2013-01-08, 04:03 | Link #2641 | |
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Second, while the rest of the game was invisible to us, we've seen Shizu's overall performance in the final rounds of the quarterfinals match. The players, at the time, were Ryuuka and two assumed relatively weak players (at least compared to Himeko and Awai); Ryuuka is likely gathering data and not really trying to stop other players from contenting for second, so give Achiga's predicament at that moment, it was in Shizu's best interest to go all out and win second place with a grand margin. Yet, even taking away the last two hands, her net score for the round is still only +1700 - not the type of score that a player with an overwhelming ability is capable of. For a round that literally meant life or death for Achiga, Shizu showed us no hints of an ability stronger than that she has the determination to overcome the most daunting of situations. I am (as I imagine a lot of people would be) fine with, say, Yuu showing her ability even though her match with Bansei is mostly skipped: there was absolutely nothing in the Bansei match - scores or anything - that even tells us what sort of ability she has or doesn't have. The quarterfinals, though, was able to give us a ton of information about the players; if Ritz went against that and gave Shizu a hax ability that could work against cream of the crop players like Himeko and Ryuuka, then it would really stretch the imagination to wonder why the heck she didn't use them in the quarterfinals to gain a lead when the risk of losing is so real. There is more evidence of Shizu's lack of a powerful ability, also, in Achiga's anime-only practice matches against Tsuruga/Kazekoshi that served as a very excellent gauge for where Achiga's abilities currently stand. And if there is one thing that Saki has never done in the past, it's arbitrary shonen power-ups. Yuuki was the only character that grew noticeably stronger as time goes on, and her development was done in a way that makes sense (namely - her ability is the same, but she instead increased her skill and mitigated the weaknesses of her ability). Plus, it's a gradual development, not instant overpowering. Having Shizu do a shonen power-up and gain some super ability goes flatly against the established conventions of the manga so far. And honestly, I do hope that Ryuuka gets more development. I don't care if Senriyama is destined to lose or anything like that, but for her to basically say "I have no character of my own, and Toki is making me win" after the hype would really make her a flat character for me. Even someone like Himeko, who's ability is explicitly defined as building on the successes of another player, showed us that she's a skilled player in her own right by winning that 1-Han hand despite the restriction. It would really make me sad if they left Ryuuka's character as just Toki's accessory for life. TBH, though, there were a lot of things that annoyed me about the Achiga manga. The third year in the Inter-High thing, for instance, doesn't even have a shred of support for it in the main manga, and seemed really out of place given how decently players like Ako and, on the other side, Nodoka usually does in their matches. More specifically, it's saying that, for instance, Megan Devin and most of Ryuumonbochi should have been terrible in the inter-highs last year, that Satoha should not have achieved her prestige in the final rounds, and that pretty much every first/second year player that wasn't Kei, Koromo, or Jindai should have just outright been terrible against a third-year player. We saw how well that theory worked out. Last edited by Felyndiira; 2013-01-08 at 05:00. Reason: Incomplete sentence, oops. |
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2013-01-08, 05:22 | Link #2642 | |
エーレンフェストの聖女
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dollars
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I don't know about that... even Yuuki seems like that she got an instant powerup. For me, it just feels that she isn't getting any instant powerup because we know her since the first chapter and all of her matches are shown completely. Because of that we got the gist of her gradual development... but then suddenly she became so strong in preliminary and semi-final because of what? A not-shown training arc with Koromo and the other? In my opinion, Shizu would be the same as her if we know everything about her matches and how her traits in matches were shown. Who's to say that she's not improving on each of her match when we don't even know how she's playing?
