Kyoto Animation: Studio discussion, speculation, and whatnot.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

The complaints were raised because KyoAni announced new projects as well as their announcements about no plans for a new Haruhi season. We were expressing an opinion about the direction of the studio. Other people got annoyed at us for raising these concerns, and this is the conversation we have.

No one is stopping you from talking about that stuff but your own selves who can't get off our backs for merely raising concerns and stop pushing people's buttons.

The fact that they went out of their way to specifically state something about that franchise just seems to continue to hint to me that it's more of their ass-backwards marketing. It seems like it's all about subtle manipulation with them. Tell people that there's no new Haruhi, wait a few months, have it quitely air on TV so that when somebody sees it the internet explodes with word of mouth and everybody instantly hits the peak of their anticipation and the hype goes through the roof right as it's airing. Something just really nags at me that this is the case once more like it was with 2009.

[Ithekro]

Well Haruhi seems to be the only series that has managed to get away with that pattern of promotion. I don't see Sunrise being able to pull that off with Gundam without some heads rolling from the fans.

Maybe Type-Moon with one of their Fate series, but even that might not go over well. (Fate/Prototype for example sort of appeared out of nothing with mixed results...but it was with another Type-Moon product, Carnival Phantasm. It didn't just appear in TV randomly)

[Goggen]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

The fact that they went out of their way to specifically state something about that franchise just seems to continue to hint to me that it's more of their ass-backwards marketing.

First off, KyoAni hasn't made any statements regarding Haruhi at all (that I know of). The "no plans" comment came from a random Kadokawa representative. Also, there was no direct quote so the exact wording remains unknown.

Secondly, they did not go "out of their way" to make any statement - unless I'm mistaken, it was a response to a direct question. The same stock response companies always give to inconvenient questions of this nature.

I wouldn't take this as an attempt at marketing. Or anything at all, really.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

It seems like it's all about subtle manipulation with them.

I believe "viral marketing" is the phrase one would normally use for this type of thing, but hey, if you want to phrase it in the most damning way possible, that works. Subtle manipulation, indeed.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Goggen

First off, KyoAni hasn't made any statements regarding Haruhi at all (that I know of). The "no plans" comment came from a random Kadokawa representative. Also, there was no direct quote so the exact wording remains unknown.

Secondly, they did not go "out of their way" to make any statement - unless I'm mistaken, it was a response to a direct question. The same stock response companies always give to inconvenient questions of this nature.

I wouldn't take this as an attempt at marketing. Or anything at all, really.

Normally I wouldn't but then the way Haruhi (2009) happened kind of speaks for itself as to how bizzarely they'll go about promoting the franchise.

I believe "viral marketing" is the phrase one would normally use for this type of thing, but hey, if you want to phrase it in the most damning way possible, that works. Subtle manipulation, indeed.

I think it's just plain bad marketing and treating the fanbase like a bunch free advertising conduits so yeah the intent to be damning is definitely there in this case. I just find the way Kadokawa handles it's marketing to be among the least desirable ways of going about such a thing.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Well Haruhi seems to be the only series that has managed to get away with that pattern of promotion. I don't see Sunrise being able to pull that off with Gundam without some heads rolling from the fans.

Maybe Type-Moon with one of their Fate series, but even that might not go over well. (Fate/Prototype for example sort of appeared out of nothing with mixed results...but it was with another Type-Moon product, Carnival Phantasm. It didn't just appear in TV randomly)

I like how people often treat this like it's a good thing or something to be celebrated. To me it just looks like the definitive example of a fanbase rewarding bad behavior from a producer and it probably wouldn't fly anywhere else with any other fanbase. Make no mistake I do not consider this a good thing at all for either the fans or the company in questions reputation. Also I just plain don't see Sunrise doing something like this period. They're kind of on the opposite side of the spectrum what with just drowning fans in little tidbits, special events for interested parties, and frequent updates as to a projects progress, airtime and scheduling. I kind of see this as the better method of promotion even if it does lead to almost too many spoilers at times. Making the fan feel appreciated, welcomed and like they should be given all the information they desire about an upcoming project of there's...that's pretty generous corporate behavior and probably not all that inexpensive either.

