AnimeSuki Forums

frubam · 2012-01-29, 01:34

This episode.... f*kn amazing!!! Shinobu completely surprised me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

I had no idea Shinobu had such lovely outspoken and playful personality. Hell, I had no idea she had a personality, period. I'm a fan of her old-style speech pattern as well. Maaya Sakamoto did an outstanding job!

^This sums up my feelings perfectly =03. That "Ka ka" laugh was so DAMN cute X03!

Another thing this ep showed me was that Araragi has so many unique, interesting relationships to other girls; Tsubasa and now Shinobu in particular. It feels like it doesn't even matter that Hitagi is his girlfriend; because he shares different types of relationships with other girls that are just as strong. Tsubasa's critique of how Araragi "worries" about her different from everyone else, including Hitagi somewhat justifies that there is something that Tsubasa has on Araragi that Hitagi can't quite possess(even though it was Tsubasa herself that said this, I agree with that sentiment). Same with Shinobu. Araragi's declaration to exist with her until the end of both of their days with them mildly embracing each other was a very powerful display of emotions to me. I mean, how can one see this, how playful Shinobu was with Araragi, almost to the point of intimacy(not as in 'sex' obviously) and think his loyalty completely lies with Hitagi? I find this more appealing than the story behind what happened to Karen.

Silvance · 2012-01-29, 01:38

Spoiler for ep 4:

apr · 2012-01-29, 01:56

The donut in question is this thing, which is based on the Brazilian bread "Pão de Queijo". It's got nothing to do with pondering (the verb).

sa547 · 2012-01-29, 01:56

Can't say much, as others before me have pointed out the bright spots on this episode. Made even more awesome with Sakamoto.. er, Shinobu now on board.

This is going to be very fun.

Clarste · 2012-01-29, 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by apr

The donut in question is this thing, which is based on the Portuguese bread "Pão de Queijo". It's got nothing to do with pondering (the verb).

Yes, that would be the quality that makes it a pun.

vio5555 · 2012-01-29, 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvance

Spoiler for ep 4:

It's not really the "silent treatment" in a way.

Recall that Shinobu always viewed the girls around him differently from how she looked at him and Oshino. This was pointed out during the Nadeko arc.

She's basically a tsundere in that way, she was staring at Nadeko with an annoyed look and always looked at him and Oshino more gently.

sa547 · 2012-01-29, 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

Yes, that would be the quality that makes it a pun.

Ate a Krispy Kreme while watching.

teja208 · 2012-01-29, 04:19

Dammit, it seems that I completely underestimate Tsubasa and Shinobu's characters. Another thing that surprises me is the amount of manservice in this episode. Hope I wasn't the only one who looked at Koyomi just to see if there is any reaction. Nope, nothing at all.

What I didn't get is Koyomi's lack of comment to change in Tsubasa's appearence. In the novel, did she gave any reason as to why she change them?

tsunade666 · 2012-01-29, 04:21

The first part was already lovely with a harsh Koyomi on her little sister and Hanekawa taking side with the sister that render Koyomi unable to do anything but it really cracks me up when Shinobu shows up!!! that loli vampire steals the show completely and with a laugh of "ka ka" well the last bit part was rather dark with the future of Koyomi but I won't mind staying with a loli vampire for 500 more years

Johnny · 2012-01-29, 04:23

Liked Hanekawa's new hairstyle, and from some of them poses on Koyomi's bed she looked like Hitagi to me...

That was an interesting topic Shinobu brought up about Koyomi's lifespan. She seems pretty confident that he'll outlive all the others. Which probably is the case, since it all started with Koyomi and her. Thus it will end with them two as well...

Malkuth · 2012-01-29, 04:43

Tsubasa bossing Hitagi

helping the sisters

stretching on the bed

haircut

moto-iinchou

Hazuki@Tsukuyomi -> Evangiline@Negima -> Mina@VampireBund -> Shinobu@Monogatari... Shinbou really has a thing for loli vampires

In between, I guess most of us were staring at loli-Shinobu and completely missed the Koyomi-man-service

Anyway, I much rather prefer her +20 years version... with more features to stare at

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Sho-

Dat fanservice.
Anyway , i wish they give us more details on their past & relationships.
Shaft is doing a great job for the decor.

Kizumonogatari

Quote:

Originally Posted by LotionExplosion

Honestly, How come the Hanekawa scenes are so boring...