She might not have any godlike ability that'll overpower her opponents (or else she wouldn't have a hard time in her previous matches), but I believe that she has some sort of ability that would make her a fearsome opponent. For me, that last match of her was pretty scary considering that she could pull off something like that after getting screwed up by furiten. tl;dr, in my opinon as long as her abiity isn't something ridiculous like Awai's supernova or Saki death kan then I wouldn't really call it a total ass-pull. I get this feeling that it's not her ability that's troublesome but her traits at not giving up and actually pulled of at the end is what makes her troublesome though. Heck, I don't think that she has any specific ability at all. ...and yeah, it's more like deus ex if I think about it.. but shit like that are what makes mahjong scary for me. I got this one person who often turn around the match by getting high score at the end and take the 1st-2nd place because of it. People like that scares me more than someone with occult ability in mahjong. On that note.. the newest chapter states that Shizu has figured out something. Maybe she'll find a leeway using strategy by Akado? or maybe something like her previous match will happen again and she'll find a way for her to win by herself? In any case, let's just see how Shizu will play in the next chapter before complaining whether she'll get a bullshit powerup or not. Quote:
Oh and it's not like the current third year would be weak last year. They just got a passive abiity that would make them easier to reach tenpai compared to their previous year... it's a good power up but it doesn't mean that they're terrible during their previous year when fighting against a third year. They might have a hard time than it used to, but I believe that their natural ability would work it out and might still be able to come up at the top. After all, being in tenpai wouldn't mean nothing if you're not getting any score.
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2013-01-08, 05:50 | Link #2643 |
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Oh my word! Much as I like Toki, telepathic ghost Toki is just hilarious! I suppose it really is no holds barred now and anything is possible. Since she's watching the match on TV, why doesn't Toki use her telepathic powers to tell Ryuuka what tiles everyone is holding while she's about it? She could pass on the pro analysis too, that would probably be quite helpful. LOL!
And once again I make this plea: please, please don't tell me Shizu of all people is the final boss! This whole story has been a bit of a mess, quite frankly, but that would be the final insult! |
2013-01-08, 07:22 | Link #2644 | ||||||
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And there's a significant difference between Yuuki's training camp and the training that Achiga went through. Between the qualifications and Nationals, Hisa organized a full training camp with the four final schools in Nagano specifically to improve the skill level of Kiyosumi. We can assume that they had at least a few weeks to train and work on Yuuki's very visible weaknesses. Achiga, on the other hand, was last seen playing in the quarterfinals; they explicitly only had two days to improve between their match with Senriyama and the one with Shirotodai. We saw, very specifically, that they were beaten down by Yumi, Momo, Mihoko, and Kana in order just before those two days. So, on one side, Yuuki improved herself to a competent level (without developing new abilities!) over the course of weeks of specialized training. On the other side, we may have Shizu actually gain a new ability that was never mentioned before and specifically hinted against - all in the course of two days and just because she played with Kei's asylum a few times. If you ask me, Yuuki's development was very realistic. Shizu's improvement - if it does ever happen - smells in every way like a eleventh hour superpower to me. Quote:
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Still, my biggest annoyance with this chapter is not the potential to deus ex Shizu. I'm mostly ticked that the mangaka decided that Ryuuka's playing style would basically be co-dependent on Toki as well. I mean, yes, I get that they love each other outside of the game and I'm totally fine with it, but at least give her a distinct playing style of her own rather than have all of her wins be attributed to Toki as well. Quote:
The manga subverts its own crazy abilities often enough as well. Hiroe is one of the top players in the inter-high, after all, and the only ability that she seems to have is the standard luck that everyone else in the series ends up with (plus maybe a defense that's probably a bit too good to be true). Quote:
In fact, Senriyama players aside, there was no evidence of this 'third year hand completion rate' whatsoever in the Saki universe. Even the Achiga universe did not have evidence of this until the Semifinals (it definitely didn't help Koshigaya or Kentani in the slightest). Last edited by Felyndiira; 2013-01-08 at 07:36. |
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2013-01-08, 07:59 | Link #2646 | |||
Critical fanboy
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere with anime and anime discussion is fine
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EDIT: I did expect it, but hope there won't be too many complant about how Shiraitodai is losing credibility as the strongest HS mahjong team. It is understandable complaint after the hype, and I felt Ritz is overdoing it with this chapter's score. Last edited by teja208; 2013-01-08 at 08:23. |
