Death Note - Episode 37 [END] Discussion / Poll

[Nevflinn]

Sorry for taking so long on this one: I got confused by how you quoted your reply and didn't actually see your remarks for a while.

Well I have to say here is really that is your own personal choice and I also believe that whole arrogant, self-conceited idiot part - that's pure speculation and I am not sure if you even understand the definition of an arrogant or conceited person; it sure does not seem like you do - and if you do it's a weak understanding. - Friendly point.

Pure speculation? Are you trying to say that Light wasn't insane or egotistical?

Well obviously Light/Kira had to have some trust in people (Misa for one, or even Ryku). I mean didn't Light even say he gave Ryku the death after L's death to go find somebody who is trusting and shares the same ideals as Light? So Nev, it seems you're wrong here because Light did have some trust into people but he also did have the skill of manipulation and within that trust he used it perfectly.

Just because it looked like a co-operative effort on the exterior does not mean that it actually was deep down. He didn't have to do a thing on his end to get Misa to do what he wanted, and Ryuk only did what very little he did (what did he do again?) to keep the game going.

I am not quite sure what you're missing here Nev but listen closely. Light did have trust into Mikami, he always complimented him, maybe you should re-watch them episodes. Light had the only relationship he could have with Mikami, what more else do you want? Them to go out for coffee and discuss their plans? Come on everything was perfect, Mikami made a mistake an easy one because he thought Kira couldn't act and so Mikami acted for him - now it was against the rules Light commanded but Mikami thought it was the right move. Nothing to do with trust, just mistake and a misread.

He complimented him like a servant who kept the game going, when in reality Mikami was more than that beyond Light's impressions.
What would have proven that Light could find it in himself to trust someone would be to put himself on a mental position of equality, or even inferiority to someone else - to show that he was willing to give. That was something Light never did and would never allow himself to do due to his personal flaws; because of the person he became after discovering the death note.

That is also, from my view, where the mistake and misread were made possible, and why Light lost.

Mikami was an idiot because he went against Light's orders which in conclusion cost Mikami and Light their lives. So yes, I stand by my claim - Mikami is an idiot.

So I do have to repeat myself after all. Gotcha.

"
Look at it this way before being so harsh on Mikami: what if Light hadn't been able to sit in the back of the car on the way to "arrest" Takada?

That twist of chance would mean Light could not kill Takada in time. That raises two possible outcomes, leaving everything to depend on Mikami. He could either go to the bank as he should have and kill Takada (the important fact that is overlooked here is that Light had told Mikami he was unable to move, among the few things he divulged to him that he should have), or stay back and do nothing.
In the event of the former, then Gevanni him having balls of steel and whatnot trails him and locates the real Death Note anyway, but Light may possibly realise that Mikami had killed Takada and tries his best to readjust the plan. In the event of the latter, Takada lives and the Death Note paper is found, and Aizawa would have enough proof of Light's doings and arrest him.

The point that I either did not convey appropriately or you simply overlooked was that Light could not have possibly asked for a better ally than Mikami. He thought like Light, he felt like Light, and he was smart and loyal enough to be his apprentice. Yet Light used him as a pawn instead of a partner: the very same way he treated everyone. It was difficult for them to communicate, but they communicated through Takada - that was time enough for Light to talk enough with him. Yet he did not use it, most likely because he didn't respect anyone enough to treat them on even footing."

Mhm Mhm plausible, however, do you really think everyone knew about their meeting? My guess is no, I believe just the two parties knew about this. So if Light does or is able to kill majority of them then guess what - he still has a chance.

He has a chance, yes, if he's able to kill all of them, even though he'll have to do a lot of work to clean up the crime scene so there's no link back to him. The problem is that it's impossible for him to kill even a single one.

lol, Fallacy.

I just gave my opinion on it. I don't see why I can't - it's what I've been doing since the start.

Thanks pal.

You're welcome.

[Sinfully Naomi]

Originally Posted by Nevflinn

Pure speculation? Are you trying to say that Light wasn't insane or egotistical?

Flight Yagami was soooooooo full of himself. :3

Just because it looked like a co-operative effort on the exterior does not mean that it actually was deep down. He didn't have to do a thing on his end to get Misa to do what he wanted, and Ryuk only did what very little he did (what did he do again?) to keep the game going.

Ryuk ate apples and served as a comic relief.

He complimented him like a servant who kept the game going, when in reality Mikami was more than that beyond Light's impressions.
What would have proven that Light could find it in himself to trust someone would be to put himself on a mental position of equality, or even inferiority to someone else - to show that he was willing to give. That was something Light never did and would never allow himself to do due to his personal flaws; because of the person he became after discovering the death note.