WHAT

When her scene ended I was about to rewatch it just to feast my eyes, but my second favourite character popped out

Anyway, the Araragi manor architecture is really something else out of this world... I love what they are doing with the backgrounds.

Also there is a ridiculous amount of animation for some scenes, it was already a challenge to follow the story with the dense dialogue, signs and trying to pay attention both to subs and voice... then there's all the ecchi-service, and now I realize that even the backgrounds capture my gaze... really a sensual overload

Tyabann · 2012-01-29, 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by teja208

What I didn't get is Koyomi's lack of comment to change in Tsubasa's appearence. In the novel, did she gave any reason as to why she change them?

He was the one who cut her hair, actually.

Shikijin · 2012-01-29, 05:40

What was left out of the light novels this time...

Spoiler for chapters 11-12:

-Araragi asked Senjougahara where she left his bycicle, and she told him she parked it right next to a dump site. Araragi was a bit upset at the way the Valhalla Combi treats his bikes. He still was gentleman enough to escort her home though.
-"I'm right" is really the first thing Karen said. The conversation starts here.
-When Tsukihi and Karen confront each other, Tsukihi gives in. And Araragi, like Senjougahara, was forced to apologize by Hanekawa. With this the power relationship is clear.
-Araragi states Hanekawa is the real thing, there is no fake in her. For him she is like a second mother.
-There was a rumor that Hanekawa's change in appearance forced the school principal to take resposibility and write a letter of resignation. For her it was just an "image change".
-When Araragi hears their sisters calling Hanekawa "Tsubasa-san" he is surprised because he didn't think they were that close to call her by her first name.
-It's Araragi the one who wants to pretend to be nice in front of Hanekawa. Shaft left out the subject, so the translators had no way to know.
-Since Hanekawa was collaborating, it became Feather & Fire Sisters. It's kind of like giving wings to a tiger (a Japanese metaphor meaning that someone powerful has become even more powerful).
-When Araragi is made to promise he won't tell anything to their parents, he actually thinks for him that promise is as easy to break as paper, he just gave in because there was Hanekawa.
-When Karen commented that her brother was taking a girl to his room, she was very delighted. Araragi thought "one day I'll kill you".
-When Araragi called Karen "huge sister" and Karen just replied with "little one", he thought her reaction was weak. Usually she would have sprung at him.
-Araragi avoided to call Karen and Tsukihi by their names because he got the habit as a kid to call them using the -chan suffix. I wondered how a translator could do this part without using honorifics. There was a small omission on CR subs: "a rhetoric trick to treat them as children".
-Araragi commented the remains of the handcuffs had become kind of like bracelets.
-Araragi presented Shinobu's entry in an RPG style: "Vampire A has appeared".
-Shinobu stopped wearing that helmet with googles because it was out of fashion and lame.
-The Fire Bee arised from an infectious disease in the Muromachi era. People didn't know what was the cause so they explained with the supernatural, and they ended up creating a kaii. Similarly it seems even vampires started as some kind of blood disease.
-Araragi thinks it's a great misunderstanding towards human culture to view Senjougahara as an average tsundere.
-Hanekawa first took Karen to a hospital. She was really helpful, but Araragi couldn't help but think she was the one that led Karen to Kaiki, so she's kind of like a "matchpump" (one who stirs up trouble to get credit from the solution).
-Araragi's parents think Karen has just a summer cold.
-Araragi realizes that for Shinobu the idea of calling people for help in case Araragi was doing something suspicious is part of a special education from Oshino.

raruku · 2012-01-29, 06:01

Nah, pon-de-ring joke is just a donut reference.

NISIO himself don't even know what pondering mean.

Kanon · 2012-01-29, 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sackett

Tsubasa was there before her. It's just that Tsubasa was very slow in her romantic development, and never made an open play for Koyomi. In some ways Hitagi swept in and stole Koyomi from Tsubasa.

I think it's a mixture of guilt and a real fear that if Tsubasa decided to make a serious play for Koyomi instead of respecting his choice of Hitagi, that Hitagi isn't entirely certain Koyomi would choose her.

Sure she's pretty sure he would... but Koyomi's relationship with Tsubasa predates her. Koyomi saved Tsubasa first. What if he's only playing along with being Hitagi's boyfriend because he think it's what Hitagi needs to be saved?

I think that just like everybody else in the series, she thinks Tsubasa is a better match for Araragi as well. She most certainly sees her as her biggest rival, one she admires and respects and at the same time fears -I think she has a bit of an inferiority complex towards her- so it's not surprising she immediately gave in to that threat. Of course she is making a big mistake, we all know the one she should look out for is the final boss, Nadeko!

