Toradora! - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Vexx]

Lots of information flew through this episode at a fast clip and a lot of rapid shifts in the character relationships and what each one understands about the "big picture". Kitamura had a long "oh holy sh**" moment during Ryuuji's revelation. Ami's still dancing around but Minori clearly picked up on her meaning (driving some of the tensions of the fight). Everyone in the class except the two idiots and Kitamura seem to know Kihara's pain.

Yeah, probably the weakest part of the anime adaptation is the repetition of "being in the right place to hear the right things" scenario to propel knowledge. In the novels... the "rightplacerighttime" technique is there but there are so many other ways that information is exchanged it doesn't stand out like that.

I kept thinking of the Marx Brother's classic "stuffed into a tiny room" routine from "A Night At the Opera".

[arkxkra]

omg, veryy good episode.
to fight for a guy can be very danger >.<". and finally, accidently "confess" to right person, I think ryuji will be more thing to think now o.O".
looking forward to next episode.

[Kafriel]

Any episode with bitch-slapping is a natural 10
Very nice episode, the plot's finally taking leaps forward, all that's left now is for Ami to push Minori a bit further and for Ryuuji to talk to Ami...(because Kitamura really doesn't get a thing!) Always looking forward to the next episode.

[Justin Kim]

Lol Kafriel, I gotta admit though the slapping is getting pretty common. Anyone hear a "high school rumble," going on?

[DragoZERO]

I'm anxiously waiting for Ami's confession or whichever way her true feelings will be revealed. I doubt I'll get my Ami x Ryuuji ending though. Rats, lol.

[Eisdrache]

I so want more of Aihara <3 I wonder what kind of factor she will play in the upcoming events.

[Nosauz]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Lots of information flew through this episode at a fast clip and a lot of rapid shifts in the character relationships and what each one understands about the "big picture". Kitamura had a long "oh holy sh**" moment during Ryuuji's revelation. Ami's still dancing around but Minori clearly picked up on her meaning (driving some of the tensions of the fight). Everyone in the class except the two idiots and Kitamura seem to know Kihara's pain.

Yeah, probably the weakest part of the anime adaptation is the repetition of "being in the right place to hear the right things" scenario to propel knowledge. In the novels... the "rightplacerighttime" technique is there but there are so many other ways that information is exchanged it doesn't stand out like that.

I kept thinking of the Marx Brother's classic "stuffed into a tiny room" routine from "A Night At the Opera".

Well, doesn't this notion become evident in every piece of contrived fiction? The idea that certain events could never happen if the character wasn't strategically placed beforehand. I know some attempts of this mechanism can be more subtle then others but at the end of the day I feel like if we look deeply into the work we can see how character development is setup to allow these highly imporbable situations to occur. I mean this doesn't change the fact that these situations are highly entertaining and highly effective methods of story telling. I think its when the viewer realizes the story is on rails, is when constantly using certain repetitive techniques becomes overly obnoxious, and somewhat condescending to the viewer. Though the end scene kind of felt wierd because Takasu is the one who always saves Taiga so why would Taiga think takasu was kitamura. Other than that the confession was really well done, wish there was a scene before that made kitamura identifiable and some Ryuuji was wearing that said identifier then just a complete daze on the part of taiga, because since their so close together I assume they know each others scent. Thats probably my only nit pick for the entire episode.

[BetoJR]

You missed the part where she brushed her hand on his goggles, then?

[Tango337]

She first thought it was ryuuji, then touched his goggles mistaking them for kitamuras glasses

[Nosauz]

ok, but still the texture of goggles are plastic where as glasses are glass, but yea feverish daze explains that, k thx for the info I said it was a nit pick. Nit pick that really isn't that important just something felt a little off. Didn't really change my opinion of the episode.

[puppygod]

Originally Posted by Nosauz

ok, but still the texture of goggles are plastic where as glasses are glass, (...)

Outside, in the winter, texture is the same - smooth and very cold. Besides, cut her a break. She had, at the moment, like 10 points on Glasgow Coma Scale. Mistaking one guy for the other, with closed eyes, in the blizzard, is not that unusual.

[Mughi]

Originally Posted by Vexx

... I kept thinking of the Marx Brother's classic "stuffed into a tiny room" routine from "A Night At the Opera".