[all_flying]

?
Why silent? Whine more please...

Anyway, KyoAni posted something in their Hyouka website. Something about staff comments on project, but unfortunately I can't read it

[0utf0xZer0]

For the most part, I'm not inclined to read much into the statement - after how Haruhi 2009 backfired on Kadokawa, being low key seems like a logical response.

That said... I can't help but notice ANN only says they deny a third season. Anyone know if the franchise is in a position that would allow for another movie at the moment?

[rulfo]

Originally Posted by Tempester

KyoAni's work on Nichijou proved to me that they can animate action sequences gorgeously. I'd love to see a new straight-out action series from them one day. (I never watched FMP and at this rate I probably never will. Incomplete adaptations of plot-heavy works frustrate me quite a bit these days.)

When I look back and watch Munto(The first two OVAs) KyoAni was really good with explosions. But the fight choreography was pretty generic or nothing mind blowing.

However, in Nichijou, they were being more creative. I would be pleasantly surprised if they pulled an itano circus if FMP is handled by them.

[Skane]

You should check out the combat in FMP!, especially TSR. It's visually painful, like the throat slitting scene.

Cheers.

[rulfo]

Originally Posted by Skane

You should check out the combat in FMP!, especially TSR. It's visually painful, like the throat slitting scene.

Cheers.

Ah damn I remember that throat slitting scene. One of the biggest KyoAni back then KyoAni now comparison I can make. If you were new to KyoAni you'd be shocked to see they pulled off something like that.

On the topic of action. It would be awesome if KyoAni would be doing some action cuts with mecha. The only concern I have with them doing FMP is that do they still have the staff members for doing mecha? Some people who are related with the FMP work might have already left. Ordet breaking off from KyoAni due to Yamakan being fired during Luck Star's airing is another thing.

In any case Kigami is pretty good with explosions so that's safe. But is it bad to hope for them to pull something like this?

[Skane]

Originally Posted by rulfo

~~ In any case Kigami is pretty good with explosions so that's safe. But is it bad to hope for them to pull something like this?

Not counting generic robot mooks, the only other mecha I associate with KyoAni is Big Cytron, which is appropriate given their penchant for WTF-humour sometimes.

Which is why Planetarian is win-win for everyone! Moe mecha! Apocalyptic tear-jerker!

Cheers.

[brocko]

Nano should count as a mech right? She is a robot afterall, might've even shot an odd missle or two throughout Nichijou's run lol

--------------------

On the viral marketing thing. Kadokawa has openly stated that one of the main strategies for Haruhi was unorthodox marketing. It seems unlikely that this tactic will change anytime soon if ever since it has become an almost signature trademark for the franchise. Combine that along with the increasing number of companies who seem to be going more and more nuts with viral marketing techniques and yea it's probably gonna stay with Haruhi a little while more.

2009 was certainly in bad taste, but to be fair the franchise did initially take off from such unorthodox techniques too. If you look at the intial broadcast order, various website shenanigans and of course the Hare Hare Yukai dance (this may've been accidental though, I don't think anyone could've planned nor expected this to blow up as it did lol) among others, they were all things that largely helped in getting the franchise off the ground.

I don't think that they're methods are entirely and completely bad per say, just that 2009 was a bad decision in itself and to be honest I don't think any sort of marketing would've been able to salvage that. But at the same time I can sorta understand the behind-the-scenes type reasoning as to why they went ahead with what they did though.

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

For the most part, I'm not inclined to read much into the statement - after how Haruhi 2009 backfired on Kadokawa, being low key seems like a logical response.

That said... I can't help but notice ANN only says they deny a third season. Anyone know if the franchise is in a position that would allow for another movie at the moment?

I agree that it's probably best to not pay any more attention to that comment.
Content wise and using the wiki chapter list, I'm guestimating that there's 5 more short stories and 3 more main story arcs left that they havn't animated, although one on those main arcs is still ongoing.
Someone whose read past Live A Live please correct me and/or help elaborate more if you can. I'm pretty sure I must've messed some of that up lol

[rulfo]

@skane
I guess you're right... Planetarian did have mecha in them so yeah there'll be some mecha tidbits on key parts. Nano... I thought she was a normal girl?

