2013-04-23, 19:48 | Link #801 | |
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2013-04-24, 05:57 | Link #802 | |
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2013-04-24, 09:35 | Link #803 | |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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Rand Paul: No drones flip-flop
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...ton-90551.html Quote:
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2013-04-24, 09:59 | Link #804 | ||
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Has he seen how POWERFUL those damn things are?
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2013-04-24, 14:28 | Link #806 | ||||||||
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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Reducing poverty should reduce gun violence by reducing violence overall. However, reducing the number of guns in circulation reduces the number of gun-related injuries and deaths. It's horribly obvious, and real-world data supports that notion. Quote:
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Simply put, a physician who is making baseless diagnoses that their gun-owning patients have mental health issues in an effort to have their firearms taken away is committing fraud in addition to acting unprofessionally and unethically. They are opening themselves up to easy lawsuits from their patients, and they would be making it very easy for the state medical board to knock them out. I don't think you'll find many people who are passionate enough about anything to risk torpedoing their careers, and when it comes to the gun debate, those who are for firearms tend to be more passionate than those who are against firearms. Interestingly, nobody is voicing concerns that pro-gun physicians might lighten up a diagnosis on anyone who really might be mentally ill just so that they could buy a firearm. Quote:
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No, it wouldn't. Further, if you're going to the pediatrician with your young child then asking about firearms in order to remind you about safely storing them away would seem like a good idea.
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2013-04-24, 14:59 | Link #807 |
blinded by blood
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I'm sorry, but if I took my (hypothetical) child to a pediatrician and they asked out of the fucking blue whether or not I owned any guns I would tell them to go fuck themselves and go find another doctor. If they asked about my sexual habits I would be very tempted to kick their ass out their own window.
That is none of their god-damn business.
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2013-04-24, 15:05 | Link #808 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2013-04-24, 15:18 | Link #810 |
blinded by blood
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I don't own guns. I had to sell them to pay for groceries and bills when I still lived in Oklahoma, after the 2008 crash.
I also don't live in Berkeley anymore. I live in a much worse neighborhood in Oakland. I hear gunshots at night at least twice a week. I don't go out after dark, especially not alone. One of my roommates' cars was broken into a week after he moved in. Where I live isn't what you'd call "safe," but what can I do about it? It's apparently more moral to simply be shot to death than it is to defend yourself.
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2013-04-24, 15:25 | Link #811 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I'll be less skeptical when the pediatrician also asks about - household chemicals, power tools, lawn mowers, gasoline, electric outlets, access to knives, household steps & stairways, access to driveway and streets, proper car seats and how to use them .... all the things that actually kill or injure more children.
No question that guns should require training - *everyone* should get that training whether they plan to own a gun or not. Demystify them, make them boring.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2013-04-24 at 15:42. |
2013-04-24, 15:44 | Link #812 | ||
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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You have the right to refuse answers to any question, of course, but your apparent rage is way out of line. Quote:
Consider this: most of the things that you mentioned already have warning labels covering a good portion of the product. Most people do not read the labels in detail, but their presence is enough to indicate to most people that these are not things to be ingested or played with. Additionally, many of the items that you've mentioned lead to injuries, but not to death. A pediatrician doesn't have hours to spend with each patient, and safety surrounding many of these objects is common sense for many people. Given limited time you go for the highest-yield thing you can, and guns are certainly a valid thing to ask about. Their harming power is greater than anything else you can find in the home, and the news stories about children killing other children or adults with a firearm that was left loaded and easily accessible are unfortunately not that rare. The paranoia surrounding physicians in this thread is pretty surprising. Then again, just as we say that "think of the children" is an argument that causes many people to shut down all reasoning, the topic of firearms seems to have a similar effect.
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2013-04-24, 15:51 | Link #813 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Actually, yeah. Car accidents are the most likely way for children to die. (The chart defines a "child" as anyone from 0-19yrs. gotta watch for that, I've found bogus statistics that define anyone under 25yrs as a child to hype numbers, or say "child" when they should be saying pre-pubescents)
http://www.childdeathreview.org/nati...talitydata.htm Doctors are not scientists. I have to repeat that a lot. They also are not necessarily great statisticians. They're often not even very good at pharmacology though they're the ones who write prescriptions. They have biases, like anyone. None of that writes doctors as a group off but it means doctors vary. We have doctors who refuse to provide medically necessary abortions or prescribe birth control pills after all. I agree about the warning labels (though application is inconsistent and sometimes approaches rank idiocy "do not immerse toaster in water") - that's why I think everyone should get gun safety training. Know how they work, know how to handle them safely, know what they can and cannot do, etc). I'm the guy that thinks everyone who owns a gun should also be required to be part of the community Civil Defense corp like we had in the Cold War days, so I'm not exactly 'extremist' on the issue.
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2013-04-24, 16:00 | Link #814 | ||
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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2013-04-24, 16:04 | Link #815 |
blinded by blood
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I'll say it again.
Give me a personal energy shield that renders me impervious to high-energy projectiles, and I'll support you. Until then, the only thing a gun control advocate means is that they consider the life of a criminal more important than my life, the life of a law-abiding citizen.
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2013-04-24, 16:09 | Link #816 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Yes, a mortality rate of 8.1 versus a combined firearm total mortality rate of 3.7. There's some nuance difference between "second most likely", "over 200% more likely to die in a car accident", and whatever other arm waving language comes to mind in either direction.
I don't personally object to a doctor asking about firearms as part of asking about the general safety skill check of a parent. Here again, I advocate *all* people get trained in firearm safety. We have far too many people - be they gun owners ranging to fearful of guns who just don't have basic knowledge on the subject. I got training from my parents, I got training in the Boy Scouts, I got training when I applied for a carry permit. Everyone should get that training. Even if someone loathes guns for whatever reason, knowledge of guns and gun safety could prove useful in any situation where guns are a factor.
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2013-04-24, 16:11 | Link #817 | |
=^^=
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 45
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Yea, I'm amused by those who bring up cars to the gun debate. Cars have all these layers upon layers of regulation in order to operate and own one. Of course, the main backbone of that stems on liability. If two people (or more) end up in an accident, it comes down to the moron, who 'caused it in the first place.
In addition, infrastructure is engineered to ensure that the roads are as safe as possible, although improvements can be made in various places. Quote:
As a bonus, anyone involved in this Civil Defense corp. is exempt from being deployed overseas. However, sorry, no benefits like free college and stuff like that - gotta keep the pot sweet for the military. Yet, some kind of benefit should still be available; don't know what though. To think, for Boston, instead of keeping certain people at home, some could have been used to establish a stronger perimeter, while the FBI/police handle the fugitive tracking. Add gun licensing too. Yea, sure, there's the argument of: "I don't want the government to have information on me." Well, government already does; just whip out that driver's license.
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2013-04-24, 16:11 | Link #818 |
blinded by blood
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I think there would be a lot less people fearful of guns if they had to get some sort of training with them. If they'd understand that no, guns are not cursed artifacts that infuse their wielder with the urge to slaughter all who oppose them. If they learn that guns are just like hammers, knives, screwdrivers, computers or pneumatic wrenches--tools, designed to aid us in some task or another.
It's not friggin' Frostmourne, okay? It's not going to turn you into a death knight and force you to wipe out entire towns.
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2013-04-24, 16:13 | Link #819 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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So the question isn't just your life vs that of a criminal. It's also your life vs that of the next guy who, for one reason or another, sets off your hair trigger temper. |
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2013-04-24, 16:14 | Link #820 | |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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I agree with everything else you said.
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