And if you don't consider that evil, either...Then well, I have nothing more to say...

Demi, i'm with you but we already telled them that, also we're exposed various examples similar to that. It's our own viewpoint and they don't share it. Kaijo, think a bit before answer because i feel that you answered this question many times now, and your answer won't be much different from the ones you already posted.

Resume. I and some people think they're evil because they refuse any other option and decided to kill people(even innocents) to avoid dying, an we think that is a bad think to do regarless of the reasons, intentions and results "the end DON'T justify the means".

Kaijo and other people appeal more to the grey nature of humans and the arbitrary nature of existence itself, claiming comprehension for the Huckebein because they're cornered into making said descicion, resorting to kill in regards to the natural reaction of survival instinct thus justifyng their actions, in other words, their end justify their means.

I can't agree with that point of view, i probably never be able to accept said position towards human life and some people here neither. Kaijo and other people probably think that it's a foolish and idealistic view of life and they have their own reasons, knowledge or experience to deny those principles and making their own. Again, this discussion doesen't belong here anymore and we're letting this to be blown out of proportion. The Huckebein will be whatever Tsuzuki wants them to be. I think they're evil, you think they're not, but we both can agree that they're are a threat and that at least some of them are interesting characters. and i think this is what this forum is about.

[Kaijo]

Without trying to open the can of worms back up too much, I will say this: it's often very hard for people living a comfortable life style, to really understand the feelings of those who have been hurt and disadvantaged in life. Go ahead and tell someone who is depressed a lot to just "shake it off." Tell someone who hasn't been able to get a girlfriend that it will "just happen."

You can sit in your warm room, in a comfy chair, in front of your computer and easily say, "Well, the choice is obvious!" To people in worse situations, who struggle to survive, who have been shunned by society and called names like "poison", who are attacked on sight... Yes, "stealing" is wrong. But go ahead and call the little child who steals a loaf a bread "evil."

When you get down on your luck, and are forced to do "evil" things to survive, you certainly won't think of them as evil then. You'll feel entirely justified to do what it is you're doing, because humans have ever been the masters of self-justification.

I will say one thing: The manga has yet to really show us the backstory of the Hucks. I am making a guess that, when they do, I suspect sympathies will shift. I bet a lot of people disliked the Wolkenritter and would have called them evil, until the episode that explained their existence. After all, in the very first episode, Vita is standing over two people and she pulls something out of them; it very much looked like she had just killed them.

Now, on a different note:

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

This talk about Karen looking like Isis, remember back when people used to say Isis looked a lot like Subaru?

As I've said many times before in the past, we humans like to find patterns in chaos, even when no patterns are actually there. And yes, someone's art style will lend themselves to possible likenesses. Thus, if you look hard enough, statistically speaking, you're going to find connections. Whether these are real connections or not, we can't say until it happens. But that's how conspiracy theorists operate.

So I kinda agree with you, Jimmy. I don't think there is any actual connection there. At least, I won't consider it such based on looks alone. I'll wait until the characters in-universe make the "Hey, you look like so-and-so!" connection. The Hucks, when they were holding Isis, obviously didn't recognize her, nor think she looked like Karen.

Then again, if we want to go there... perhaps Karen gave birth to Isis before she became infected with the Eclipse. Knowing what it meant and thus not wanting to infect or kill her baby, Karen gave up Isis to be adopted. Years later, Isis leaves her adopted family and strikes out on her own.

There's a theory for everyone; stick it in your pipe and smoke it.