Regarding the unorthodox marketing on haruhi, it breaks my heart that Gundam 00's BD was released earlier while the wait for disappearance's BD was almost a year. All because they wanted to release it on that particular date. When I slowly realized the date of release and the movie's timeline I was like har har Kadokawa!


Oh well that's that. At least though they weren't that ravaging on the net like other companies.


Man I remember catching haruhi on youtube. The vid stayed for years. First subbers were a.f.k. IIRC. Good times.

[Skane]

Oh yeah... Nano's a bot too, but in terms of moe... Yumemi is leagues ahead of her.

Cheers.

[thirdlc]

I finished the second half of Inoue's interview in the end.

The first half

Spoiler for the second half:

Interviewer: You can't get into the cuteness of K-ON with age?

Inoue: Maybe it's because not of age, but I'm not good at productions like that from the beginning. But I really understand very well that viewers find it comfortable. Yeah I know they gain a passion for it! I would even think KyoAni pleases them too much.

Everyone: (Laughs)

Inoue: Like I said, viewers get used to it. A delicious meal which satisfies viewers even if it is served once every five times, is served each time. You would get sick of Tonkatsu for five days in a row. As they have control over animation, they should have control over a taste of animation.

Interviewer: Would you like to participate in K-ON as an animator?

Inoue: Although I don't think I'm adequate, if I got an offer, I find myself curious to draw it. (Laugh). I think I can make it unexpectedly, but I will have to put so much effort in adapting myself to their style.

If I had to give them a piece of advice, it'd be about the character design of K-ON. I guess they made it voluptuous in a conscious way. Why don't they make every girl give a different feel. I know there are a chubby girl or a flat-chested girl, but can't they present the differences in a bit different form? Same goes for faces. They look alike, even though the outlines and the eyebrows are different. Can't they provide an alternative way for that? Or I wonder if the fans are happy with it?

Interviewer: With regard to the design, since it's an adaptation, I'm sure it has a lot to do with their respect for the original work.

Inoue: Oh, I see. I'd forgotten about the original work. I'm sorry. I was only thinking about the anime.

Interviewer: Speaking of voluptuous, one of K-ON's attractions is, it's voluptuous but not obscene.

Inoue: That's a mysterious point. I wonder if it's because they have many female staff there?

Interviewer: That will be one of the reasons. But there are women who would produce obscene drawings.

Inoue: Yeah. It may be pathetic to buy moe anime, but it's less likely to be pathetic to buy K-ON.

Interviewer: Yes, that's an important point too. It's delicious for otaku, but it doesn't feels geeky very much.

Inoue: Really. Their giving a feeling like they took into account even that kind of thing is the amazing thing about KyoAni. Usually, even if you will aim at it, you have male staff and some of your staff would make a pathetic drawing. I have to praise them having such a thing under control.

Talking of control, I for one find it a shame that every episode's art is too much unified. Being unified is a right thing for a commercial product, but animation is what a large group draw and everyone in the group has their own ideal and aesthetic sense. While I'm impressed, their perfectly coordinated performance makes me want them to ooze each episode staff's characteristics. Their motions concerns me, too. Their acting has a symbolic side.

Interviewer: The readers might not get the meaning of symbolic. It means characters move in patterns.

Inoue: That's it. They desperately often use the pattern of a preliminary action and a back-swaying like I said. I also notice their pattern of swinging hair after the body moves. It certainly gives a feel of careful animation, but it seems everyone aims for such animation. I feel a little uneasy at that. It would improve their animation more if they add more the patterns' variations or bring something like a real human's vividness into a character's acting.

By pattern motions or symbolic motions, I'm not only referring to KyoAni, but the anime industry as a whole including myself. Even within the whole anime industry, few people can bring vividness into acting. Although their works as commercial products are amazing as they are, but it can be possible to bring vividness into works without interfering them. I think KyoAni is able to do it now.

