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Thunder Book · 2010-12-23, 05:59

Yeah I think we all need to remember that Kinzo IS FREAKING INSANE. Just think of all the crazy stuff this guy does.

witchfan · 2010-12-23, 09:02

I'll imagine he did. It's not uncommon for people who've suffered so much to come up with their own interpretation of reality, especially when deep regret is involved. But really, what happened then is as much a catbox as Rokkenjima. Unless we get some reds or someone 'opens' it, the truth is anyone's guess.

Vylen · 2010-12-23, 12:08

Sorta makes you wonder if he stole Beatrice back then as well...

Ronove · 2010-12-23, 12:16

Sorry if this has been mentioned in the past but ...

If Yasu/ShKanon/Beatrice is exactly true (which it is, I'm sure of it), then what of the relationship with Jessica and Kanon, and George and Shannon? Is it all 'an illusion'?

Plus, I suppose ShKanon/Yasu/Beatrice would have 'snapped
after George's proposal...

Unless it's all fake, for some odd reason.

KazePT · 2010-12-23, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronove

Sorry if this has been mentioned in the past but ...

If Yasu/ShKanon/Beatrice is exactly true (which it is, I'm sure of it), then what of the relationship with Jessica and Kanon, and George and Shannon? Is it all 'an illusion'?

Plus, I suppose ShKanon/Yasu/Beatrice would have 'snapped
after George's proposal...

Unless it's all fake, for some odd reason.

Those relations could be an addition for the crazy stuff that is going on in Yasu's mind.
All "personas" have a different love, and that would explain the battle where Furfur and Zepar could only grant "one successful" love for the three pairs.

Meaning: For Yasu, all of those loves must be "true" because the three of them "exists" in 'her' world.
Oh well...

Axilios · 2010-12-23, 12:41

Just in case, according to Ryukishi, Shannon ang George really love each other. Nothing has been said about this with Jessica/Kanon, but given the leitmotiv of umineko I hope/suppose that it is also "true".

Tyabann · 2010-12-23, 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axilios

Just in case, according to Ryukishi, Shannon ang George really love each other.

He's 'embellishing the truth' here. He does that quite a bit in interviews, mostly to set up twists that would be obvious otherwise.

TehChron · 2010-12-23, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

He's 'embellishing the truth' here. He does that quite a bit in interviews, mostly to set up twists that would be obvious otherwise.

If 'Shannon' and 'George' are just third order fictional characters anyway, then that really isn't an embellishment at all, but more like he's just mocking those that haven't come to that conclusion.

Either one of those is kind of rude, though.

Mcjon01 · 2010-12-23, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vylen

Sorta makes you wonder if he stole Beatrice back then as well...

Kind of puts a slightly less romantic spin on all that "I'm gonna kidnap you!" talk, doesn't it?

Tyabann · 2010-12-23, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by TehChron

Either one of those is kind of rude, though.

This is the man who spent interviews prior to Ep4's release hinting that Umineko had no solution and was just a meaningless waste of time.

TehChron · 2010-12-23, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

This is the man who spent interviews prior to Ep4's release hinting that Umineko had no solution and was just a meaningless waste of time.

And also went through the trouble of explicitly insulting a large portion of his fanbase in Episode 6.

AuraTwilight · 2010-12-23, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder Book

Yeah I think we all need to remember that Kinzo IS FREAKING INSANE. Just think of all the crazy stuff this guy does.

Except no, he isn't. You're confusing Kinzo with the WAHAHAHA GOLDSMITH fantasy.

TehChron · 2010-12-23, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Except no, he isn't. You're confusing Kinzo with the WAHAHAHA GOLDSMITH fantasy.

*ahem*

Clock bombs? Epitaph riddles? Wincest?

I would say we can reasonably conclude those are not the actions of a man in his right mind.

Witch of Uncertainty · 2010-12-23, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Except no, he isn't. You're confusing Kinzo with the WAHAHAHA GOLDSMITH fantasy.

He went insane after Bice's death. Not do the OH DESIRE degree, but getting a child with your child is not a lot of sane people do.
After Beatrice II's death, he went mad with grief, I would say. He seemed to pretty much hate his family too.

Vylen · 2010-12-23, 19:22

Oh...

This has probably been brought up before but...

That "memory" of Battler telling Yasu the type of girl he likes; where does that fit into the timeline?

While Yasu is simply embellishing her story with fantasy, there's truth amongst all that and there doesn't seem to be place where that memory fits in... unless, I'm missing something?

Qilin · 2010-12-23, 20:01

Huh. I've finally finished it.

The main story was sort bland. It ended a little too cleanly for my tastes, though the obvious hints to the killer's identity were pretty good.

The real awesomeness takes place in the tea parties. I was getting tired of all the funeral nonsense in the main story, so I'm glad to see the game board we're all so familiar with once again. But as usual, everything turns to tragedy soon enough.

Bern really knows how to liven up a party, with a scythe and an army of cats. As promised in the previous EP, she rips out a few guts, so I'm glad.

Bern just keeps getting more and more awesome in Chiru.

Anyway, I don't know if its been mentioned, but Battler and (fake) Beato's relationship in the 6th arc is eerily similar to the relationship of Kinzo and the Kuwadorian Beatrice.

Judoh · 2010-12-23, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vylen

Oh...