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2013-01-08, 08:34 | Link #2647 | ||||
エーレンフェストの聖女
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I mean, it's entirely possible that Yuuki long training with Koromo was because that she needs to take that much time because she's developing a new strategy to amplify her ability. We can take this speculation based on the fact that we knows her ability is and how (logically) that training would take to master. This is not the case with Shizu since we still don't know what strategy will she use in next chapter... it could be like the case with Yuu with her strategy to dodge Sumire's arrow; you don't need to spend a really long time to use that strategy. Shizu short training and power up might have something to do with a strategy (albeit it won't be something like a tell that Sumire has) that doesn't take too long to master. ..of course, if her ability turns out to be something godlike that would be pretty funny. Come to think of it, since she fought many great players... I dunno, maybe she'll be using the experiences from all the girls she fought and can come up with proper strategy to beat them. She's like a hero in games if that's true though levelling up until she get high level to defeat the bosses while struggling to do so and not giving up. Quote:
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Then again, it kinda reminds me of what happened during the final against Koromo. That time where Yumi was actually in tenpai Kokushi makes me think that 3rd years student are pretty amazing to pull of something like that without actual occult ability. My guess is that the 3rd year ability on getting faster tenpai wasn't that prominent because they're constantly overshadowed by Kiyosumi's player ability or when a 3rd year has some sort of ability. Take Mihoko for example, we wouldn't know whether her hand rate is faster or not because she's already a good player to begin with and we'll be focusing too much with her eye ability. It's only on Achiga where we got a view point from a normal not 3rd year student against 3rd year student... of course, I don't think that will happen in main manga since all the 1st year are monsters and Mako is a pretty strong player too
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2013-01-08, 09:24 | Link #2648 | |
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Read the latest Achiga chapter (bits and pieces), yep, this semis #1 final round is gonna be epic. No more Awai horsing around! EDIT: Can the anime squeeze everything into 1 episode? Last edited by Peanutbutter; 2013-01-08 at 09:54. |
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2013-01-08, 09:41 | Link #2649 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Earth
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Doesn't Saki already have that mode? Against Momo she kinda used digital mode to break her invisibility didn't she? I don't think this is her channeling Nodoka though, the anime implied she got it from her stint on playing online during the training camp. And oh yeah, Chapter 107 preliminary translation out. Thanks to /u/. Here is the link http://www.mediafire.com/?7ol9ztezvylbc98
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2013-01-08, 09:45 | Link #2650 | ||
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With regards to why this effect might not show up for every third year, or for every school, I think a lot of it must have to do with past experience. Only regular/veteran schools like Senriyama or Himematsu would usually have the luxury of having repeat players at the nationals. Not having the nervous feelings of being their first time at the nationals, but at the same time having the motivation of knowing it is their last chance at it, is probably one of the key components of this factor. For example, we saw the crippling effect that Hisa's nervousness had in her quarterfinal game. There is also the issue that this sort of psychological effect probably only exists for non-occult players of the game. For schools like Eisui or Miyamori, which have a strong occult awareness, not only will they have more natural confidence in their own strength from the very beginning but they will also be more strongly aware of the strength of others. To a degree this might be a negative because that means they will be more willing to accept defeat by "monsters" which they know are stronger than them, and less passionate in going all out to overcome all challenges. On some level we have seen that psychological factors have always had an effect on player performance in Saki. Tons of characters have said things like "I felt my hand began coming together after I regained my determination". FunaQ's "third year bonus" is just an extension of one common case of these psychological factors. Especially for players who are far apart from the occult world, I think such things might be common. |
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2013-01-08, 11:27 | Link #2651 |
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I guess Ryuuka and Himeko are just competing to see who's powerup is gayer. I suppose why Ryuuka's seems so strange is that there was no warning at all about it, it was just suddenly there, instead of Himeko where it was refereed to from the start.