Interviewer: To conclude, I'll ask once again. Is KyoAni the most advanced anime studio ever?

Inoue: Yeah.

Interviewer: Like you said, not only is their quality high, but they reached the stage of accomplishments. Any other studios couldn't do that ever?

Inoue: It is unprecedented. If K-ON had been made 20 years ago, it'd have been a landmark achievement. If I think about what else ever is a match for it from such a viewpoint, it'll be "Heidi, Girl of the Alps", even though the subject matter is very different.

Interviewer: Right. It might be close to "Heidi" or "From the Apennines to the Andes".

Inoue: It might match them. Though their thoughts and subject matter are completely different, in the sense of being made of one aesthetic sense and being of consistent quality, it can match "Heidi" or "From the Apennines to the Andes". What else comes to my mind is "Ganba no Bōken". I want them to expand their work because KyoAni is producing so high performance. They can make it.

(End)

[kyouray]

You're great ! Thanks a lot again.
That's the 1st time I read the term 'symbolic action' (記号化) even if many critics use it. I'm not sure to get it since Inoue's definition looks different from wikipedia's one. Anyways it still is the most interesting part of this half when he talks about unified animation of KyoAni & patterns. It's impressive as he says but that's why it's difficult to recognize individual works excepting some animators (besides their key animation books don't have animators annotations). He may be true about individual own ideal but I think it's one of KyoAni's charm to be so unified. By the way I need to rewatch K-ON to check this pattern theory by my own eyes.

[all_flying]

wow, thanks again thirdlc. Highly appreciate it.

And its funny Inoue didn't mention about "gesture". Since this is the first thing I recognized from KyoAni's style.

[rulfo]

Originally Posted by thirdlc

I finished the second half of Inoue's interview in the end.

The first half

Spoiler for the second half:

Interviewer: You can't get into the cuteness of K-ON with age?

Inoue: Maybe it's because not of age, but I'm not good at productions like that from the beginning. But I really understand very well that viewers find it comfortable. Yeah I know they gain a passion for it! I would even think KyoAni pleases them too much.

Everyone: (Laughs)

Inoue: Like I said, viewers get used to it. A delicious meal which satisfies viewers even if it is served once every five times, is served each time. You would get sick of Tonkatsu for five days in a row. As they have control over animation, they should have control over a taste of animation.

Interviewer: Would you like to participate in K-ON as an animator?

Inoue: Although I don't think I'm adequate, if I got an offer, I find myself curious to draw it. (Laugh). I think I can make it unexpectedly, but I will have to put so much effort in adapting myself to their style.

If I had to give them a piece of advice, it'd be about the character design of K-ON. I guess they made it voluptuous in a conscious way. Why don't they make every girl give a different feel. I know there are a chubby girl or a flat-chested girl, but can't they present the differences in a bit different form? Same goes for faces. They look alike, even though the outlines and the eyebrows are different. Can't they provide an alternative way for that? Or I wonder if the fans are happy with it?

Interviewer: With regard to the design, since it's an adaptation, I'm sure it has a lot to do with their respect for the original work.

Inoue: Oh, I see. I'd forgotten about the original work. I'm sorry. I was only thinking about the anime.

Interviewer: Speaking of voluptuous, one of K-ON's attractions is, it's voluptuous but not obscene.

Inoue: That's a mysterious point. I wonder if it's because they have many female staff there?

Interviewer: That will be one of the reasons. But there are women who would produce obscene drawings.

Inoue: Yeah. It may be pathetic to buy moe anime, but it's less likely to be pathetic to buy K-ON.

Interviewer: Yes, that's an important point too. It's delicious for otaku, but it doesn't feels geeky very much.

Inoue: Really. Their giving a feeling like they took into account even that kind of thing is the amazing thing about KyoAni. Usually, even if you will aim at it, you have male staff and some of your staff would make a pathetic drawing. I have to praise them having such a thing under control.