This has probably been brought up before but...

That "memory" of Battler telling Yasu the type of girl he likes; where does that fit into the timeline?

While Yasu is simply embellishing her story with fantasy, there's truth amongst all that and there doesn't seem to be place where that memory fits in... unless, I'm missing something?

They kind of left that unexplained didn't they? Like a lot of things in episode 6. It was mentioned though.

I assume it was the same year he made his promise and we just weren't shown it again.

Jan-Poo · 2010-12-23, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vylen

Oh...

This has probably been brought up before but...

That "memory" of Battler telling Yasu the type of girl he likes; where does that fit into the timeline?

While Yasu is simply embellishing her story with fantasy, there's truth amongst all that and there doesn't seem to be place where that memory fits in... unless, I'm missing something?

Obviously that happened in 1980 or a year before that.

I don't see any inconsistency with this. Beatrice only took the shape of the kind of woman that Battler likes the most after the second world change in 1983. Before that Yasu/Beatrice didn't have any reason to take such a shape.

Vylen · 2010-12-23, 23:09

Yea, i think you're right... It's easier to think of the what we saw as being a memory of a memory instead. We're being shown her remembering when she asked Battler what type of woman she likes and then her passing it on to Beatrice right at that moment.

That makes sense right? heh

KanonTheFurniture · 2010-12-23, 23:58

Okay...okay... *panting*

I finished EP7. Before I stagger off to bed, I need to ask. I know Ryukishi/Hachijo/Featherine/whatever would be disappointed in me, but here goes.

Can someone give a coherent list of 'translations' for Will's solutions to Clair's mysteries? I grasped a few of them, but the majority just confused me even more. Help?

2010-12-23, 12:08	Link #2263
Vylen Apprentice Sorcerer Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Where the Kangaroos Cry.	Sorta makes you wonder if he stole Beatrice back then as well... __________________

2010-12-23, 12:16	Link #2264
Ronove Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009	Sorry if this has been mentioned in the past but ... If Yasu/ShKanon/Beatrice is exactly true (which it is, I'm sure of it), then what of the relationship with Jessica and Kanon, and George and Shannon? Is it all 'an illusion'? Plus, I suppose ShKanon/Yasu/Beatrice would have 'snapped after George's proposal... Unless it's all fake, for some odd reason. __________________

2010-12-23, 19:22	Link #2275
Vylen Apprentice Sorcerer Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Where the Kangaroos Cry.	Oh... This has probably been brought up before but... That "memory" of Battler telling Yasu the type of girl he likes; where does that fit into the timeline? While Yasu is simply embellishing her story with fantasy, there's truth amongst all that and there doesn't seem to be place where that memory fits in... unless, I'm missing something? __________________

2010-12-23, 20:01	Link #2276
Qilin Romanticist Join Date: Aug 2009 Age: 33	Huh. I've finally finished it. The main story was sort bland. It ended a little too cleanly for my tastes, though the obvious hints to the killer's identity were pretty good. The real awesomeness takes place in the tea parties. I was getting tired of all the funeral nonsense in the main story, so I'm glad to see the game board we're all so familiar with once again. But as usual, everything turns to tragedy soon enough. Bern really knows how to liven up a party, with a scythe and an army of cats. As promised in the previous EP, she rips out a few guts, so I'm glad. Bern just keeps getting more and more awesome in Chiru. Anyway, I don't know if its been mentioned, but Battler and (fake) Beato's relationship in the 6th arc is eerily similar to the relationship of Kinzo and the Kuwadorian Beatrice. __________________ "There’s an up higher than up, but at the very top, down is all there is."

2010-12-23, 23:09	Link #2279
Vylen Apprentice Sorcerer Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Where the Kangaroos Cry.	Yea, i think you're right... It's easier to think of the what we saw as being a memory of a memory instead. We're being shown her remembering when she asked Battler what type of woman she likes and then her passing it on to Beatrice right at that moment. That makes sense right? heh __________________

2010-12-23, 05:59	Link #2261
Thunder Book Endless Member Join Date: Oct 2009	Yeah I think we all need to remember that Kinzo IS FREAKING INSANE. Just think of all the crazy stuff this guy does.

2010-12-23, 09:02	Link #2262
witchfan Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010	I'll imagine he did. It's not uncommon for people who've suffered so much to come up with their own interpretation of reality, especially when deep regret is involved. But really, what happened then is as much a catbox as Rokkenjima. Unless we get some reds or someone 'opens' it, the truth is anyone's guess.

2010-12-23, 12:41	Link #2266
Axilios Golden penguin Join Date: Aug 2008	Just in case, according to Ryukishi, Shannon ang George really love each other. Nothing has been said about this with Jessica/Kanon, but given the leitmotiv of umineko I hope/suppose that it is also "true".

2010-12-23, 23:58	Link #2280
KanonTheFurniture Witch's Golden Breaker Join Date: Sep 2009	Okay...okay... panting I finished EP7. Before I stagger off to bed, I need to ask. I know Ryukishi/Hachijo/Featherine/whatever would be disappointed in me, but here goes. Can someone give a coherent list of 'translations' for Will's solutions to Clair's mysteries? I grasped a few of them, but the majority just confused me even more. Help? __________________ 目をつぶり　思い出す　君との日々を　背中合わせ　影のように　僕は生きた…