Quote:

Originally Posted by omimon

She's not going to wear it anymore because it's too lame.

Haha. Who gave her that helmet anyway? Meme, I assume?

I find it incredibly amusing that she pretended to be "empty" all this time and yet was boiling with anger listening to Meme's lectures/ramblings. Sulking can be hard

______________

You know, as much as I loved this episode and the previous ones, I'm disappointed by Karen's lack of screentime in her own goddamn arc. I swear every single other heroine got more than her. That's just not right.

apr · 2012-01-29, 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

You know, as much as I loved this episode and the previous ones, I'm disappointed by Karen's lack of screentime in her own goddamn arc. I swear every single other heroine got more than her. That's just not right.

It's become a trademark of the series that the "heroine" of the arc barely gets any dialogue. Usually they're highlighted in the following arc instead.

Shikijin · 2012-01-29, 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by apr

It's become a trademark of the series that the "heroine" of the arc barely gets any dialogue. Usually they're highlighted in the following arc instead.

It's not always true that they barely get any dialogue, but on this line I have to remind that this book was written after Kizumonogatari, which was about Kissshot/Shinobu, so it was natural that Shinobu would have appeared.

Sol Falling · 2012-01-29, 06:59

I think it makes sense, on some level. The heroine of an arc is usually somehow afflicted by the supernatural. The early parts of an arc build up and give hints to us, both about the girl and the kaii which is afflicting them. Then in the climax of the plot arc the heroine gets their most significant screentime, as we see the resolution of their problem. Finally, we see a bit more of normal interaction with them in the following storyline, acting as a sort of epilogue, continuing on to be interweaved throughout the rest of the story. Not that this has to be any sort of strict guideline or anything, but I'd say most of the arcs we've seen so far could fit into this structure.

Kanon · 2012-01-29, 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by apr

It's become a trademark of the series that the "heroine" of the arc barely gets any dialogue. Usually they're highlighted in the following arc instead.

True, however I feel this arc took this to the extreme. Maybe my memory is just bad, but I recall the other heroines had significantly more screentime in their arc. Karen only had what? 5 minutes of screentime in 4 episodes. That's ridiculous.

apr · 2012-01-29, 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

True, however I feel this arc took this to the extreme. Maybe my memory is just bad, but I recall the other heroines had significantly more screentime in their arc. Karen only had what? 5 minutes of screentime in 4 episodes. That's ridiculous.

Well, Tsukihi won't get any at all. :|

View Poll Results: Nisemonogatari - Episode 04 Rating
Perfect 10	71	56.35%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	32	25.40%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	20	15.87%
7 out of 10 : Good	1	0.79%
6 out of 10 : Average	0	0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	1	0.79%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	1	0.79%
1 out of 10 : Painful	0	0%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

2012-01-29, 01:38	Link #62
Silvance Storm Vanguard Graphic Designer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Type-00	Spoiler for ep 4: Well, that was a surprise. I didn't expect Shinobu to show up and in the bathroom of all places. I was taken by surprise when she suddenly started talking too. So she's been giving Koyomi a silent treatment the entire time? Still, the most startling part for me was the scene where Tsukihi opened the door, and only to close it after witnessing her brother bathing with a child. I did not expect her to come back again, and fully equipped with a knife, plus asking her brother where the girl went. I guess Tsukihi is a closet brocon? It truly was an amusing episode despite of the lack of Hitagi. Great stuff indeed.

2012-01-29, 01:56	Link #63
apr Pedestrian Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sweden	The donut in question is this thing, which is based on the Brazilian bread "Pão de Queijo". It's got nothing to do with pondering (the verb). __________________ ...in my humble opinion.

2012-01-29, 01:56	Link #64
sa547 Senior Member Author Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Philippines Age: 47	Can't say much, as others before me have pointed out the bright spots on this episode. Made even more awesome with Sakamoto.. er, Shinobu now on board. This is going to be very fun. __________________

2012-01-29, 04:21	Link #69
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	The first part was already lovely with a harsh Koyomi on her little sister and Hanekawa taking side with the sister that render Koyomi unable to do anything but it really cracks me up when Shinobu shows up!!! that loli vampire steals the show completely and with a laugh of "ka ka" well the last bit part was rather dark with the future of Koyomi but I won't mind staying with a loli vampire for 500 more years __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2012-01-29, 04:19	Link #68
teja208 Critical fanboy Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Anywhere with anime and anime discussion is fine	Dammit, it seems that I completely underestimate Tsubasa and Shinobu's characters. Another thing that surprises me is the amount of manservice in this episode. Hope I wasn't the only one who looked at Koyomi just to see if there is any reaction. Nope, nothing at all. What I didn't get is Koyomi's lack of comment to change in Tsubasa's appearence. In the novel, did she gave any reason as to why she change them?

