AnimeSuki Forums

Arti · 2004-11-05, 00:48

How about making Kage Buunshins and having them use Lotus? The Third used the sealing spell with Kage Buunshins that simply disappeared afterwards, causing no real harm to him.

Perhaps since they're almost completely opposite skills, no ninja is talented enough in both areas to learn them. But use Sharingan to copy them maybe?

katon · 2004-11-05, 00:52

Sharingan cant copy how to "open" the gates. Maybe copy the movements that leads up to the lotus, like what Sasuke did to Lee, copied the kick and stuff, but he certainly cant copy the way he opens the gates.

MysticNinjaJay · 2004-11-05, 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by katon

Sharingan cant copy how to "open" the gates. Maybe copy the movements that leads up to the lotus, like what Sasuke did to Lee, copied the kick and stuff, but he certainly cant copy the way he opens the gates.

Sharingan can't copy progress or bloodlines. If you have a high speed body you can probably copy the gates. If Lee can learn it from Gai there's no reason why Sasuke can't copy it by watching Lee espcially if he were told what he had to do to unlock the gates. Unless we see someone copy say the gates can't be copied its possible. Why did Kakashi take out sharingan to watch Lee unlock the gates even while he was standing still? It was not to keep up with his movements.

raikage · 2004-11-05, 02:00

The simple fact that not everyone can open the Gates should be enough to say that it isn't exactly a copyable jutsu.

MysticNinjaJay · 2004-11-05, 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by raikage

The simple fact that not everyone can open the Gates should be enough to say that it isn't exactly a copyable jutsu.

Can everyone do Zabuza's Mizu bunshin?The gates require 1. a high speed taijustu body 2. Someone to teach you how to unlock the restraints on your mind. Sasuke has one. And with Kakashi he has the other. But without Kakashi he has sharingan, which allows you to copy all manner of ninjutsu,genjtsu and taijutsu. The gates being taijutsu. Some people asked "Why didn't Kakashi know Lee opened the first gate already but was shocked to see the second gate open?". Perhpas he didn't realize Lee opened that gate, its not very noticable. Once he saw Lee's speed take a dramtic increase when he looked beat he mentioned the gates (almost as if by reputation as though he was not completly familar with them). So who has an answer to my question? Why did Kakashi take out his sharingan on Lee?

gunners2787 · 2004-11-05, 02:31

I think the reason Kakashi takes out his Sharingan on Lee because normal eye vision would have problem seeing the speed that Lee has developed... his movement is so freaking fast the Gaara's "Phase-Shift" cannot react in time... during the fight... Gaara was like "delayed" or "lagging" LOL.... by the way.. did Hyuuga respect Lee after that fight with Gaara? Not quite sure though...

So far..only Naruto did a "Combo Jutsu" move... that is the one when he was underwater... he Kage Bunshin-ed and used Rasengan... OMG! was that great or what! the sea was like having a large whirlpool! By the way, if you Kage-Bunshin-ed and use Lotus... it's kinda hard to hit the opponent as there was only 1 opponent.... let's say if you use 2 Bunshin and then you use lotus... what you hit is just 1 opponent and 1 damage... Remember the laws of Momentum?
when 2 things hit together... with different speed.. at the end.. the 2 things will merge and have only 1 speed.... or... the 2 things will separate and have 2 different speed.. i think Lotus is the first...

Lotus also requires a lot of muscle strength.. which Sasuke or other Chuunin don't have.... Gai once said if you used Lotus... then you body must be put in Full Rest condition until everything recovers... If you Bunshin-ed and used Lotus.. that means you are using double the strength because Bunshin is also part of the real self's Chakra... that means... in order to do that... One must have extreme physical attributes... Well, that is only what i think....

About opening the doors, i think when Lee opened Far more "doors" then Gai expected.. Gai was a lil` shocked? if i remembered it correctly... If Gai is shocked by that.. that means.. opening the doors require extreme hard training and integrity ... remember how Lee trains? *If i cannot do 100 push-ups, I'll do 200 sand-bags, If i cannot do 200 sand-bags, I'll do 300 pumpings* LOL, other than that... you'll need a crazy sensei like GAI.. remember when he lost the "Rock, Paper, Scissor" game with Kakashi? Oh hell yea... he did what he promised if he lost!

MysticNinjaJay · 2004-11-05, 02:54

Thats plausible but I don't think Kakashi took out sharingan so he could see a show. everyone else had to see with their naked eye. As far as muscle strength plenty of Genin have it, Lotus unlocks the limiters in your brain that give your muscles a higher percentage of their maximum strength. It is said that your brain only allows you to use 10% muscle strength and too much more can cause them to rip, thats what happened to Lee. Perhaps moves like Kage Bunshin and the Eight Celestial Gates are too complicated for the sharingan to just copy or maybe Sasuke chooses not to copy Naruto signature move to use against him out of pride. He probably could not use too many Kagebunshin with his level of chakra anyway. He's good but Naruto is a stamina freak. The 3rd Hokage was able to combine different types of elemental attacks to create an original super move. He really impressed the ANBU with that and Orochimaru said they were just playing around when he did that so being able to combine jutsu and create combos is a stroke of genius.

fzz · 2004-11-05, 03:14

what be a more intresting discussion is to give an answer on his first question
"can a clone from kage bunshin do a lotus?"

imo no, cause when lee does his first lotus vs gaara, he does those continues kicks cause he cant get him high enough.. u can already see that lee is suffering from the pain (thats also where gaara uses his jutsu)
and a bunshin explodes when struck.. so u can say he just poofs away in the combo..