That is also, from my view, where the mistake and misread were made possible, and why Light lost.

I would even go as far as to say that they were pseudo complements. Light even said "Mikami's ideals and thoughts are exactly(or close) to my own." It's not like he was even complementing him, more like Light was giving himself yet ANOTHER pat on the back.

[Nevflinn]

Originally Posted by Sinfully Naomi

Flight Yagami was soooooooo full of himself. :3

I AM KIRA! I AM JUSTICE! I SHALL BE THE GOD OF A NEW WORLD!! HAHAHAHA AHUHAOWTUHWALUGHJAWEIUGNHWIUGJWAIYK!!!

Ryuk ate apples and served as a comic relief.

While those were his most endearing features, Ryuk was really the observer of the whole story: if Death Note had to be told from any one perspective, it would be his. His relationship with Light is also, I find, one of the most significant in the entire story - while they do have what you could call an awkward friendship, as Ryuk is the only person before the end to see the real Light, and does respect his intellect, he considers him ultimately as a toy. The ironic contrast between Ryuk's nature (and that of his realm, for that matter) and Light's desires foreshadow pointlessness and ruin, especially if Light were to succeed. While Light thinks of himself as a god, Ryuk proves that he's just a god's plaything.

I would even go as far as to say that they were pseudo complements. Light even said "Mikami's ideals and thoughts are exactly(or close) to my own." It's not like he was even complementing him, more like Light was giving himself yet ANOTHER pat on the back.

Quite true, actually. If I recall, he considered this in an almost threatening tone, didn't he?
God, what a douche.

[Kytherno]

The last episode was video perfection. The last episode is epic win.

It was much better than the manga, in which Light is basically crying and whining to Ryuuk.

It's funny though, how the show got kids suspended from school and had people murdering others and writing "I am Kira".

[ArrowSmith]

Originally Posted by Kytherno

The last episode was video perfection. The last episode is epic win.

It was much better than the manga, in which Light is basically crying and whining to Ryuuk.

It's funny though, how the show got kids suspended from school and had people murdering others and writing "I am Kira".

There will always be psychopaths who try to use media as justification for their actions. If Kira really existed he's exterminate every last one of those types.

[Nevflinn]

Originally Posted by ArrowSmith

There will always be psychopaths who try to use media as justification for their actions. If Kira really existed he's exterminate every last one of those types.

Ehm, dude? Kira is one of those psychopaths.

[ArrowSmith]

Originally Posted by Nevflinn

Ehm, dude? Kira is one of those psychopaths.

It's true Light had a psychopathic break at the end when Near defeated him, but prior to that he was very rational. Wouldn't any of us react like that if we had the rug pulled out from under us? Think about it - one moment Light thinks he's about to become "Emperor of the Earth" and the next he is going to prison for life. I think that would cause a psychotic break in most people.

[Nevflinn]

Originally Posted by ArrowSmith

It's true Light had a psychopathic break at the end when Near defeated him, but prior to that he was very rational. Wouldn't any of us react like that if we had the rug pulled out from under us? Think about it - one moment Light thinks he's about to become "Emperor of the Earth" and the next he is going to prison for life. I think that would cause a psychotic break in most people.

I spoke about the "Anyone would have broken down" rubbish previously with Yamagi. If you want I can link it back.

Very rational? I...really, really can't figure out how to correct you whilst not coming across condescendingly. Just please: go watch the episodes again and take heed to all the times he rambles about his ambitions to become bigger than Jesus (and I do mean all of them), every time his eyes and hair glow red, every time he hurls up something ridiculous like "I'll take a potato chip, AND EAT IT!", every time he relishes gleefully or callously the notion of murdering a fellow human being or actually doing so...All of those and many more.

He was turned insane from the moment he killed that biker. This is not subjective.

[ArrowSmith]

Originally Posted by Nevflinn

I spoke about the "Anyone would have broken down" rubbish previously with Yamagi. If you want I can link it back.

Very rational? I...really, really can't figure out how to correct you whilst not coming across condescendingly. Just please: go watch the episodes again and take heed to all the times he rambles about his ambitions to become bigger than Jesus (and I do mean all of them), every time his eyes and hair glow red, every time he hurls up something ridiculous like "I'll take a potato chip, AND EAT IT!", every time he relishes gleefully or callously the notion of murdering a fellow human being or actually doing so...All of those and many more.

