2011-07-05, 00:14 | Link #1101 | |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Quote:
But I suppose there are ways to develop a character without changing his personality; we can opt to reveal more about his past, which I call the Hayate method- where we learn that he had a childhood lover... There's a big gap being going to Academy City, and meeting Mikoto. Then there's the Nanoha method- the closest thing that felt like a character development is when she got Vivio. Now Touma doesn't have to do the same, but by throwing in a disturbance into his daily life (more disturbing than usual), he might have to change tactics. And yes, anything rather than the cliche gone to the dark side route.
__________________
Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2011-07-05 at 00:29. |
|
2011-07-05, 03:18 | Link #1102 | |
オンドリャァァァ!!!
Join Date: May 2009
|
Quote:
|
|
2011-07-05, 03:20 | Link #1103 | |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Nay, I'm pretty sure it's the same with Hamazura- For a girl, he's willing to commit atrocity if he has to.
__________________
|
|
2011-07-05, 08:22 | Link #1104 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 34
|
Quote:
Quote:
As I said before, if Index can gets away from Touma, that practically will destroy Touma's reasons to return to his normal world and maybe can start a change for him be it for good or bad (just like Izzard did). |
||
2011-07-05, 08:49 | Link #1105 | |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2011-07-05, 09:27 | Link #1106 | |
Disabled By Request
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The 305
Age: 30
|
Quote:
|
|
2011-07-05, 09:42 | Link #1107 | |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Quote:
I don't know... Everything that you guys said about going down the dark side feels like a deterioration of his character rather than an improvement. If changing him makes him a worse character than when he first started out, why would you want to do that? See, the main reason why we want to see a character change is because there's something about him or her that we don't like, and we want them to overcome it, that's the kind of positive change that we want to see. But Touma doesn't come with the natural weakness that Male protagonists are born with. He's isn't indecisive and whiny about what must be done, he isn't bogged down by some internal angst or guilt, and he certainly isn't getting carried away with his power. So you have to ask yourself; what more can you add to a character like that? So the way I see it there are two routes; one is to keep his character the same, but you can expand on his past. But if you're adamant about forcing a change in his personality for the better, I say Touma should stop trying to protect others so much and let them help him more.
__________________
|
|
2011-07-05, 10:02 | Link #1108 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
|
In my opinion, a fully developed character like that would be rather difficult to carry on a storyline with. He isn't indecisive, he doesn't whine about what must be done when he gets down to it and he doesn't get drunk on his power. These are the points you highlighted. In this case, it gives him very little bubbles of space of fill in the cracks, also as you've pointed out.
However, that is also a detriment to his character as a whole. Why? When we read a character, we don't expect them to be a perfect 'hero' character, he's supposed to be a 'everyday man' like you and me, just simply drawn into situations beyond his control. The fact that he has the guts to face them is a point in his favour... and a point against him. Again, why? Simply - His memory loss. I found it remarkably that he did not show any signs of fear, hostility, panic or even hysteria at waking up with a blank slate. No, instead, he gets explained the situation by a bunch of people he doesn't remember, throwing strange terms at him that he should not possibly understand even though entire brain cells got damaged and entire years of knowledge and reasoning were wiped clean. From a psychology standpoint, he should have suffered a nervous breakdown. But he didn't. Some people can live with that... some people can't. I for one, actually facepalmed at the way the author handled it. In giving him that reaction and that so-called fortitude, unrealistic though it may be, it basically will stunt his growth as a character. And even then, it's highly dumb that he could remember how to even do his homework or even what the word Esper means. For some people, it was a touching scene and a badass one... but to me, it was very poorly executed. It would have been a perfect chance to actually explore the naked insecurities of Kamijou Touma - How would he have reacted to having people know him but all he can come up with is a blank? His fears would have been laid bare, he would have needed support and encouragement from people. Yes, forging straight ahead is good and all, but what about the past? Isn't it the past that drives you forward and actually defines your present character? Or maybe I'm too much into debating lately. The reason why people love/hate the 'he was in the dark side' cliche is because it gives him a plausible character growth whereby we discover that he too has once sunk into the darkness and it changed him from a wimp to a helpful, overzealous hero who's still wimpy at heart but does the right thing. We don't want perfect heroes, after all. We want heroes that we can empathize and connect with. Or at least, I want it. <.< Sorry for wall of text. If it's a rant, hope I didn't offend anyone. ^^ |
2011-07-05, 10:13 | Link #1109 |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Just one thing to correct; different memories are stored in different parts of the Brain. Just because he can't remember anything that happened before waking up in that hospital bed doesn't mean he suddenly can't do math or forgotten what Espers are because the informations are in separate locations.
__________________
|
2011-07-05, 10:21 | Link #1110 | |
I crack you up
Join Date: Dec 2010
Age: 30
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2011-07-05, 10:36 | Link #1111 |
Disabled By Request
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The 305
Age: 30
|
having a good idolized character turn bad is a good thing. It affects all the other characters that follow Touma and if Touma is ruthless it also has a touch of bad assery. It's nice to see him punch bitches but now we got to see him kill some.
Haven't you felt Toumas best moments are when he loses his arm and scares the big baddies? |
2011-07-05, 12:51 | Link #1113 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 34
|
Quote:
Ah, guilt, you should read what Touma feels after July 30th. @Mr. Kyon: I agree that Touma going crazy and scaring the hell out of his enemies is very cool but that doesn't make him evil just a bit mad/crazy. Fiamma wanted to save the world and Touma just a single girl. |
|
2011-07-05, 16:16 | Link #1114 | |||
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Quote:
...I'm pretty sure both of them already went very far. Quote:
Now lets say he kills someone, how does that change his character for the better? I certainly don't want to see Touma turning into just a catalyst for the other characters' development. Quote:
Lets say you make him angsty for a longer period of time, how is that not a deterioration? Lets say Touma does have this fall, and when he gets back up- what part of his character would change for the better? Perhaps he does feel guilty, but he doesn't let it bog him down.
__________________
|
|||
2011-07-05, 17:12 | Link #1120 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Age: 34
|
Quote:
Which is deeper, someone choosing to kill in order to protect, or one who refuses to kill, instead forging a path that will save the one they want to protect without taking the lives of others? In some ways, the latter is deeper than the former. Sure, Accel is an all round deeper character than Touma, and I can understand your frustration with his Static status, but please don't call Touma shallow because he is at peace with his Demons. There are other indications of depth than inner conflict. I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but from some of the comments I get the feeling you want Touma to be darker, which is fine, but darker does not mean deeper, which is what you are actually arguing for. Take Yuno - dark character, and for 55 chapters as deep as a puddle.
__________________
|
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|