I wish I could give you more rep for this... I was having the same impression. How many more people are they going to jam in there to witness this!?!

[frivolity]

If I'm not wrong, Taiga was wearing gloves, so texture is irrelevant here. It was just the general shape and position of an object present in front of the person's eyes that made her think it was Kitamura.

[Serpentess]

Ok - we know that Taiga was in bad condition so thinking that Ryuji is Kitamura was at least possible. However what hits me is... well... you know the situation:
Taiga is missing, there is terrible blizzard, it is dangerous, 3 people going to look for their friend. Suddenly one of them see where she might be.
I might be overthinking it but we have 3 people - they have to go down the hill in blizzard and that IS something dangerous. Following logic they should all go to make it safer or lat one person go back and inform the rest while 2 others are going down.
Making Ryuji go alone was unreasonable. I just get the idea that it was made only to leave the sapce for Taiga's confession.
Not to mention that climbing up with Taiga on his back Ryuji will get tired, sweat, freeze, die... Oh... they won't let him - now when he knows the truth. Episode 22 will start after they get back.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Serpentess

Making Ryuji go alone was unreasonable. I just get the idea that it was made only to leave the sapce for Taiga's confession.

Ryuuji made the other two go away, as saving Taiga is HIS job.

And besides, he's tougher than to freeze to death in the cold. Remember the time he ran along the top of a FENCE?

[puppygod]

Originally Posted by Serpentess

Ok - we know that Taiga was in bad condition so thinking that Ryuji is Kitamura was at least possible. However what hits me is... well... you know the situation:
Taiga is missing, there is terrible blizzard, it is dangerous, 3 people going to look for their friend. Suddenly one of them see where she might be.
I might be overthinking it but we have 3 people - they have to go down the hill in blizzard and that IS something dangerous. Following logic they should all go to make it safer or lat one person go back and inform the rest while 2 others are going down.
Making Ryuji go alone was unreasonable. I just get the idea that it was made only to leave the sapce for Taiga's confession.
Not to mention that climbing up with Taiga on his back Ryuji will get tired, sweat, freeze, die... Oh... they won't let him - now when he knows the truth. Episode 22 will start after they get back.

I think you are overthinking it. To me what they did seems quite reasonable, taking situation into consideration. They have no equipment - no harness, ropes etc. There is no way that more people would make it safer. If something is gonna happen to one of them, it's gonna happen and others cannot assist anyway. So - if somebody really have to go down and check - it's better to risk less people. Not to mention, that they quite reasonably decided to call for help. So one person is going to get adults here, one person is staying up on the slope to mark position, and one person is going down to check if there is Taiga down there. As long as they are within call distance, it should work.

Also, Ryuji is badass

[Vexx]

The anime gives the impression that:
1) Minorin went back for the EMTs/skipatrol.
2) Kitamura stayed at the top of the hill to act as a relay.
3) Ryuuji went down to find and render first aid.
That all makes perfect sense from a rescue standpoint. (edit: heh, puppygod won the typing race)

My only problem with the scene was that since it was pretty clear she'd smacked her head/face on the way down, she certainly had a concussion and maybe a skull fracture. He needed to keep her conscious and warm - but moving her (much less bringing her up the hill) could be devastating.

<shrug> I see this sort of omfgwhatrudoing? stuff in anime all the time. Apparently, first aid isn't/wasn't taught to most people in Japan (or perhaps many writers weren't paying attention at safety class or drills).

I'd have written it so that he simply stayed with her to keep her warm and talking and one could assume the ski patrol brought her up the hill properly after the scene was over.

[Tyabann]

How many average teenagers actually know about spinal injuries/the dangers of concussions, though?

[Vexx]

Well.. .any that have gotten first aid training. Most team sports teach it, its not unusual for high schools to teach it, various scouting-type programs teach it, earthquake zone drills teach it - I think even driver's ed teaches a very basic first aid. (all those examples in the US).

However, it doesn't appear as if first aid is common knowledge in Japan or is taught in any structured way even though they're manic about earthquake and tsunami drills. So it goes.... but it'd be nice if anime/manga writers did just a little research since it is a nice source for dispersing the basic minimum data.

Then you could claim educational value

[Tyabann]

Heh.

Ryuuji isn't in any clubs, though... nor do I think he'd be the sort of person to actively seek first-aid training.