He was turned insane from the moment he killed that biker. This is not subjective.

Yeah thanks for reminding me about the glowing red eyes. Yeah Light was a psycho, but one that could have done great things if that sanctimonious POS L had simply stayed out of the way.

[Sinfully Naomi]

Light could've done great things without the Death Note as well. No matter how misguided he may have become, he was a genius, no getting around that. He never needed it to do great things. It wasn't a matter of L getting in the way. More like, the Death Note was what was really in the way. I mean, look at him after he relinquised ownership of the Death Note. You could see his opposition to anything wrong. Even something something as small as manipulating a woman's heart. It was the Death Note that deterred him from his original, and righteous self.

[ArrowSmith]

Originally Posted by Sinfully Naomi

Light could've done great things without the Death Note as well. No matter how misguided he may have become, he was a genius, no getting around that. He never needed it to do great things. It wasn't a matter of L getting in the way. More like, the Death Note was what was really in the way. I mean, look at him after he relinquised ownership of the Death Note. You could see his opposition to anything wrong. Even something something as small as manipulating a woman's heart. It was the Death Note that deterred him from his original, and righteous self.

Oh please, blaming an inanimate object for corrupting good & righteous Light? He was already corrupt.

[Sinfully Naomi]

Originally Posted by Sinfully Naomi

Light could've done great things without the Death Note as well. No matter how misguided he may have become, he was a genius, no getting around that. He never needed it to do great things. It wasn't a matter of L getting in the way. More like, the Death Note was what was really in the way. I mean, look at him after he relinquised ownership of the Death Note. You could see his opposition to anything wrong. Even something something as small as manipulating a woman's heart. It was the Death Note that deterred him from his original, and righteous self.

.... Uhm.... yeah, I'll continue to blame it until, you see Light acting like an ass without the Death Note.

[Gaawa-chan]

Originally Posted by ArrowSmith

Oh please, blaming an inanimate object for corrupting good & righteous Light? He was already corrupt.

I agree to an extent. He clearly twisted his morals to suit his own needs even when he didn't have his memories. He kept vital information from L that could have saved them both, like the fact that he met Naomi Misora, and he did so just so that he wouldn't rouse L's suspicions.
If Light were a just person, he'd be seeking the truth even if it turned out that he was Kira. He would not have withheld information like that.

[ArrowSmith]

Originally Posted by Gaawa-chan

I agree to an extent. He clearly twisted his morals to suit his own needs even when he didn't have his memories. He kept vital information from L that could have saved them both, like the fact that he met Naomi Misora, and he did so just so that he wouldn't rouse L's suspicions.
If Light were a just person, he'd be seeking the truth even if it turned out that he was Kira. He would not have withheld information like that.

Wrong. He met Naomi Misora when he possessed the Death Note. So naturally he wouldn't remember that.

[4Tran]

All right, can we go about and discuss points without all of this mudslinging?

Originally Posted by Sinfully Naomi

Light could've done great things without the Death Note as well. No matter how misguided he may have become, he was a genius, no getting around that. He never needed it to do great things. It wasn't a matter of L getting in the way. More like, the Death Note was what was really in the way. I mean, look at him after he relinquised ownership of the Death Note. You could see his opposition to anything wrong. Even something something as small as manipulating a woman's heart. It was the Death Note that deterred him from his original, and righteous self.

It's worth pointing out that we never get a clear picture of what Light was like before he received the Death Note to begin with. His inner feelings after losing his memory might have been quite different from what he originally was like.

[Sinfully Naomi]

That's a very good point. But still, losing ALL memories of the Death Note, his inner feelings should only have changed from the events happening. But, it does seem more likely that his morals remained unchanged. When he lost his memories he didn't want to believe that he was Kira, despite the fact that he questioned himself, he showed that he did not want to, nor would he take it upon himself to kill criminals as such. I still believe that he was corrupted by the Death Note for the reason. He also felt guilty after his first murder, as do many. He lied to himself to justify his actions, but still, the fact that he has to do that showed that his morals were changed in the process of using the Death Note.

[Nevflinn]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

All right, can we go about and discuss points without all of this mudslinging?


It's worth pointing out that we never get a clear picture of what Light was like before he received the Death Note to begin with. His inner feelings after losing his memory might have been quite different from what he originally was like.

But you see, we do get a clear picture. It's almost spelled out for us, in the crucial moment that is Light's personality during the Yotsuba arc. The Light Yagami we see then is very, very different to Kira, the Light we know for most of the series. He puts other people first, he shows genuine concern when Misa and others are in trouble, he doesn't put himself before anyone else. He is his father's son, an ideal human being, save for a few flaws he has yet to grow out of.