Ryuuka has been said to have gotten here from her own merit, this is really a way from the author to show moar Toki rather then imply this as one of Ryuuka's skills. Toki did turn out to be far more popular than anyone originally anticipated after all. It's just that Ryuuka's thighs have absorbed Toki essence since she has Toki's head glued to it 20 hours out of the day. The third year powerup thing might be a little odd, but maybe Achiga was where it was first actually pointed out. It's really not even the craziest thing we're expected to swallow in the series at that. The psychological aspect is probably the closest logical explanation we'll get out of this. It probably is a combination of their experience, skill, intensified focus guiding them to tenpai and the abnormal sakiverse luck helping them along, but it's necessary to have the requisite skill level to use the status buff properly or it can become useless. As for Shizu it can be a little harder to accept a sudden jump in her power as we haven't had the luxury of looking over her shoulder while she level grinds up to it like we have been for Yukki. All I can really say is lets give the author a chance to state her case on the subject before we start judging. Also, I'm ready for the Awai rapeage to begin. Cmon you cutesy bundle of demonicness. Show us why we should tremble in terror before you. If you're going to be the final boss of the main series you need to show us why.... |
2013-01-08, 14:18 | Link #2652 | |
Critical fanboy
Join Date: Oct 2011
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As for Awai, she has been taking quite a lot of hits this chapter effectively droping Shiraitodai to last place. While I'm not fond of this development as it undermines Shiraitodai reputation as the strongest HS, I find Awai is quite similar to Saki in a way, Awai seems like the type that takes her time with her opponents before start getting serious. Then again, she's a little too relax even for a national-class monster. I get it that she loves raising bars on herself and making the match more challenging for her, but things is she isn't playing in the individual match. She plays captain position to boot so she is responsible for her team victory, and how her carelessness can result the whole team losing. |
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2013-01-08, 14:45 | Link #2653 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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I don't think Shizu needs a power-up and I don't think we'll see such a thing. To begin with, the gap between Achiga, Shindouji and Senriyama isn't even big. We should also consider that Awai hasn't even been paying attention to Shizu so far, and right now she's about to start doing her thing. So, my guess is she will be aiming for both Ryuuka and Himeko. So, keeping a low profile would be all Shizu needs to do to end up on second place or maybe even first, considering Awai has let Ryuuka and Himeko to send her to last place.
If that isn't enough, my guess is it will all come down to Akado giving hints to Shizu about her opponents, how the match might follow and what she will have to do. I do find this to be completely silly, considering mahjong is one of the hardest games to predict, even considering the way the players go into it. But well, Achiga has pretty much been running con plot conveniences; so, this is nothing new. I've got to admit, though, I'm highly disappointed on Shiraitodai. Other than Teru and maybe Awai, neither of them proved themselves to be the great players they were once hyped to be. I got a similar feeling from Eisui who didn't live up to the hype, but Shiraitodai had been hyped from even before and much more. They were supposed to be like the BIG opponent. Even Ryuumonbuchi gave me a much more ominous feeling when they were the opponents. And with how Kiyosumi is playing now, plus the fucked up stuff Saki keeps on pulling... I've got to say I'm more worried about Achiga because of their plot conveniences, than on Shiraitodai being good.
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2013-01-08, 18:25 | Link #2654 |
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Somethings I want to note down on Ryuuka, I'm going to be seriously disappointed if she does have an ability, because well Senriyama is supposed to be a school with just straight up good players (excluding Izumi of course). Mainly because, wasn't Sera supposed to be the strongest player in Senriyama?