2012-01-29, 04:23	Link #70
Johnny Working the bags... Join Date: Mar 2009	Liked Hanekawa's new hairstyle, and from some of them poses on Koyomi's bed she looked like Hitagi to me... That was an interesting topic Shinobu brought up about Koyomi's lifespan. She seems pretty confident that he'll outlive all the others. Which probably is the case, since it all started with Koyomi and her. Thus it will end with them two as well...

2012-01-29, 05:40	Link #73
Shikijin Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010	What was left out of the light novels this time... Spoiler for chapters 11-12: -Araragi asked Senjougahara where she left his bycicle, and she told him she parked it right next to a dump site. Araragi was a bit upset at the way the Valhalla Combi treats his bikes. He still was gentleman enough to escort her home though. -"I'm right" is really the first thing Karen said. The conversation starts here. -When Tsukihi and Karen confront each other, Tsukihi gives in. And Araragi, like Senjougahara, was forced to apologize by Hanekawa. With this the power relationship is clear. -Araragi states Hanekawa is the real thing, there is no fake in her. For him she is like a second mother. -There was a rumor that Hanekawa's change in appearance forced the school principal to take resposibility and write a letter of resignation. For her it was just an "image change". -When Araragi hears their sisters calling Hanekawa "Tsubasa-san" he is surprised because he didn't think they were that close to call her by her first name. -It's Araragi the one who wants to pretend to be nice in front of Hanekawa. Shaft left out the subject, so the translators had no way to know. -Since Hanekawa was collaborating, it became Feather & Fire Sisters. It's kind of like giving wings to a tiger (a Japanese metaphor meaning that someone powerful has become even more powerful). -When Araragi is made to promise he won't tell anything to their parents, he actually thinks for him that promise is as easy to break as paper, he just gave in because there was Hanekawa. -When Karen commented that her brother was taking a girl to his room, she was very delighted. Araragi thought "one day I'll kill you". -When Araragi called Karen "huge sister" and Karen just replied with "little one", he thought her reaction was weak. Usually she would have sprung at him. -Araragi avoided to call Karen and Tsukihi by their names because he got the habit as a kid to call them using the -chan suffix. I wondered how a translator could do this part without using honorifics. There was a small omission on CR subs: "a rhetoric trick to treat them as children". -Araragi commented the remains of the handcuffs had become kind of like bracelets. -Araragi presented Shinobu's entry in an RPG style: "Vampire A has appeared". -Shinobu stopped wearing that helmet with googles because it was out of fashion and lame. -The Fire Bee arised from an infectious disease in the Muromachi era. People didn't know what was the cause so they explained with the supernatural, and they ended up creating a kaii. Similarly it seems even vampires started as some kind of blood disease. -Araragi thinks it's a great misunderstanding towards human culture to view Senjougahara as an average tsundere. -Hanekawa first took Karen to a hospital. She was really helpful, but Araragi couldn't help but think she was the one that led Karen to Kaiki, so she's kind of like a "matchpump" (one who stirs up trouble to get credit from the solution). -Araragi's parents think Karen has just a summer cold. -Araragi realizes that for Shinobu the idea of calling people for help in case Araragi was doing something suspicious is part of a special education from Oshino. Last edited by Shikijin; 2012-01-29 at 06:41.

2012-01-29, 06:01	Link #74
raruku Member Join Date: Mar 2009	Nah, pon-de-ring joke is just a donut reference. NISIO himself don't even know what pondering mean.

2012-01-29, 06:59	Link #78
Sol Falling Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 35	I think it makes sense, on some level. The heroine of an arc is usually somehow afflicted by the supernatural. The early parts of an arc build up and give hints to us, both about the girl and the kaii which is afflicting them. Then in the climax of the plot arc the heroine gets their most significant screentime, as we see the resolution of their problem. Finally, we see a bit more of normal interaction with them in the following storyline, acting as a sort of epilogue, continuing on to be interweaved throughout the rest of the story. Not that this has to be any sort of strict guideline or anything, but I'd say most of the arcs we've seen so far could fit into this structure.