Seriously; had the Death Note arrived into Light's possession a couple of years later, when he would be a grown university student and policeman, there'd be a lot more reluctance to becoming a psychopath, if not probably a refusal.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Sinfully Naomi

That's a very good point. But still, losing ALL memories of the Death Note, his inner feelings should only have changed from the events happening.

While there is some truth to that, it's not something that is necessarily supported by the show. Moreover, for this conjecture to have much weight, it would have to mean that Light was irrecovably warped the moment that he touched the Death Note, and that's something that we know not to be the case of the other characters. It would also mean that nothing that Light did in the entire story was meaningful (i.e. it would all be because of the Death Note), and that runs counter to just about every theme that's promoted by the story.

Originally Posted by Sinfully Naomi

But, it does seem more likely that his morals remained unchanged. When he lost his memories he didn't want to believe that he was Kira, despite the fact that he questioned himself, he showed that he did not want to, nor would he take it upon himself to kill criminals as such.

That's not a surprising turn of events either way. Removed from the proper context, it's not unusual for people to be disgusted with the acts that they themselves perpetuate. When Light retained his memories though, he also recalled the contexts and self-justifications for doing so.

Originally Posted by Nevflinn

But you see, we do get a clear picture. It's almost spelled out for us, in the crucial moment that is Light's personality during the Yotsuba arc. The Light Yagami we see then is very, very different to Kira, the Light we know for most of the series. He puts other people first, he shows genuine concern when Misa and others are in trouble, he doesn't put himself before anyone else. He is his father's son, an ideal human being, save for a few flaws he has yet to grow out of.

In other words, he acts exactly as he tries to present his public persona. I haven't watched the show in a couple of years now, is there any episode that proves that:
A. It wasn't an act,
B. Light was genuinely concerned in a situation where he wouldn't have been previously?

[Light_Yamagi_Kira]

Light was bored - that was his cause of corruption. I am almost positive the author wanted the readers to realize this, seeing how every description of Light started off with "A bored intelligent man." I mean all this showed is that the author wanted Light to fit the description of a typical serial killer - but with her own twists. Some of the most notorious serial killers were all geniuses: Jack the Ripper, Ted Bundy and even the fictional serial killers, JigSaw, Dr. Hannibal Lecture. Light fitted these characteristics to a tee, the only difference was he had a super natural ability. Light, up until the last episode, showed no emotion, no remorse, no fear, and stuck to his plan. There is also a quote in the last episode that knocks my point home. Light Yagami was insane - Light became so corrupt by his power and became arrogant and truly thought he was a GOD. Well Near - said "No, you're nothing but a serial killer." After Light proclaimed his power - well as you can see Light never thought he was insane, because by definition someone who is insane does not know they are. However, Light did not become insane until late in the series - in my opinion; simply because he always had a calm and cool plan to rid his enemies and cover everything up. Even though he was arrogant he never let that get in his way of his choices. It's interesting to say the very least but I would say that the author did an excellent job of creating a serial killer. Sick thing is - he would have be successful if not for a minor mistake.

[ArrowSmith]

Originally Posted by Light_Yamagi_Kira

Light was bored - that was his cause of corruption. I am almost positive the author wanted the readers to realize this, seeing how every description of Light started off with "A bored intelligent man." I mean all this showed is that the author wanted Light to fit the description of a typical serial killer - but with her own twists. Some of the most notorious serial killers were all geniuses: Jack the Ripper, Ted Bundy and even the fictional serial killers, JigSaw, Dr. Hannibal Lecture. Light fitted these characteristics to a tee, the only difference was he had a super natural ability. Light, up until the last episode, showed no emotion, no remorse, no fear, and stuck to his plan. There is also a quote in the last episode that knocks my point home. Light Yagami was insane - Light became so corrupt by his power and became arrogant and truly thought he was a GOD. Well Near - said "No, you're nothing but a serial killer." After Light proclaimed his power - well as you can see Light never thought he was insane, because by definition someone who is insane does not know they are. However, Light did not become insane until late in the series - in my opinion; simply because he always had a calm and cool plan to rid his enemies and cover everything up. Even though he was arrogant he never let that get in his way of his choices. It's interesting to say the very least but I would say that the author did an excellent job of creating a serial killer. Sick thing is - he would have be successful if not for a minor mistake.

I just don't buy that Light would get sloppy until he destroyed Near. The authors needed Light to be defeated. A copout ending.