Talking of control, I for one find it a shame that every episode's art is too much unified. Being unified is a right thing for a commercial product, but animation is what a large group draw and everyone in the group has their own ideal and aesthetic sense. While I'm impressed, their perfectly coordinated performance makes me want them to ooze each episode staff's characteristics. Their motions concerns me, too. Their action has a symbolic side.

Interviewer: The readers might not get the meaning of symbolic. It means characters move in patterns.

Inoue: That's it. They desperately often use the pattern of a preliminary action and a back-swaying like I said. I also notice their pattern to swing hair after the body moves. It certainly gives a feel of careful animation, but it seems everyone aims for such animation. I feel a little uneasy at that. It would improve their animation more if they add more the patterns' variations or bring something like a real human's vividness into a character's action.

By the pattern action or the symbolic action, I'm not only referring to Kyoani, but the anime industry as a whole including myself. Even within the whole anime industry, few people can bring vividness into action. Although their works as commercial products are amazing as they are, but it can be possible to bring vividness into works without interrupting them. I think KyoAni is able to do it now.

Interviewer: To conclude, I'll ask once again. Is KyoAni the most advanced anime studio ever?

Inoue: Yeah.

Interviewer: Like you said, not only is their quality high, but they reached the stage of accomplishments. Any other studios couldn't do that ever?

Inoue: It is unprecedented. If K-ON had been made 20 years ago, it'd have been a landmark achievement. If I think about what else ever is a match for it from such a viewpoint, it'll be "Heidi, Girl of the Alps", even though the subject matter is very different.

Interviewer: Right. It might be close to "Heidi" or "From the Apennines to the Andes".

Inoue: It might match them. Though their thoughts and subject matter are completely different, in the sense of being made of one aesthetic sense and being of consistent quality, it can match "Heidi" or "From the Apennines to the Andes". What else comes to my mind is "Ganba no Bōken". I want them to expand their work because KyoAni is producing so high performance. They can make it.

(End)

I am your slave forever.

j/k

Thanks again!

Spoiler for LOL:

Interviewer: With regard to the design, since it's an adaptation, I'm sure it has a lot to do with their respect for the original work.

Inoue: Oh, I see. I'd forgotten about the original work. I'm sorry. I was only thinking about the anime.

Ahahaha! I dunno if that was a subtle stab at the original source or what.

Originally Posted by kyouray

You're great ! Thanks a lot again.
That's the 1st time I read the term 'symbolic action' (記号化) even if many critics use it. I'm not sure to get it since Inoue's definition looks different from wikipedia's one. Anyways it still is the most interesting part of this half when he talks about unified animation of KyoAni & patterns. It's impressive as he says but that's why it's difficult to recognize individual works excepting some animators (besides their key animation books don't have animators annotations). He may be true about individual own ideal but I think it's one of KyoAni's charm to be so unified. By the way I need to rewatch K-ON to check this pattern theory by my own eyes.

It saddens me that I suck at sensing patterns consciously. Only a couple of animator's I can distinguish in an instant like Yutaka Nakamura, Hironori Tanaka, Hiroyuki Imaishi, etc. But those aren't from KyoAni.

KyoAni's animators, their style is pretty mysterious... Individually... Very had to discern which is whos.

For me at least...

[risingstar3110]

Not sure if it's mentioned before. But how popular is Seitenkan? And is it possible for Kyoani to make this a gold mine so they can tap in and draw out unlimited cashes? (a slice of life version perhaps?)

[Ithekro]

I'm going to assume you are taking about the Haruhi version and not something random.

I don't kow how popular it is presently. More Kyonko and the like fanart does show up though.

Though the question would be...who would they need to talk to to get a story or rights to the character? Would they need any rights? It is a parody of sorts, just a parody that does it straight (mostly).

[thirdlc]

Originally Posted by all_flying

wow, thanks again thirdlc. Highly appreciate it.

And its funny Inoue didn't mention about "gesture". Since this is the first thing I recognized from KyoAni's style.

When he was talking about symbolic action, Inoue had gesture in mind too. If you cannot read it from my translation, it's my fault. Probably, action wasn't the right word to choose. I should have used acting.