Plus I'm going to call complete bullshit if Ryuuka turns out to be 'the true dragon lord' people keep calling her. Because it would imply that she easily gets dragon tiles, meaning she get yakuman hands when everyone else has to work for the, even though's with abilities, as shown with Teru, having to snowball into a yakuman, Saki having to build her kan streak to pull off a 4 melded kans, Hatsume has to get into the north seat and she doesn't always get the wind tiles that she needs, Komaki has to actually get the right goddess spirit to pull of yakumans, and finally Takami has to build up Yakuman for the final round. So I would find it very stupid if she could just bring dragon tiles into her hand, when everyone else has to work so hard to pull off yakuman hands. Sorry I don't mean to sound mean to Ryuuka, but I find it annoying everyone calling her true dragon lord, when she supposed an example of a good non ability player. Also with regards to Shiriaitoai, not being as powerful as their were foreshadowed to be, first off their in the semi-finals, meaning the best 8 in Japan, so their going to start having trouble, besides we know that Sumire can just ditch her ability and still play decently, while Takami still has the chance of spamming yakuman hands if she becomes dealer (And Seiko just sucks), and I have to point this out, there is nothing wrong in showing even the strongest team has weaknesses. On the whole debate on 3rd years tenpai speed and dangerous first years, I'd say that Koromo, Jimdai and Kei were taken note of because o f how they won, Koromo winning mainly through haitai rouyai, it seems that Jindai pulled of multiple nine gates in the last tournament, and Kei possibly comes from the fact she's second only to Teru. And I would like to point something to those who compare Achiga and their training with the Nagno teams. You all seem to forget that Achiga trained with Kazekoshi and Tsugura after the training camp Hisa held, meaning that they would all improve and be harder for Achiga to beat. Also after training with Kei, Ako did have a line where she said they had trouble at first, but once they got going things improved for them. Also with regards to when Achiga faced Ryuumbuchi, we don't know how Shizu and Koromo's match went, from the looks of it though Koromo did not win through busting her, meaning Shizu broke out of Koromo's tenpai hell and managed to win a few hands against her. It seems to me in this image that Teru and Sumire might be worried about Awai awakening, could it be a case of Awai can't control her ability probably or that they think that she is revealing her true strength way to soon? Also if Ryuuka gets to have Toki adising her with calls, Himeko gets double wins off of Mairu's wins, I say since Shizu is wearing Ako's uniform, she will suddenly gain Ako's potency to quickly build hands, or gain her calling sense, meaning that during her dealership she'll be able to build up a healthy score and sink someone below zero. Spoiler for Spoiler:
Last edited by Bladezer; 2013-01-11 at 07:43. |
2013-01-08, 18:28 | Link #2655 | |
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2013-01-08, 18:45 | Link #2656 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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About SHIRATODAI skill, I think we hoped too much on the word strongest.
We thought that if common team power level is around 3, Shiratodai power must be 10 , but in Ritz mind, the gap may be closer, like good team is around 8 or 9 and Shiratodai is 10.
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2013-01-08, 19:09 | Link #2657 |
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I fully understand that Shiratodai is not being shown as the all destroying monsters in this game to preserve drama for the main series finals and to give the other three teams in the current match a chance. I mean cmon now, after the beatdown Teru administered the next three players HAD to get their asses handed to them in a sling to keep the other three teams in the game rather then relating it to a less interesting "who's going to get a hopelessly behind 2nd place" battle.
I mean if the other teams were shown to have no chance at all versus Shiratodai then it wouldn't matter who'd make it to the finals from Side A as they'd be treated as a joke and not taken seriously. As disappointing as it is to see Shiratodai get beaten up like this, you have to admit the alternative would make the series a great deal more boring. Shiratodai will have the finals in the main series to show true power. Or to job again. We'll see. |
2013-01-08, 21:22 | Link #2659 | |
The slacking one
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Also, wow, I never expected this chapter to create such a large discussion. It's good to see others put so much thought into the series, but as for me, I'll stay in a corner and enjoy the new level of gay and crazy this chapter has achieved. Please do something cool next time, Shizu. I want to keep liking you, I really do. |
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2013-01-08, 22:21 | Link #2660 | |
The Master of Turkeys
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Between Skyrim and Thedas
Age: 34
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Why this series doesn't have an actual fantasy retelling is beyond me, although the mahjong avatars suffice. Seeing these new chapters only reinforces that notion.
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mahjong, nopan, seinen, sport, yuri |
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