BUT if we assume that he gets his opponent high enough with a single kick (like he kicked dosu and sasuke) its a different matter, cause i THINK he will only suffer when he hits the ground at the end of the combo... so maybe its possible..

but the whole jutsu(?) is a forbidden one, so i dont know if he only suffers when he hits the ground.. or has pain the whole combo, from begin till end..

Wisely · 2004-11-05, 03:25

I was thinking of Kage bunshin + Kage Mane + commit suicide...

Most combination we can think of now required a clone due to our lack of knowledge of all jutsus...

How about a kage bunshin clone + the red pill.... Hmmmm?

Fei-san · 2004-11-05, 03:42

With kagemane the best place would be a cliff, just make sure they are closer to the cliff then you are

MysticNinjaJay · 2004-11-05, 03:50

Wait what the hell are we talking about here? Naruto's combo is basically a copy of Sasuke's Lion Combo which rips its technique off of Lotus.

So if Lee or someone used Kagebunshin and Lotus together yeah I'd say the can definetly pull it off, on multiple opponents simultaneously even, as long as they don't get hit.

The user would be threashed afterwards though. Lotus AND Kage Bunshin? That would be exhausting. Naruto could probably do it if he learned Lotus though it would be hard for him to learn it and would not be easy to master.

katon · 2004-11-05, 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

Sharingan can't copy progress

Quote:

If Lee can learn it from Gai there's no reason why Sasuke can't copy it by watching Lee espcially if he were told what he had to do to unlock the gates.

Copy what? The "process/steps" in how to opening the gates or the "process" as in kick, shadow leaf dance, spin, etc. ? Sasuke can copy the steps to do the lotus, but i doubt he can just watch-and-learn how to do "open" the gates with his sharingan. Opening the gates is within the body, not using seals or whateva, so how can sharingan "see" what's happening inside? Even if it can see inside, it certainly wont see "why" this is happening or how can he do this, etc.

Quote:

Why did Kakashi take out sharingan to watch Lee unlock the gates even while he was standing still? It was not to keep up with his movements.

Where does it say the reason he took out his Sharingan? I must've missed it, where?

Animizzle · 2004-11-05, 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

Can everyone do Zabuza's Mizu bunshin?The gates require 1. a high speed taijustu body 2. Someone to teach you how to unlock the restraints on your mind. Sasuke has one. And with Kakashi he has the other. But without Kakashi he has sharingan, which allows you to copy all manner of ninjutsu,genjtsu and taijutsu. The gates being taijutsu. Some people asked "Why didn't Kakashi know Lee opened the first gate already but was shocked to see the second gate open?". Perhpas he didn't realize Lee opened that gate, its not very noticable. Once he saw Lee's speed take a dramtic increase when he looked beat he mentioned the gates (almost as if by reputation as though he was not completly familar with them). So who has an answer to my question? Why did Kakashi take out his sharingan on Lee?

First off, where is it said you specifiaclly need a high speed taijutsu body? I mean, it is best for executing the Lotus, but is it a requirement?

They do speak about " the ability" what ability is required to be able to open the gates? not clear. What is clear is that not everybody can do it by just telling them how to, since kakashi was greatly impressed and called him a " genius of hard work"

Secondly, I think Kakashi did take his Sharingan out to track his movement. As everyone knows the Sharingan cannot see the inner chakra flow. So taking it our for that unlikely, what's left is tracking his movement, which Sharingan happends to be best at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

Thats plausible but I don't think Kakashi took out sharingan so he could see a show. everyone else had to see with their naked eye.

Actually, they barely saw it with their naked eye. Most specators could't even catch up with his movements when he took of his weigths, let alone after opening the gates.

Kakashi knew what the gates would do, so he took out his sharingan hoping he would be able to follow his movement..Quite simple really,

The confusion is understandable because right after he takes out his sharingan they jump to the gate explanation as if to imply the sharingan can "see" the gates. Not the case.

2004-11-05, 00:48	Link #1
Arti Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	Possible Jutsu Combo? How about making Kage Buunshins and having them use Lotus? The Third used the sealing spell with Kage Buunshins that simply disappeared afterwards, causing no real harm to him. Perhaps since they're almost completely opposite skills, no ninja is talented enough in both areas to learn them. But use Sharingan to copy them maybe?

2004-11-05, 00:52	Link #2
katon Some random dude Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Canada	Sharingan cant copy how to "open" the gates. Maybe copy the movements that leads up to the lotus, like what Sasuke did to Lee, copied the kick and stuff, but he certainly cant copy the way he opens the gates. __________________ Lost in Life. __________________

2004-11-05, 02:00	Link #4
raikage 日本語を食べません！ Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: San Francisco Age: 41	The simple fact that not everyone can open the Gates should be enough to say that it isn't exactly a copyable jutsu.

2004-11-05, 02:31	Link #6
gunners2787 Lok-ke Hokage Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Land Of Fire, Konoha Village Age: 37	I think the reason Kakashi takes out his Sharingan on Lee because normal eye vision would have problem seeing the speed that Lee has developed... his movement is so freaking fast the Gaara's "Phase-Shift" cannot react in time... during the fight... Gaara was like "delayed" or "lagging" LOL.... by the way.. did Hyuuga respect Lee after that fight with Gaara? Not quite sure though... So far..only Naruto did a "Combo Jutsu" move... that is the one when he was underwater... he Kage Bunshin-ed and used Rasengan... OMG! was that great or what! the sea was like having a large whirlpool! By the way, if you Kage-Bunshin-ed and use Lotus... it's kinda hard to hit the opponent as there was only 1 opponent.... let's say if you use 2 Bunshin and then you use lotus... what you hit is just 1 opponent and 1 damage... Remember the laws of Momentum? when 2 things hit together... with different speed.. at the end.. the 2 things will merge and have only 1 speed.... or... the 2 things will separate and have 2 different speed.. i think Lotus is the first... Lotus also requires a lot of muscle strength.. which Sasuke or other Chuunin don't have.... Gai once said if you used Lotus... then you body must be put in Full Rest condition until everything recovers... If you Bunshin-ed and used Lotus.. that means you are using double the strength because Bunshin is also part of the real self's Chakra... that means... in order to do that... One must have extreme physical attributes... Well, that is only what i think.... About opening the doors, i think when Lee opened Far more "doors" then Gai expected.. Gai was a lil` shocked? if i remembered it correctly... If Gai is shocked by that.. that means.. opening the doors require extreme hard training and integrity ... remember how Lee trains? If i cannot do 100 push-ups, I'll do 200 sand-bags, If i cannot do 200 sand-bags, I'll do 300 pumpings LOL, other than that... you'll need a crazy sensei like GAI.. remember when he lost the "Rock, Paper, Scissor" game with Kakashi? Oh hell yea... he did what he promised if he lost!

2004-11-05, 02:54	Link #7
MysticNinjaJay Ninja Emperor Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 38	Thats plausible but I don't think Kakashi took out sharingan so he could see a show. everyone else had to see with their naked eye. As far as muscle strength plenty of Genin have it, Lotus unlocks the limiters in your brain that give your muscles a higher percentage of their maximum strength. It is said that your brain only allows you to use 10% muscle strength and too much more can cause them to rip, thats what happened to Lee. Perhaps moves like Kage Bunshin and the Eight Celestial Gates are too complicated for the sharingan to just copy or maybe Sasuke chooses not to copy Naruto signature move to use against him out of pride. He probably could not use too many Kagebunshin with his level of chakra anyway. He's good but Naruto is a stamina freak. The 3rd Hokage was able to combine different types of elemental attacks to create an original super move. He really impressed the ANBU with that and Orochimaru said they were just playing around when he did that so being able to combine jutsu and create combos is a stroke of genius.

2004-11-05, 03:14	Link #8
fzz Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Holland	what be a more intresting discussion is to give an answer on his first question "can a clone from kage bunshin do a lotus?" imo no, cause when lee does his first lotus vs gaara, he does those continues kicks cause he cant get him high enough.. u can already see that lee is suffering from the pain (thats also where gaara uses his jutsu) and a bunshin explodes when struck.. so u can say he just poofs away in the combo.. BUT if we assume that he gets his opponent high enough with a single kick (like he kicked dosu and sasuke) its a different matter, cause i THINK he will only suffer when he hits the ground at the end of the combo... so maybe its possible.. but the whole jutsu(?) is a forbidden one, so i dont know if he only suffers when he hits the ground.. or has pain the whole combo, from begin till end..

2004-11-05, 03:25	Link #9
Wisely Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The place where you believe I live Age: 38	I was thinking of Kage bunshin + Kage Mane + commit suicide... Most combination we can think of now required a clone due to our lack of knowledge of all jutsus... How about a kage bunshin clone + the red pill.... Hmmmm?

2004-11-05, 03:42	Link #10
Fei-san Monkeykyou Sharingan Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Schweden, ja! Age: 35	With kagemane the best place would be a cliff, just make sure they are closer to the cliff then you are

2004-11-05, 03:50	Link #11
MysticNinjaJay Ninja Emperor Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 38	Wait what the hell are we talking about here? Naruto's combo is basically a copy of Sasuke's Lion Combo which rips its technique off of Lotus. So if Lee or someone used Kagebunshin and Lotus together yeah I'd say the can definetly pull it off, on multiple opponents simultaneously even, as long as they don't get hit. The user would be threashed afterwards though. Lotus AND Kage Bunshin? That would be exhausting. Naruto could probably do it if he learned Lotus though it would be hard for him to learn it and would not be easy to master.